This is a great site that shows how to set up several different Lisp
implementations and how to set up Emacs to work with them:
http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/windows.html
Lowell
Lowell <······@cs.ubc.ca> wrote in message news:<············@mughi.cs.ubc.ca>...
> This is a great site that shows how to set up several different Lisp
> implementations and how to set up Emacs to work with them:
>
> http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/windows.html
>
Speaking as a Lisp newbie myself, it was very useful, but Emacs has a
learning curve of its own... I wish there was a more "Windows-y"
editor for Lisp.
I am enjoying the process of learning Lisp (I'm using Paul Graham's
book on ANSI Common Lisp), but the tools do form a barrier to entry.
I am a lisp and an emacs newbie myself and understand your qualms about
the learning emacs. It does have a stepp learning curve but you can
quickly get to the point of doing basic editing and then learn more at a
slow pace if you don't feel like diving in right away. But using emacs
is well worth the investment. The are many plug-ins that will give you
the same functionality as most other IDEs. And there are so many useful
key-combinations that will really speed up your programming. I think any
effort you make to get proficient with emacs will pay for itself in the
long run.
adam connor wrote:
> Speaking as a Lisp newbie myself, it was very useful, but Emacs has a
> learning curve of its own... I wish there was a more "Windows-y"
> editor for Lisp.
>
> I am enjoying the process of learning Lisp (I'm using Paul Graham's
> book on ANSI Common Lisp), but the tools do form a barrier to entry.
····@c2i.net (OlaA) writes:
> I'm trying to learn Lisp, but it seems to be hard if you don't have Linux.
> I've been looking for an IDE for windows, but no luck..
I just noticed the original post in this thread; the responses really
sucked. If you're looking for an IDE, you want one of the commercial
implementations. LispWorks and Allegro both have trial versions. I
think Corman Lisp has a trial of its IDE.
··········@mail.com (adam connor) writes:
> Speaking as a Lisp newbie myself, it was very useful, but Emacs has a
> learning curve of its own... I wish there was a more "Windows-y"
> editor for Lisp.
There are! If you insist on using the tools that grew up on Unix,
they won't be very Windowsy, but from what I've seen of Allegro, it's
very very Windowsy. Disgustingly Windowsy, I'd say, but then, I'm a
Unix and Mac guy. It's probably the kind of thing you'll like, if
you're the kind of person who likes that kind of thing :-)
--
/|_ .-----------------------.
,' .\ / | No to Imperialist war |
,--' _,' | Wage class war! |
/ / `-----------------------'
( -. |
| ) |
(`-. '--.)
`. )----'
··········@mail.com (adam connor) writes:
> I am enjoying the process of learning Lisp (I'm using Paul Graham's
> book on ANSI Common Lisp), but the tools do form a barrier to entry.
At least Franz' Allegro CL, Xanalys' Lispworks, and Corman's Corman
Lisp provide emacs-free lisp editors and environments well integrated
with MS Windows, and can be downloaded whenever you like, for free. I
think this is as good a selection as you can expect for any
programming language, so I don't quite see how this can be a barrier.
--
Frode Vatvedt Fjeld
Thanks for the note. I've tried Lispworks, and it was OK, but nothing
special. (Maybe I didn't give it enough time?) I've likely been
spoiled by working as a Java programmer, where there are a lot of
really good editors that are free.
Anyhow, I was mostly reacting to the sense that most of the Lisp
community uses Emacs. It's obviously not _that_ big a deal, since I am
still using Emacs to teach myself Lisp.
Frode Vatvedt Fjeld <······@cs.uit.no> said:
>··········@mail.com (adam connor) writes:
>
>> I am enjoying the process of learning Lisp (I'm using Paul Graham's
>> book on ANSI Common Lisp), but the tools do form a barrier to entry.
>
>At least Franz' Allegro CL, Xanalys' Lispworks, and Corman's Corman
>Lisp provide emacs-free lisp editors and environments well integrated
>with MS Windows, and can be downloaded whenever you like, for free. I
>think this is as good a selection as you can expect for any
>programming language, so I don't quite see how this can be a barrier.
A simple editor is scite. It has () checking and syntax color schemes
for many languages (29). There are more nice features.
http://www.scintilla.org
adam connor schrieb:
> Thanks for the note. I've tried Lispworks, and it was OK, but nothing
> special. (Maybe I didn't give it enough time?) I've likely been
> spoiled by working as a Java programmer, where there are a lot of
> really good editors that are free.
> Anyhow, I was mostly reacting to the sense that most of the Lisp
> community uses Emacs. It's obviously not _that_ big a deal, since I am
> still using Emacs to teach myself Lisp.
On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:44:54 -0700, adam connor wrote:
> Speaking as a Lisp newbie myself, it was very useful, but Emacs has a
> learning curve of its own... I wish there was a more "Windows-y" editor
> for Lisp.
Since nobody seems to have it mentioned yet, you might also want to try
Jabberwocky, a Lisp-IDE written in Java that works with CLISP on windows.
See <http://jabberwocky.sf.net>
Henrik Motakef <······@henrik-motakef.de> said:
>Since nobody seems to have it mentioned yet, you might also want to try
>Jabberwocky, a Lisp-IDE written in Java that works with CLISP on windows.
>See <http://jabberwocky.sf.net>
Thanks! I didn't know about that one.
··········@mail.com (adam connor) writes:
> Lowell <······@cs.ubc.ca> wrote in message news:<············@mughi.cs.ubc.ca>...
> > This is a great site that shows how to set up several different Lisp
> > implementations and how to set up Emacs to work with them:
> >
> > http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/windows.html
> >
>
> Speaking as a Lisp newbie myself, it was very useful, but Emacs has a
> learning curve of its own... I wish there was a more "Windows-y"
> editor for Lisp.
If you don't like Emacs per se, have you tried LispWorks, which is Emacs-like
but feels more like a regular Microsoft application?
I don't know what a "more windows-y editor" would be other than that,
unless you simply mean "utterly lacking in editing functionality at all".
> I am enjoying the process of learning Lisp (I'm using Paul Graham's
> book on ANSI Common Lisp), but the tools do form a barrier to entry.
Bad tools would form a bigger entry barrier.
··········@mail.com (adam connor) writes:
> Lowell <······@cs.ubc.ca> wrote in message news:<············@mughi.cs.ubc.ca>...
> > This is a great site that shows how to set up several different Lisp
> > implementations and how to set up Emacs to work with them:
> >
> > http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/windows.html
> >
>
> Speaking as a Lisp newbie myself, it was very useful, but Emacs has a
> learning curve of its own... I wish there was a more "Windows-y"
> editor for Lisp.
There is nothing stopping you from reconfiguring your editor to use a
more Windows-like keymap.
> I am enjoying the process of learning Lisp (I'm using Paul Graham's
> book on ANSI Common Lisp), but the tools do form a barrier to entry.
The tools aren't the barrier, your preconceptions about how things
ought to work is. If you were to decide to take up welding and were
having trouble getting decent welds even with quality equipment, the
fault is not the equipment. Coming to Lisp from a Windows background
is a big culture shift. Its sort of like the fleas that once
acclimated to jumping and hitting the lid of the jar in which they
were imprisioned, will still only jump to the height of the lid even
after its removed.
Gregm
Greg Menke <··········@toadmail.com> said:
>The tools aren't the barrier, your preconceptions about how things
>ought to work is. ...<snip>...
No doubt true; my point was only that many of us will have those
preconceptions.
For that matter, I've used Linux and Unix of and on for several years,
but have managed to avoid Emacs, which seams to be a unique editor.
adam connor <··········@mail.com> writes:
> Greg Menke <··········@toadmail.com> said:
>
> >The tools aren't the barrier, your preconceptions about how things
> >ought to work is. ...<snip>...
>
> No doubt true; my point was only that many of us will have those
> preconceptions.
Sure, and I continue to have them. Almost every time I write a Lisp
program, I have to unlearn some architectural habit or another that I
picked up using C. Whenever I've had difficulty using Lisp, its been
because I was trying to use it like I'd use something like C. Lisp is
a fundamentally different kind of environment and its hard to get used
to right away when you're coming from C & its ilk. On the other hand,
its quite interesting how making C/C++ somewhat more "lispy" often
makes for better code.
Gregm
adam connor wrote:
>
> Lowell <······@cs.ubc.ca> wrote in message news:<············@mughi.cs.ubc.ca>...
> > This is a great site that shows how to set up several different Lisp
> > implementations and how to set up Emacs to work with them:
> >
> > http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/windows.html
> >
>
> Speaking as a Lisp newbie myself, it was very useful, but Emacs has a
> learning curve of its own... I wish there was a more "Windows-y"
> editor for Lisp.
Emacs is far closer to Microsoft Word in look and feel than
either is to vi, which is for many programmers the alternative.
You can do basic editing with the mouse and the menus at the top
of your Emacs window. That should get you started. Then gradually
learn the keyboard shortcuts. Finally, if you feel so inclined,
learn some of the advanced features such as keyboard macros, and
borrow bits of Lisp from other Emacs users' .emacs files to extend
your Emacs, but many experienced Emacs users don't bother.
The big win in using Emacs is that it properly indents your code.
Most other editors are unaware of Lisp layout conventions.
> I am enjoying the process of learning Lisp (I'm using Paul Graham's
> book on ANSI Common Lisp), but the tools do form a barrier to entry.
This is a good book. I'd persevere with Emacs though.
Treat it like Word to begin with, and learn gradually, rather
than attempt to memorize all the keystrokes on day 1
(i.e. use the mouse to get to the start of the line
rather than C-a, use the scrollbars rather than C-v
and M-v).
HTH
--
:ugah179 (home page: http://web.onetel.com/~hibou/)
"I'm outta here. Python people are much nicer."
-- Erik Naggum (out of context)
OlaA wrote:
> I'm trying to learn Lisp, but it seems to be hard if you don't have Linux.
> I've been looking for an IDE for windows, but no luck..
>
see: http://www.alu.org/table/systems.htm#pcfree
HTH,
--ag
--
Artie Gold -- Austin, Texas
OlaA wrote:
> I'm trying to learn Lisp, but it seems to be hard if you don't have Linux.
> I've been looking for an IDE for windows, but no luck..
>
Try Googling on "lisp windows". the first link should be franz, where
you can then find a free AllegroCL (ACL) trial version to learn with:
http://www.franz.com/downloads/
I like ACL, others like Lispworks or Corman CL. Those have IDEs.
--
kenny tilton
clinisys, inc
http://www.tilton-technology.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------
"Everything is a cell." -- Alan Kay