From: Christian Nyb�
Subject: Anyone doing hosting of lisp-based web apps?
Date: 
Message-ID: <siksmpye50a.fsf@grace.uio.no>
There are numerous companies offering hosting of web servers running
apache, php, mysql or postgresql.  Does anyone know of companies that 
offer hosting of lisp-based web applications?
-- 
chr

From: Mark Watson
Subject: Re: Anyone doing hosting of lisp-based web apps?
Date: 
Message-ID: <lmlKa.792$EW2.67742@news.uswest.net>
I had great luck with a $35 (US) per month virtual hosting
account.  The memory limit was too small for a Java
servlet container like Tomcat, but I ran two servers
(one hand written in Lisp, the other a standard VisualWorks
web app) - both ran fine together.

-Mark
- Free Lisp Web Book at www.markwatson.com

"Christian Nyb�" <···@sli.uio.no> wrote in message
····················@grace.uio.no...
> There are numerous companies offering hosting of web servers running
> apache, php, mysql or postgresql.  Does anyone know of companies that
> offer hosting of lisp-based web applications?
> -- 
> chr
From: Daniel Barlow
Subject: Re: Anyone doing hosting of lisp-based web apps?
Date: 
Message-ID: <87he6es5l0.fsf@noetbook.telent.net>
···@sli.uio.no (Christian Nyb�) writes:

> There are numerous companies offering hosting of web servers running
> apache, php, mysql or postgresql.  Does anyone know of companies that 
> offer hosting of lisp-based web applications?

You could look at http://alu.cliki.net/Lisp-friendly%20Web%20Hosting

Alternatively, try one of the "virtual server" companies like Bytemark
<http://www.bytemark-hosting.co.uk/vmhosting/index.html> which should
let you run pretty much anything you want to.

(This is not a recommendation as I've not dealt with them, I just
happened to see their stand at a show yesterday)


-dan

-- 

   http://www.cliki.net/ - Link farm for free CL-on-Unix resources 
From: Ng Pheng Siong
Subject: Re: Anyone doing hosting of lisp-based web apps?
Date: 
Message-ID: <bdkbt4$42h$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>
According to Daniel Barlow  <···@telent.net>:
> Alternatively, try one of the "virtual server" companies like Bytemark
> <http://www.bytemark-hosting.co.uk/vmhosting/index.html> which should
> let you run pretty much anything you want to.

Two FreeBSD-based ones I spoke to balked at CMUCL's startup memory
requirement.


-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <····@netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net  -+- Manage Your Firewall Rulebase Changes
http://www.post1.com/home/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL
From: Johannes Groedem
Subject: Re: Anyone doing hosting of lisp-based web apps?
Date: 
Message-ID: <lzfzluxiqk.fsf@unity.copyleft.no>
* ····@netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong):

>> Alternatively, try one of the "virtual server" companies like
>> Bytemark <http://www.bytemark-hosting.co.uk/vmhosting/index.html>
>> which should let you run pretty much anything you want to.
> Two FreeBSD-based ones I spoke to balked at CMUCL's startup memory
> requirement.

What?  6MB?  I thought people could afford this much these days.

-- 
Johannes Groedem <OpenPGP: 5055654C>
From: Ng Pheng Siong
Subject: Re: Anyone doing hosting of lisp-based web apps?
Date: 
Message-ID: <bdm47d$9o1$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>
According to Johannes Groedem  <······@ifi.uio.no>:
> * ····@netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong):
> > Two FreeBSD-based ones I spoke to balked at CMUCL's startup memory
> > requirement.
> 
> What?  6MB?  I thought people could afford this much these days.

  PID USERNAME  PRI NICE  SIZE    RES STATE    TIME   WCPU    CPU COMMAND
  510 ngps        2   0  1269M  5992K select   0:00  0.00%  0.00% lisp
                         ^^^^^

CMUCL wouldn't start on their test-drive boxens' default configs.

(These are FreeBSD jail-based virtual server environments.)


-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <····@netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net  -+- Manage Your Firewall Rulebase Changes
http://www.post1.com/home/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL
From: Rob Warnock
Subject: Re: Anyone doing hosting of lisp-based web apps?
Date: 
Message-ID: <goWcndts3og6OmOjXTWc-w@speakeasy.net>
Ng Pheng Siong <····@netmemetic.com> wrote:
+---------------
| According to Johannes Groedem  <······@ifi.uio.no>:
| > * ····@netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong):
| > > Two FreeBSD-based ones I spoke to balked at CMUCL's startup memory
| > > requirement.
| > 
| > What?  6MB?  I thought people could afford this much these days.
| 
|   PID USERNAME  PRI NICE  SIZE    RES STATE    TIME   WCPU    CPU COMMAND
|   510 ngps        2   0  1269M  5992K select   0:00  0.00%  0.00% lisp
|                          ^^^^^
| CMUCL wouldn't start on their test-drive boxens' default configs.
| (These are FreeBSD jail-based virtual server environments.)
+---------------

Hmmm... There may be a problem with the FreeBSD "jail", then, or maybe
it's just that their config is too restrictive. While it's true that
CMUCL *maps* that much at startup, it doesn't actually touch much more
than the startup code plus the bits of the saved image that you really
use, hence that modest ~6M "resident set size" you see there -- plus,
of course, any additional space you allocate (times 2, after the next GC).

I run a persistent web application server in CMUCL quite handily under
FreeBSD on several machines, from a speedy mid-sized server down to a
fairly small (48MB), slow (133MHz) laptop. FreeBSD handles CMUCL's VM
demands quite handily, when you let it...


-Rob

-----
Rob Warnock, PP-ASEL-IA		<····@rpw3.org>
627 26th Avenue			<URL:http://rpw3.org/>
San Mateo, CA 94403		(650)572-2607
From: Ng Pheng Siong
Subject: Re: Anyone doing hosting of lisp-based web apps?
Date: 
Message-ID: <bdpk25$g0o$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>
According to Rob Warnock <····@rpw3.org>:
> Ng Pheng Siong <····@netmemetic.com> wrote:
> |   PID USERNAME  PRI NICE  SIZE    RES STATE    TIME   WCPU    CPU COMMAND
> |   510 ngps        2   0  1269M  5992K select   0:00  0.00%  0.00% lisp
> |                          ^^^^^
> | CMUCL wouldn't start on their test-drive boxens' default configs.
> | (These are FreeBSD jail-based virtual server environments.)
> 
> Hmmm... There may be a problem with the FreeBSD "jail", then, or maybe
> it's just that their config is too restrictive. 

It's their config. One FreeBSD boxen can host many jails and only the
provider knows how many jails per box he is selling. ;-)

Both providers I spoke to fear that the initial mapping of 1+GB in one jail
will impact the other jails too adversely.

> I run a persistent web application server in CMUCL quite handily under
> FreeBSD on several machines, from a speedy mid-sized server down to a
> fairly small (48MB), slow (133MHz) laptop. FreeBSD handles CMUCL's VM
> demands quite handily, when you let it...

Yup, I'm running a jailed CMUCL process on my FreeBSD machine. Works fine.


-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <····@netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net  -+- Manage Your Firewall Rulebase Changes
http://www.post1.com/home/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL
From: Raymond Toy
Subject: Re: Anyone doing hosting of lisp-based web apps?
Date: 
Message-ID: <4nvfun7eic.fsf@edgedsp4.rtp.ericsson.se>
>>>>> "Ng" == Ng Pheng Siong <····@netmemetic.com> writes:

    Ng> According to Rob Warnock <····@rpw3.org>:
    >> Ng Pheng Siong <····@netmemetic.com> wrote:
    >> |   PID USERNAME  PRI NICE  SIZE    RES STATE    TIME   WCPU    CPU COMMAND
    >> |   510 ngps        2   0  1269M  5992K select   0:00  0.00%  0.00% lisp
    >> |                          ^^^^^
    >> | CMUCL wouldn't start on their test-drive boxens' default configs.
    >> | (These are FreeBSD jail-based virtual server environments.)
    >> 
    >> Hmmm... There may be a problem with the FreeBSD "jail", then, or maybe
    >> it's just that their config is too restrictive. 

    Ng> It's their config. One FreeBSD boxen can host many jails and only the
    Ng> provider knows how many jails per box he is selling. ;-)

    Ng> Both providers I spoke to fear that the initial mapping of 1+GB in one jail
    Ng> will impact the other jails too adversely.

You might be able to use the -dynamic-space-size switch to reduce the
size of the heap.  The other spaces are fixed in size[1], so if you want
a smaller one, you'll have to build a custom version of CMUCL.

Ray

Footnotes: 
[1]  I once thought about adding additional switches for the sizes of
the static, read-only, and binding-stack sizes, but never got around
to it.  I think this would be fairly straight-forward to do.
From: Ng Pheng Siong
Subject: Re: Anyone doing hosting of lisp-based web apps?
Date: 
Message-ID: <bdqlg0$iqs$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg>
According to Raymond Toy  <···@rtp.ericsson.se>:
> You might be able to use the -dynamic-space-size switch to reduce the
> size of the heap.  The other spaces are fixed in size[1], so if you want
> a smaller one, you'll have to build a custom version of CMUCL.

Thanks, I'll try that.

I did get one such box after all and am running Zope in it.



-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <····@netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net  -+- Manage Your Firewall Rulebase Changes
http://www.post1.com/home/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL
From: Daniel Barlow
Subject: Re: Anyone doing hosting of lisp-based web apps?
Date: 
Message-ID: <87brwh25w9.fsf@noetbook.telent.net>
····@netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong) writes:

> According to Daniel Barlow  <···@telent.net>:
>> Alternatively, try one of the "virtual server" companies like Bytemark
>> <http://www.bytemark-hosting.co.uk/vmhosting/index.html> which should
>> let you run pretty much anything you want to.
>
> Two FreeBSD-based ones I spoke to balked at CMUCL's startup memory
> requirement.

  PID USER     PRI  NI  SIZE  RSS SHARE STAT %CPU %MEM   TIME COMMAND
 2305 telent    15   0 38892  28M 14504 S     0.0  5.6 305:20 sbcl

That image is running www.cliki.net (also ww.telent.net,
alu.cliki.net, web.metacircles.com, sbcl-internals.cliki.net and
possibly a couple of others).  I don't know how long it's been up, but
the machine has been running 150 days and I can't _remember_ having
restarted it since, so I think we can safely regard it as a
steady-state requirement

OK, it looks like quite a lot of memory for a single process, but
compared to apache with mod_perl and a few substantial Perl modules I
don't honestly think it's especially large.


-dan

-- 

   http://www.cliki.net/ - Link farm for free CL-on-Unix resources 
From: Ng Pheng Siong
Subject: Re: Anyone doing hosting of lisp-based web apps?
Date: 
Message-ID: <bdqlj8$iqs$2@reader01.singnet.com.sg>
According to Daniel Barlow  <···@telent.net>:
>   PID USER     PRI  NI  SIZE  RSS SHARE STAT %CPU %MEM   TIME COMMAND
>  2305 telent    15   0 38892  28M 14504 S     0.0  5.6 305:20 sbcl
                         ^^^^^
Hi, is this in kbytes? 

I think I'll check out SBCL too. Thanks.


-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <····@netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net  -+- Manage Your Firewall Rulebase Changes
http://www.post1.com/home/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL
From: Daniel Barlow
Subject: Re: Anyone doing hosting of lisp-based web apps?
Date: 
Message-ID: <87n0fyy76u.fsf@noetbook.telent.net>
····@netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong) writes:

> According to Daniel Barlow  <···@telent.net>:
>>   PID USER     PRI  NI  SIZE  RSS SHARE STAT %CPU %MEM   TIME COMMAND
>>  2305 telent    15   0 38892  28M 14504 S     0.0  5.6 305:20 sbcl
>                          ^^^^^
> Hi, is this in kbytes? 

Yup.  38Gb would be a _big_ process on a 32 bit machine ;-)


-dan

-- 

   http://www.cliki.net/ - Link farm for free CL-on-Unix resources