XANALYS ANNOUNCES THE RELEASE OF LISPWORKS FOR MACINTOSH 4.3
June 30, 2003, Waltham, MA. LispWorks, the portable ANSI Common Lisp
integrated development tool from Xanalys, is available for the Macintosh
platform.
Xanalys's powerful CAPI graphical libraries are now implemented on top
of the new Apple Cocoa API. Combined with the robust Unix-based
LispWorks kernel, this enables LispWorks to offer a unique, powerful and
fun to use Lisp development environment for Macintosh Mac OS X (10.2 or
higher) users
Availability and Pricing
As of June 30th, 2003, LispWorks for Macintosh is available as a
Professional Edition at $999 and Enterprise Edition at $2,999. The
Enterprise Edition includes Common SQL, LispWorks ORB and
KnowledgeWorks. Support and Maintenance packages are also available.
Environments and Enhancements
LispWorks for Macintosh supports:
* native Mac OS X GUI with Aqua look and feel through Cocoa, and
* the X11/Motif-based GUI familiar to users of LispWorks for Unix and
LispWorks for Linux
Additional new features and enhancements in LispWorks 4.3 include:
More powerful hash tables
Improved CLOS
Improved MOP compliance
More compiler checks
Bivalent streams
FLI supports bit fields in structs and unions
CAPI extensions
New Stepper tool
Various other IDE improvements
Serial Port interface on Windows
Comprehensive documentation for CAPI and FLI
Updated documentation (including the metaobject protocol)
Source code for the LispWorks Editor
LispWorks 4.3 for Windows, Linux and Unix platforms will follow
in Q3 2003.
Please contact us via email to ··········@xanalys.com or call us to
place your order.
US/Asia Pacific:
Phone: +1 781 547 5566 X112
Fax: +1 781 547 5565
Europe/Africa:
Phone: +49 6142 938197
Fax: +49 6142 938199
--
Rolf Mach
Xanalys LispWorks Business Development & Sales Manager, Europe
An der Schaafhansenwiese 6, D-65428 Ruesselsheim, Germany
·····@xanalys.com, www.lispworks.com, Phone ++49 +6142 9381-97, Fax -99
From: Scott McKay
Subject: Re: XANALYS ANNOUNCES THE RELEASE OF LISPWORKS FOR MACINTOSH 4.3
Date:
Message-ID: <durMa.12007$926.1235@sccrnsc03>
"Rolf Mach" <·····@xanalys.com> wrote in message
···············@juno.wiesbaden.netsurf.de...
> Availability and Pricing
>
> As of June 30th, 2003, LispWorks for Macintosh is available as a
> Professional Edition at $999 and Enterprise Edition at $2,999. The
> Enterprise Edition includes Common SQL, LispWorks ORB and
> KnowledgeWorks. Support and Maintenance packages are also available.
>
Ouch. Do let us know if you sell a copy.
"Scott McKay" <···········@comcast.net> writes:
> "Rolf Mach" <·····@xanalys.com> wrote in message
> ···············@juno.wiesbaden.netsurf.de...
>
> > Availability and Pricing
> >
> > As of June 30th, 2003, LispWorks for Macintosh is available as a
> > Professional Edition at $999 and Enterprise Edition at $2,999. The
> > Enterprise Edition includes Common SQL, LispWorks ORB and
> > KnowledgeWorks. Support and Maintenance packages are also available.
>
> Ouch. Do let us know if you sell a copy.
Ouch? That's essentially what they sell 4.2 for on Windows and Linux.
And it's significantly lower than their Solaris/HP-UX/OSF1 version.
I definately want to give it a try...
--
/|_ .-----------------------.
,' .\ / | No to Imperialist war |
,--' _,' | Wage class war! |
/ / `-----------------------'
( -. |
| ) |
(`-. '--.)
`. )----'
From: Greg Menke
Subject: Re: XANALYS ANNOUNCES THE RELEASE OF LISPWORKS FOR MACINTOSH 4.3
Date:
Message-ID: <m365mlvczo.fsf@europa.pienet>
"Scott McKay" <···········@comcast.net> writes:
> "Rolf Mach" <·····@xanalys.com> wrote in message
> ···············@juno.wiesbaden.netsurf.de...
>
> > Availability and Pricing
> >
> > As of June 30th, 2003, LispWorks for Macintosh is available as a
> > Professional Edition at $999 and Enterprise Edition at $2,999. The
> > Enterprise Edition includes Common SQL, LispWorks ORB and
> > KnowledgeWorks. Support and Maintenance packages are also available.
> >
>
> Ouch. Do let us know if you sell a copy.
Its not all that outrageous a price. If you want to set up a simple
machine shop suitable for tinkering in any serious way, you'll need to
spend at least $3k to get a minimum mixture of used and new. Pretty
much the same for electrical engineering. If you want to set up for
serious work, then $10k is probably a reasonable minimum. Why should
the software racket be any different? Sure you can spend lots less
but for the most part you will not be able to do as much- or at least
doing the same will cost you huge amounts of labor. If the free CL's
do what you need, more power to you, but the commercial distributions
are really nice. I think its great Xanalys targets so many different
architectures.
Gregm
From: Kenny Tilton
Subject: Re: XANALYS ANNOUNCES THE RELEASE OF LISPWORKS FOR MACINTOSH 4.3
Date:
Message-ID: <3F025E60.6040705@nyc.rr.com>
Scott McKay wrote:
> "Rolf Mach" <·····@xanalys.com> wrote in message
> ···············@juno.wiesbaden.netsurf.de...
>
>
>>Availability and Pricing
>>
>>As of June 30th, 2003, LispWorks for Macintosh is available as a
>>Professional Edition at $999 and Enterprise Edition at $2,999. The
>>Enterprise Edition includes Common SQL, LispWorks ORB and
>>KnowledgeWorks. Support and Maintenance packages are also available.
>>
>
>
> Ouch. Do let us know if you sell a copy.
Do let us know how little you value your time wasted on less productive
tools.
if I can get a vendor to write code for me (in the form of cool libs or
just a nice IDE or GUI not available (with support) in open source) as
if they were an extremely capable contract developer working for 40
cents/hour, i am pickled tink, and i am sure as hell not going to stand
over their desk whining that they should be doing it for a dime.
--
kenny tilton
clinisys, inc
http://www.tilton-technology.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------
"Everything is a cell." -- Alan Kay
From: Espen Vestre
Subject: Re: XANALYS ANNOUNCES THE RELEASE OF LISPWORKS FOR MACINTOSH 4.3
Date:
Message-ID: <kw65mll5ev.fsf@merced.netfonds.no>
"Scott McKay" <···········@comcast.net> writes:
> Ouch. Do let us know if you sell a copy.
(incf copies-sold) - I ordered it.
If you think $999 is a lot for a lisp with unlimited runtime licenses,
I assume you haven't used lisp at all for commercial purposes
--
(espen)
Excuse me? Are you joking? LispWorks is a stellar product, worth every red
cent of its asking price. What is it with you people?
Sheesh...
--
David E. Young
(format nil ···@~A.~A" 'youngde 'pobox 'com)
http://lisa.sourceforge.net
"For wisdom is more precious than rubies,
and nothing you desire can compare with her."
-- Proverbs 8:11
"But all the world understands my language."
-- Franz Joseph Haydn (1732-1809)
"Scott McKay" <···········@comcast.net> wrote in message
·························@sccrnsc03...
>
> "Rolf Mach" <·····@xanalys.com> wrote in message
> ···············@juno.wiesbaden.netsurf.de...
>
> > Availability and Pricing
> >
> > As of June 30th, 2003, LispWorks for Macintosh is available as a
> > Professional Edition at $999 and Enterprise Edition at $2,999. The
> > Enterprise Edition includes Common SQL, LispWorks ORB and
> > KnowledgeWorks. Support and Maintenance packages are also available.
> >
>
> Ouch. Do let us know if you sell a copy.
>
>
>
In article <·······················@twister.southeast.rr.com>,
"David E. Young" <·······@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> Excuse me? Are you joking? LispWorks is a stellar product, worth every red
> cent of its asking price. What is it with you people?
The problem is I'm wondering how I'm ever going to find out that it's a
stellar product, if it's going to cost me a month's (before tax) salary
just to try out using it to talk to Oracle and CORBA. I applied for the
OS X beta program and was rejected :-(
The good news is that management has just assigned me a special project
to embed a Scheme compiler into our core (C/C++) product, which runs on
FTX, HP/UX, Solaris and Linux (internally only so far...) :-)
-- Bruce
In article <···························@copper.ipg.tsnz.net>,
Bruce Hoult <·····@hoult.org> wrote:
>In article <·······················@twister.southeast.rr.com>,
> "David E. Young" <·······@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Excuse me? Are you joking? LispWorks is a stellar product, worth every red
>> cent of its asking price. What is it with you people?
>
>The problem is I'm wondering how I'm ever going to find out that it's a
>stellar product, if it's going to cost me a month's (before tax) salary
>just to try out using it to talk to Oracle and CORBA. I applied for the
>OS X beta program and was rejected :-(
How do you deal with this problem for other expensive things that you buy?
Except for cars, you generally can't take most things out for a test drive.
The usual solutions are to read reviews, ask for advice on the net, ask the
vendor for references, do Google searches, etc.
--
Barry Margolin, ··············@level3.com
Level(3), Woburn, MA
*** DON'T SEND TECHNICAL QUESTIONS DIRECTLY TO ME, post them to newsgroups.
Please DON'T copy followups to me -- I'll assume it wasn't posted to the group.
In article <···············@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>,
Barry Margolin <··············@level3.com> wrote:
> In article <···························@copper.ipg.tsnz.net>,
> Bruce Hoult <·····@hoult.org> wrote:
> >In article <·······················@twister.southeast.rr.com>,
> > "David E. Young" <·······@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Excuse me? Are you joking? LispWorks is a stellar product, worth every red
> >> cent of its asking price. What is it with you people?
> >
> >The problem is I'm wondering how I'm ever going to find out that it's a
> >stellar product, if it's going to cost me a month's (before tax) salary
> >just to try out using it to talk to Oracle and CORBA. I applied for the
> >OS X beta program and was rejected :-(
>
> How do you deal with this problem for other expensive things that you buy?
> Except for cars, you generally can't take most things out for a test drive.
No, that's not the case at all. I'd never buy anything anywhere near
that expensive without seeing someone else's in use, or at the very
least playing with it in a store for a couple of hours.
In fact, other than vehicles (which I *always* take for at least an
overnight test drive before buying -- the actual vehicle if it's used, a
dealer demo if it's new) and houses, I've never bought anything that
expensive in my life. Oh, wait ... the PowerBook I'm typing this on was
US$3200. I'd had several computers with the same OS before, and
carefully checked out this new model before buying it -- and I'm still
using it daily, five years later.
What store in New Zealand carries LispWorks? What customers do they
have here, who would let me try theirs?
I'm actually serious. I want something nice and seriously rapid to use
to do Cocoa programming for consulting jobs I do on the side -- one of
those just paid me $5k and the money is in the bank ready to spend --
and I'd very seriosuly consider a Common Lisp with a nice IDE. Gwydion
Dylan and OpenMCL are a bit raw for the task.
-- Bruce
>>>>> "Bruce" == Bruce Hoult <·····@hoult.org> writes:
Bruce> What store in New Zealand carries LispWorks? What customers do they
Bruce> have here, who would let me try theirs?
How about downloading the free personal edition and play with that?
Bruce> I'm actually serious. I want something nice and seriously rapid to use
Bruce> to do Cocoa programming for consulting jobs I do on the side -- one of
Bruce> those just paid me $5k and the money is in the bank ready to spend --
Bruce> and I'd very seriosuly consider a Common Lisp with a nice IDE. Gwydion
Bruce> Dylan and OpenMCL are a bit raw for the task.
There is also MCL (ie. the non open one) which isn't that expensive as
I remember (haven't tried it myself but I remember seeing enthusiastic
users here on the ng).
------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------
Christian Lynbech | christian ··@ defun #\. dk
------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------
Hit the philistines three times over the head with the Elisp reference manual.
- ·······@hal.com (Michael A. Petonic)
From: Erann Gat
Subject: Re: XANALYS ANNOUNCES THE RELEASE OF LISPWORKS FOR MACINTOSH 4.3
Date:
Message-ID: <gat-0307030705160001@192.168.1.51>
In article <··············@situla.ted.dk.eu.ericsson.se>, Christian
Lynbech <·················@ericsson.com> wrote:
> >>>>> "Bruce" == Bruce Hoult <·····@hoult.org> writes:
>
> Bruce> What store in New Zealand carries LispWorks? What customers do they
> Bruce> have here, who would let me try theirs?
>
> How about downloading the free personal edition and play with that?
>
> Bruce> I'm actually serious. I want something nice and seriously rapid
to use
> Bruce> to do Cocoa programming for consulting jobs I do on the side -- one of
> Bruce> those just paid me $5k and the money is in the bank ready to spend --
> Bruce> and I'd very seriosuly consider a Common Lisp with a nice IDE.
Gwydion
> Bruce> Dylan and OpenMCL are a bit raw for the task.
>
> There is also MCL (ie. the non open one) which isn't that expensive as
> I remember (haven't tried it myself but I remember seeing enthusiastic
> users here on the ng).
It's an excellent product. I recommend it enthusiastically. And there's
a free demo version.
E.
In article <····················@192.168.1.51>,
···@jpl.nasa.gov (Erann Gat) wrote:
> > There is also MCL (ie. the non open one) which isn't that expensive as
> > I remember (haven't tried it myself but I remember seeing enthusiastic
> > users here on the ng).
>
> It's an excellent product. I recommend it enthusiastically. And there's
> a free demo version.
OK, so which is best?
If they both have free demo or personal editions then I guess I can try
both (and I will).
I'd better define what I mean by best:
I have in mind a particular C++ MacOS program that I wrote for someone
several years ago while I was a freelance programmer. They have now
coming to me asking for an OS X version, with considerable improvements
desired at the same time. In fact I'd say that the existing program is
really little more than a proof of concept of the engine part, with
quite minimal interface.
This needs to be done in the very near term, in my "spare" time. It
also has to be totally transparent to the end user. I deliver them
foo.app and it's just like any other OS X application. They can drag it
from disk to disk and don't have to install anything else. This is of
course much easier to acheive with the OS X structure where foo.app is a
directory containing arbitrary files than it was in OS9 where everything
needed to be a resource not a file.
I also *must* be able to conveniently call the existing C++ "engine".
It's going to get a bit of a rewrite to use Quartz Extreme instead of
QuickDraw, but is going to stay in C++.
The choices appear to be:
- use Carbon with C++.
- probably the quickest conversion, but the slowest to enhance
- use Cocoa with Objective C++
- faster to develop new interfaces but have to completely
reimplement old interfaces (but this is minimal)
- use Cocoa with Gwydion Dylan and call out to C++
- my long term preference and the compiler is excellent, but
currently stuck in the "emacs is the IDE, gdb is the debugger"
stage, doesn't yet have incremental compiling, and the binding
to Cocoa is pretty unpolished.
- use Cocoa with Common Lisp and call out to C++
- language very similar to Dylan (almost as good), IDEs much
more mature, instant turn-around on playing with ideas.
I don't think Smalltalk or anything else is a serious contender.
Xcode is the wildcard.
-- Bruce
From: Immanuel Litzroth
Subject: Re: XANALYS ANNOUNCES THE RELEASE OF LISPWORKS FOR MACINTOSH 4.3
Date:
Message-ID: <m27k6ylfyx.fsf@enfocus.be>
>>>>> "Bruce" == Bruce Hoult <·····@hoult.org> writes:
Bruce> In article <····················@192.168.1.51>,
You did not mention whether the new application has to run on MacOSX
only or also on MacOS9.
If you already have working C++ code for OS9 Carbonizing your app
will be the path of least resistance + it will ensure backwards
compatibility with OS9.
In the time you win by simply carbonizing you get to play with:
* Gwydion Dylan
* Common Lisp
Immanuel
So ask the vendor for an eval copy. Gosh, over the years I've had to do that
several times for different employers; in each case the Lisp vendor in
question bent over backwards to make sure we had ample time to do a complete
evaluation. I honestly don't know what else they can reasonably do to make
people happy...
--
David E. Young
(format nil ···@~A.~A" 'youngde 'pobox 'com)
http://lisa.sourceforge.net
"For wisdom is more precious than rubies,
and nothing you desire can compare with her."
-- Prov. 8:11
"But all the world understands my language."
-- Franz Joseph Haydn (1732-1809)
"Bruce Hoult" <·····@hoult.org> wrote in message
································@copper.ipg.tsnz.net...
> In article <·······················@twister.southeast.rr.com>,
> "David E. Young" <·······@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > Excuse me? Are you joking? LispWorks is a stellar product, worth every
red
> > cent of its asking price. What is it with you people?
>
> The problem is I'm wondering how I'm ever going to find out that it's a
> stellar product, if it's going to cost me a month's (before tax) salary
> just to try out using it to talk to Oracle and CORBA. I applied for the
> OS X beta program and was rejected :-(
>
> The good news is that management has just assigned me a special project
> to embed a Scheme compiler into our core (C/C++) product, which runs on
> FTX, HP/UX, Solaris and Linux (internally only so far...) :-)
>
> -- Bruce
In article <·······················@twister.southeast.rr.com>,
"David E. Young" <·······@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> So ask the vendor for an eval copy. Gosh, over the years I've had to do that
> several times for different employers; in each case the Lisp vendor in
> question bent over backwards to make sure we had ample time to do a complete
> evaluation. I honestly don't know what else they can reasonably do to make
> people happy...
How many copies were you going to buy if you liked it? I'm going to buy
*one*.
As I said I applied to be a beta tester and was turned down. I don't
know why they'd be more willing to give me an eval copy now than they
were when it was only a beta. But I will ask them and see.
-- Bruce
Bruce Hoult <·····@hoult.org> writes:
> In article <·······················@twister.southeast.rr.com>,
> "David E. Young" <·······@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > So ask the vendor for an eval copy. Gosh, over the years I've had
> > to do that several times for different employers; in each case the
> > Lisp vendor in question bent over backwards to make sure we had
> > ample time to do a complete evaluation. I honestly don't know what
> > else they can reasonably do to make people happy...
>
> How many copies were you going to buy if you liked it? I'm going to buy
> *one*.
>
> As I said I applied to be a beta tester and was turned down. I don't
> know why they'd be more willing to give me an eval copy now than they
> were when it was only a beta. But I will ask them and see.
Beta Test programs only require a fixed number of people. Often one can't
be properly supportive of more than N people and, also, after a certain
number of testers there is a point of diminishing returns.
By contrast, every eval copy is a potential sale. There's no obvious
reason I can see for the vendor to only want to have a certain number
of eval copies active. If the vendor is set up for trial licensing at
all, the cost of offering you such a license is generally tiny and the
benefit to the customer if you decide to go ahead and do the purchase
is well worth it even at the quantity=1 level (since we're talking
products that are not in the $20-$30 range, but in a high enough range
that a few dollars lost to administering the trial license don't mean
all the profit margin is lost). A vendor may say it has no trial
license program, but I've frankly never heard of _any_ vendor who has
a trial license program turning down a request for such a license.
(Has anyone?)
We bought one. One. 1. A single copy. Know what? The vendor's been great.
--
David E. Young
(format nil ···@~A.~A" 'youngde 'pobox 'com)
http://lisa.sourceforge.net
"For wisdom is more precious than rubies,
and nothing you desire can compare with her."
-- Prov. 8:11
"But all the world understands my language."
-- Franz Joseph Haydn (1732-1809)
"Bruce Hoult" <·····@hoult.org> wrote in message
································@copper.ipg.tsnz.net...
> In article <·······················@twister.southeast.rr.com>,
> "David E. Young" <·······@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > So ask the vendor for an eval copy. Gosh, over the years I've had to do
that
> > several times for different employers; in each case the Lisp vendor in
> > question bent over backwards to make sure we had ample time to do a
complete
> > evaluation. I honestly don't know what else they can reasonably do to
make
> > people happy...
>
> How many copies were you going to buy if you liked it? I'm going to buy
> *one*.
>
> As I said I applied to be a beta tester and was turned down. I don't
> know why they'd be more willing to give me an eval copy now than they
> were when it was only a beta. But I will ask them and see.
>
> -- Bruce
In article <·······················@twister.southeast.rr.com>,
"David E. Young" <·······@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> We bought one. One. 1. A single copy. Know what? The vendor's been great.
That's good to hear.
-- Bruce
In article <···························@copper.ipg.tsnz.net>,
Bruce Hoult <·····@hoult.org> wrote:
> In article <·······················@twister.southeast.rr.com>,
> "David E. Young" <·······@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > So ask the vendor for an eval copy. Gosh, over the years I've had to do that
> > several times for different employers; in each case the Lisp vendor in
> > question bent over backwards to make sure we had ample time to do a complete
> > evaluation. I honestly don't know what else they can reasonably do to make
> > people happy...
>
> How many copies were you going to buy if you liked it? I'm going to buy
> *one*.
>
> As I said I applied to be a beta tester and was turned down. I don't
> know why they'd be more willing to give me an eval copy now than they
> were when it was only a beta. But I will ask them and see.
>
> -- Bruce
Hey,
getting an eval is just a step in the normal sales process.
It "was not only a beta". Getting a beta means being part
of the beta development cycle - in this part of a product
phase one usually can only handle so much people giving
feedback as one can read mail, handle phone calls etc.
Now, that they published a product, it is out of the beta
cycle and getting an eval should (my guess) be no problem.
Rainer Joswig
Bruce Hoult <·····@hoult.org> wrote in message news:<···························@copper.ipg.tsnz.net>...
> In article <·······················@twister.southeast.rr.com>,
> "David E. Young" <·······@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > So ask the vendor for an eval copy. Gosh, over the years I've had to do that
> > several times for different employers; in each case the Lisp vendor in
> > question bent over backwards to make sure we had ample time to do a complete
> > evaluation. I honestly don't know what else they can reasonably do to make
> > people happy...
>
> How many copies were you going to buy if you liked it? I'm going to buy
> *one*.
>
> As I said I applied to be a beta tester and was turned down. I don't
> know why they'd be more willing to give me an eval copy now than they
> were when it was only a beta. But I will ask them and see.
>
> -- Bruce
Bruce--
I was turned down for beta testing as well, but that didn't bother me.
Just so you know, I've already been in contact with Xanalys and their
US rep is supposed to get in touch with me next week about an eval. I
plan on buying one copy, but I would like to try it first... they were
quite prompt and polite in their response, too.
Mark
·······@ix.netcom.com (Mark Davidson) wrote in message news:<····························@posting.google.com>...
> Bruce Hoult <·····@hoult.org> wrote in message news:<···························@copper.ipg.tsnz.net>...
> > In article <·······················@twister.southeast.rr.com>,
> > "David E. Young" <·······@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > > So ask the vendor for an eval copy. Gosh, over the years I've had to do that
> > > several times for different employers; in each case the Lisp vendor in
> > > question bent over backwards to make sure we had ample time to do a complete
> > > evaluation. I honestly don't know what else they can reasonably do to make
> > > people happy...
> >
> > How many copies were you going to buy if you liked it? I'm going to buy
> > *one*.
> >
> > As I said I applied to be a beta tester and was turned down. I don't
> > know why they'd be more willing to give me an eval copy now than they
> > were when it was only a beta. But I will ask them and see.
> >
> > -- Bruce
Just a follow up...
I asked for (and received) an eval copy of LW4.3 for the Mac (it's
downloading now). I did have to sign an NDA to get this, but Xanalys'
sales person was quite prompt and helpful.
They told me: "I suggest you encourage people inquiring about the
possibility of LWM 4.3 evaluation to contact Xanalys through
··········@xanalys.com" and I thought I'd pass that along.
Mark
From: Edi Weitz
Subject: Re: XANALYS ANNOUNCES THE RELEASE OF LISPWORKS FOR MACINTOSH 4.3
Date:
Message-ID: <87smpou4ah.fsf@bird.agharta.de>
Bruce Hoult <·····@hoult.org> writes:
> The problem is I'm wondering how I'm ever going to find out that
> it's a stellar product, if it's going to cost me a month's (before
> tax) salary just to try out using it to talk to Oracle and CORBA.
I'm pretty sure you'll be able to get the full product for evaluation
if you ask Xanalys. I'm also pretty sure that whining on Usenet and
demanding they should give away their products for free won't help
very much...
Edi.
In article <··············@bird.agharta.de>, Edi Weitz <···@agharta.de>
wrote:
> Bruce Hoult <·····@hoult.org> writes:
>
> > The problem is I'm wondering how I'm ever going to find out that
> > it's a stellar product, if it's going to cost me a month's (before
> > tax) salary just to try out using it to talk to Oracle and CORBA.
>
> I'm pretty sure you'll be able to get the full product for evaluation
> if you ask Xanalys. I'm also pretty sure that whining on Usenet and
> demanding they should give away their products for free won't help
> very much...
I don't want it for free. I paid good money for the computer I'd run it
on, and I've also paid good money in the past for MPW/ETO and
CodeWarrior and Think Pascal and Symantec C++ (now *there* was a waste
of money) and Jasik's Debugger and goodness knows what. Paying money
isn't a problem *if* I know it will do the job I want it to. But I
can't afford to waste money -- especially when this is more in one hit
than I've spent on every other development tool I've bought in 15 years.
-- Bruce
In article <····················@sccrnsc03>,
"Scott McKay" <···········@comcast.net> wrote:
> "Rolf Mach" <·····@xanalys.com> wrote in message
> ···············@juno.wiesbaden.netsurf.de...
>
> > Availability and Pricing
> >
> > As of June 30th, 2003, LispWorks for Macintosh is available as a
> > Professional Edition at $999 and Enterprise Edition at $2,999. The
> > Enterprise Edition includes Common SQL, LispWorks ORB and
> > KnowledgeWorks. Support and Maintenance packages are also available.
> >
>
> Ouch. Do let us know if you sell a copy.
>
>
>
Hi Scott,
I have a copy of LispWorks for Macintosh. It is really cool.
It runs on my G4 Powerbook nicely.
If people are really into Lisp programming and they also like
Macs, better run, don't walk to get a copy.
This is a fantastic port of LispWorks. The feature set
is just overwhelming, the people at Xanalys are extremely
competent, the licensing is fair and the product is beautiful.
This is my honest opinion.
I have tried some software with it already:
CL-HTTP 70.159, Common Lisp Music, Gabriel Benchmarks,
Classic, WEIRD-IRC, ... and I'm barely scratching the
surface.
I have two Lisp images: one for the Cocoa IDE and
one you can start from the terminal. The latter has
also the X11 Motif based IDE. You can use more than
one version of LispWorks at the same time. Now
combined with the Unix heritage of Mac OS X, the
nice Aqua interface, Apple's free version of X11
and one of their machines (say, a dual G5 ;-) ),
you get an extremely powerful and capable development
environment.
Here are some screenshots:
http://www.lemonodor.com/images/lwm-4-3-0.jpg
http://lemonodor.com/lwm-4.3-os-x/1.shtml
http://lemonodor.com/lwm-4.3-os-x/13.shtml
Generally Mac OS X is a very nice platform for
Common Lisp development right now. MCL 5.0 has been
released! ACL 6.2 is there (maybe it even gets a Cocoa GUI
sometime?!?)! OpenMCL 0.14 is in the works (with MOP and
native threads!). CLISP is available.
Have fun,
Rainer Joswig
Rainer Joswig <······@lispmachine.de> wrote in message news:<····························@news.fu-berlin.de>...
> In article <····························@posting.google.com>,
> ·······@ix.netcom.com (Mark Davidson) wrote:
>
> > Rainer--
> >
> > Thanks so much for the links to the screenshots... LispWorks looks
> > great! I am curious about one thing (and I'm a newbie to this group,
> > so if this has been answered before, point me to it)... you said that
> > MCL 5.0 has been released, but when I go to digitool.com, the news
> > they list is old (November 2002)
>
> Hmm, when did you go lately to Digitool's website?
> I see there:
>
>
> June 2003
>
> The release version of MacOSX native MCL (MCL 5.0) is available for
> purchase. See here for the details and here for the release notes.
> Customers who purchased the beta version automatically receive the
> release version.
>
>
>
> > and the only reference I can find to
> > MCL 5.0 says it *will* be released in January 2003... but I still see
> > the price listed for pre-release purchases. I e-mailed them to find
> > out what was going on, but haven't received an answer yet.
>
> Maybe you need to try again.
>
> > Is it out?
>
> Yes, MCL 5.0 is definitely out.
>
> > How does MCL 5.0 compare to LispWorks?
>
> A non-complete list follows. Btw., I plan to give a talk
> at the upcoming International Lisp Conference in New York
> comparing the various Common Lisp options for
> Mac OS X.
>
> Just comparing MCL and LispWorks. ACL would be interesting, too.
> But ACL does not yet (!) have a Mac-like user interface.
>
> MCL
> + long tradition on the Mac and really good implementation of ANSI CL
> + runs in Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X
> + deep support for Carbon libraries
> + multiple threads
> + small footprint
> + complete IDE in Lisp
> + easy to use
> + CLIM available as an option
> + comes with most of itself in source
> + CLIM source available
> + can generate applications easily
> + lots of contributions available (OpenGL, Quicktime, ...)
> + free version: OpenMCL
> + good GC
>
> - no Cocoa (and some other newer libs) support
> - MOP-support limited
> - uses old event-loop (busy waiting)
> - often needs new versions when new OS version is coming out
> due to deep integration
> - only available on the Mac
>
>
> LispWorks for Macintosh
> + long tradition on Unix workstations and Windows
> + really good implementation of ANSI CL
> + cross platform GUI framework (CAPI)
> + portable and very complete integrated development environment
> + Editor in source code
> + multiple threads
> + extensive support for the Meta Object Protocol
> + lots of additional stuff (KnowledgeWorks, Common SQL,
> Corba, ...)
> + royalty-free application delivery
> + CLIM version for Motif/X11 included
> + comes in two versions: native Mac version and Motif/X11
> version
> + good GC
> + Sockets
>
> - besides the Editor, it comes with almost no source code
> - not so extensive support of contribution (but runs
> a lot of stuff you can get on the Internet)
> - CLIM not available for native Mac GUI
> - lacks (low/highlevel) support for many of the Apple
> libraries (Quicktime, AppleEvents, some of the graphics stuff,
> MIDI, Carbon libs, ...)
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Rainer Joswig
Rainer--
Actually, I had been there last week... it turns out that Digitool had
a web server crash, and they had restored from an old backup. That's
why the web site was so out of date. :)
In any case, thanks for the comparison. Digitool is supposed to be
working on a "demo" version of MCL 5 for people to play with.
However, I'm not waiting on that and am trying to get an eval of LW4.3
for my Mac... can't wait to try it!
Mark
In article <····························@news.fu-berlin.de>,
Rainer Joswig <······@lispmachine.de> wrote:
> LispWorks for Macintosh
> - lacks (low/highlevel) support for many of the Apple
> libraries (Quicktime, AppleEvents, some of the graphics stuff,
> MIDI, Carbon libs, ...)
Damn. That could be a show-stopper.
How hard is it to roll your own for the bits you need? QuickTime & MIDI
(for timecode) is exactly the space my application is in.
-- Bruce
In article <···························@copper.ipg.tsnz.net>,
Bruce Hoult <·····@hoult.org> wrote:
> In article <····························@news.fu-berlin.de>,
> Rainer Joswig <······@lispmachine.de> wrote:
>
> > LispWorks for Macintosh
> > - lacks (low/highlevel) support for many of the Apple
> > libraries (Quicktime, AppleEvents, some of the graphics stuff,
> > MIDI, Carbon libs, ...)
>
> Damn. That could be a show-stopper.
>
> How hard is it to roll your own for the bits you need? QuickTime & MIDI
> (for timecode) is exactly the space my application is in.
>
> -- Bruce
Look, LispWorks for Macintosh has just been released a few
days ago. Give them a some time. If you would be interested
in buying a version that would support both MIDI
and Quicktime, contact them and tell them your requirements
- so that they can plan future releases. Maybe it is
possible to write such libs on your own - I have not tried
anything in that direction yet - you would need to
ask Xanalys directly.
For MCL on the other hand, Quicktime and MIDI stuff should
be available - especially since several MCL applications
are exactly in that area. ;-)
Rainer Joswig
In article <····························@news.fu-berlin.de>,
Rainer Joswig <······@lispmachine.de> wrote:
> Look, LispWorks for Macintosh has just been released a few
> days ago. Give them a some time.
It's not a matter of giving anyone time, the question is can I use it
instead of Obj-C for what I need to start doing in the next month?
> For MCL on the other hand, Quicktime and MIDI stuff should
> be available - especially since several MCL applications
> are exactly in that area. ;-)
But no Cocoa, right?
Given a choice of Cocoa but no QuickTime, or QuickTime but no Cocoa I
think I'd have to go for Cocoa but no Quicktime. Interfacing to vanilla
C/C++ is a solved problem and surely any commercial CL is going to have
a decent C FFI. I'm perfectly capable of wrapping external C APIs
myself as long as I'm given the tools to do it. Interfacing to Obj-C on
the other hand is harder -- calling existing stuff is easy enough (you
always call the same C dispatch function, but with different arguments,
one of which is a message selector), but the Cocoa is where I need to be
able to quicky and easily define new classes and have a GUI layout tool
etc.
Does LispWorks use InterfaceBuilder, or do they provide their own
interface editor within LispWorks?
-- Bruce
From: mikel
Subject: Re: XANALYS ANNOUNCES THE RELEASE OF LISPWORKS FOR MACINTOSH 4.3
Date:
Message-ID: <m2ptkk43h4.fsf@evins.net>
Bruce Hoult <·····@hoult.org> writes:
> In article <····························@news.fu-berlin.de>,
> Rainer Joswig <······@lispmachine.de> wrote:
>
> > Look, LispWorks for Macintosh has just been released a few
> > days ago. Give them a some time.
>
> It's not a matter of giving anyone time, the question is can I use it
> instead of Obj-C for what I need to start doing in the next month?
>
>
> > For MCL on the other hand, Quicktime and MIDI stuff should
> > be available - especially since several MCL applications
> > are exactly in that area. ;-)
>
> But no Cocoa, right?
>
>
> Given a choice of Cocoa but no QuickTime, or QuickTime but no Cocoa I
> think I'd have to go for Cocoa but no Quicktime. Interfacing to vanilla
> C/C++ is a solved problem and surely any commercial CL is going to have
> a decent C FFI. I'm perfectly capable of wrapping external C APIs
> myself as long as I'm given the tools to do it. Interfacing to Obj-C on
> the other hand is harder -- calling existing stuff is easy enough (you
> always call the same C dispatch function, but with different arguments,
> one of which is a message selector), but the Cocoa is where I need to be
> able to quicky and easily define new classes and have a GUI layout tool
> etc.
I've written several Cocoa applications in OpenMCL. It ain't easy,
but it's possible if you want badly enough to do it.