From: Tran Tuan Anh
Subject: LISP for beginner
Date: 
Message-ID: <ed89f8f2.0303290112.4a856aaf@posting.google.com>
Hi all:

I learned Scheme in my first year at university. Now I am leaving
school, and want to learn LISP seriously.

After spending few hours suffing net, I still cannot get info I
needed.
It seems there are too many versions of Lisp, too many Lisp systems..

What I want to know is:

- What is the main "versions" of LIsp? as I understand they are Common
Lisp, Scheme... so what are the differences?
- Which free compilers/intepreters I can get ?
- How's about libraries?

It is really easier to start with Python or Perl since there is a
single site to get all info for beginners..

Thanks a lot!
Tuan Anh

From: Edi Weitz
Subject: Re: LISP for beginner
Date: 
Message-ID: <87znneqy2m.fsf@bird.agharta.de>
·····@hotmail.com (Tran Tuan Anh) writes:

> - What is the main "versions" of LIsp? as I understand they are
> Common Lisp, Scheme... so what are the differences?

Scheme was developed for teaching and is focused on being "clean" and
small. There are a couple of Scheme implementations out there which
offer much more than the standard but their extensions are just that -
not in the standard. So you're bound to this particular implementation
if you use its extensions.

Common Lisp is a big language with an ANSI standard and is generally
considered (at least in this newsgroup) to be much better suited for
"real world" tasks.

Other Lisp dialects include Emacs Lisp, Autolisp, Xlisp, ...

> - Which free compilers/intepreters I can get ?

  <http://www-jcsu.jesus.cam.ac.uk/~csr21/lispfaq.html#AEN58>

For learning the free trial versions of commercial vendors might also
be very helpful:

  <http://www-jcsu.jesus.cam.ac.uk/~csr21/lispfaq.html#AEN59>

> - How's about libraries?

The commercial implementations already include lots of libraries. A
good starting point to look for free libraries and other stuff is

  <http://www.cliki.net/>

To find online documentation and tutorials look at the list at the
bottom of

  <http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/>

> It is really easier to start with Python or Perl since there is a
> single site to get all info for beginners..

Sure. But that it's easier to start with them doesn't necessarily mean
that they're the better solution in the long run. They're not if you
ask me...:)

Edi.
From: Tran Tuan Anh
Subject: Re: LISP for beginner
Date: 
Message-ID: <ed89f8f2.0303300541.3ee748e5@posting.google.com>
Thanks all for your prompt replies! (I got a lot replies directly to my mailbox)
From: Kaz Kylheku
Subject: Re: LISP for beginner
Date: 
Message-ID: <cf333042.0303311210.71a25780@posting.google.com>
·····@hotmail.com (Tran Tuan Anh) wrote in message news:<····························@posting.google.com>...
> Hi all:
> 
> I learned Scheme in my first year at university. Now I am leaving
> school, and want to learn LISP seriously.
> 
> After spending few hours suffing net, I still cannot get info I
> needed.
> It seems there are too many versions of Lisp, too many Lisp systems..

The problem is that people still use the word ``Lisp'' to denote
``anyn programming language which uses lots of parentheses and has a
CONS function''.

Within this definition, you can invent just about anything whatsoever,
which has next to nothing to do with anything else that also fits that
definition!

Imagine if the names of the languages C, C++, Java, PostScript or TeX
all included the word ``Curly'' which denoted ``any programming
language with curly braces indicating block structure''.

Then you might be posting this question to a ``comp.lang.curly''
newsgroup:

   I want to learn Curly, but there are too many versions,
   too many Curly systems. C Curly, C++ Curly, Java Curly,
   PostScript Curly, sheesh! Can't these Curly people standardize
   on one thing?.

I will simplify it for you. There is one surviving dialect of the Lisp
language; that dialect is called Common Lisp and has an ANSI standard.

Then there is a language called Scheme which has little to do with
Lisp, other than that it has a CONS function and parentheses, and a
few other similarities. The people who invented Scheme were
intelligent enough and foreseeing enough not to give it a name that
contains ``Lisp'' as a substring, because they realized that their
invention was a significant new language in its own right, but many
users have still not picked up on that clue a quarter century later.
Scheme is standardized by a document called the Revised Report on
Scheme. These documents are versioned, and often referred to by
acronyms, like R4RS means version 4 of the report, R5RS means version
5. For some unexplained reasons, a few Schemers have an emotional
problem which flares up whenever someone dares suggest that Scheme is
not Lisp; and some of these Schemers are in teaching positions, so
that their students end up believing that they are learning Lisp, or
even that they are learning a ``better'' or ``cleaner'' Lisp.

Anyway, everything else which has Lisp in its name is just some
programming language whose programs have lots of parentheses, and
maybe which has some built-in list processing with perhaps even a
function called CONS for making lists out of atoms. Many of these
languages are just manifested in a single implementation.