New Dynamic Learning Center web site makes it easier for Lisp instructors
and students to do their homework!
********
A recent Gartner Group Study reporting a 70% failure rate of initial Java
applications, further strengthens Lisp's position as one of the few
programming languages robust and powerful enough to support the complex,
innovative applications of the future. Lisp learning tools will become more
important than ever, as developers turn to other technologies to build the
next generation of "killer apps."
A new web site, designed specifically for the Lisp academic community, is now
available. The Dynamic Learning Center (http://www.DynamicLearningCenter.com)
contains sample code and programming exercises for professors to incorporate
into their curriculum, as well as a Tester Application that makes it easier
to grade assignments.
The site was created to help lighten the workload of university professors and
provide them with a forum for sharing resources and information. All of the
materials in the site are free, and professors and instructors are encouraged
to submit additional code to help grow the repository.
For more information about The Dynamic Learning Center,
please visit http://www.DynamicLearningCenter.com
The Link to the ZDNet Article where the Gartner Group is quoted is at:
http://www.zdnet.com.au/newstech/enterprise/story/0,2000025001,20269968,00.htm
····@franz.com (Lisa Fettner) wrote in message news:<····························@posting.google.com>...
> New Dynamic Learning Center web site makes it easier for Lisp instructors
> and students to do their homework!
>
> ********
>
> A recent Gartner Group Study reporting a 70% failure rate of initial Java
> applications, further strengthens Lisp's position as one of the few
> programming languages robust and powerful enough to support the complex,
> innovative applications of the future.
Firstly, a Gartner Group Study doesn't support anything. Secondly, the
failure of a bunch of Java programmers don't support the strength of
anything non-Java, because to get a working Lisp replacement, you have
to get different programmers as well as a different language.
Moreover, if you imposed the Java tools onto Lisp programmers, they
would likely succeed anyway.
There is no reason to believe that failure rate figure, and even if it
is true, there is no reason to attribute it to the language itself.
Maybe because the language is popular, it attracts hordes of mediocre
programmers.
If Lisp were to suddenly become popular, we would see a heck of a lot
of terrible Lisp programming all over the place, and the language
would quickly become the scapegoat of idiots. In some ways, Lisp makes
the perfect scapegoat because it's different. You can always scapegoat
unusual people, movements, technologies, etc, based on the psychology
of hatred and fear of antyhing unusual.
> Lisp learning tools will become more
> important than ever, as developers turn to other technologies to build the
> next generation of "killer apps."
Those failed developers will turn to anything as long as it as curly
braces and lets them type a[i] = i++. You have no idea what kinds of
barriers exist.
Java has at least made garbage collection acceptable, that was one
little baby step forward.
> A new web site, designed specifically for the Lisp academic community, is now
> available.
Right, the Lisp academic commmunity, which is so deeply relevant, it
is squarely positioned to knock over Java! *LOL*
> The Dynamic Learning Center (http://www.DynamicLearningCenter.com)
> contains sample code and programming exercises for professors to incorporate
> into their curriculum, as well as a Tester Application that makes it easier
> to grade assignments.
Lots of schools push Scheme onto students, and yet Scheme isn't taking
over the world. The problem is lack of industry interest, so by the
upper level courses, it is abandoned in favor of C++, Java and
whatever. The schools teach what the industry wants. And there is a
good reason for that, because graduate students and profs have liasons
within the industry, such as in the form of joint projects.
I don't want to discourage you, but I hope you don't have any naive
illusions, that's all. :)
From: Kenny Tilton
Subject: Re: The Dynamic Learning Center is up and running! (www.DynamicLearningCenter.com)
Date:
Message-ID: <3E3C90C9.20705@nyc.rr.com>
Kaz Kylheku wrote:
> There is no reason to believe that failure rate figure, ...
No experience in the industry, eh? :)
Well, OK, I did not follow the English bit ("initial application"?) but
if they mean new projects never reach light of day 70% of the time, i
would have to say that is almost exactly the number I used yesterday,
viz, two in three don't make it to production.
> and even if it
> is true, there is no reason to attribute it to the language itself.
Right. The language chosen is merely symptomatic of the larger process,
ie, typical corporate group misthink.
> If Lisp were to suddenly become popular, we would see a heck of a lot
> of terrible Lisp programming all over the place, and the language
> would quickly become the scapegoat of idiots.
Be careful what we wish for?
:)
--
kenny tilton
clinisys, inc
http://www.tilton-technology.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------
"Cells let us walk, talk, think, make love and realize
the bath water is cold." -- Lorraine Lee Cudmore
From: ozan s yigit
Subject: Re: The Dynamic Learning Center is up and running! (www.DynamicLearningCenter.com)
Date:
Message-ID: <vi4isvzbgpl.fsf@blue.cs.yorku.ca>
···@ashi.footprints.net (Kaz Kylheku) writes [among other things]:
> Lots of schools push Scheme onto students, and yet Scheme isn't taking
> over the world. The problem is lack of industry interest, so by the
> upper level courses, it is abandoned in favor of C++, Java and
> whatever.
actually, based on curriculum surveys, scheme is nearly gone from early
years too, with a few diehard schemer departments being the exceptions.
oz
---
there is a fault in reality. do not adjust your minds. -- salman rushdie
ozan s yigit <··@blue.cs.yorku.ca> wrote in message news:<···············@blue.cs.yorku.ca>...
> ···@ashi.footprints.net (Kaz Kylheku) writes [among other things]:
>
> > Lots of schools push Scheme onto students, and yet Scheme isn't taking
> > over the world. The problem is lack of industry interest, so by the
> > upper level courses, it is abandoned in favor of C++, Java and
> > whatever.
>
> actually, based on curriculum surveys, scheme is nearly gone from early
> years too, with a few diehard schemer departments being the exceptions.
Good riddance. :)
Is there any online material regarding these surveys?
···@ashi.footprints.net (Kaz Kylheku):
> > actually, based on curriculum surveys, scheme is nearly gone from early
> > years too, with a few diehard schemer departments being the exceptions.
>
> Good riddance. :)
>
> Is there any online material regarding these surveys?
the only on-line survey i can readily quote is by mccauley & manaris
[http://www.cs.cofc.edu/~mccauley/TReports/]
"Comprehensive Report on the 2001 Survey of Departments Offering
CAC-Accredited Degree Programs"
a
i remember seeing another survey early this year; did not pay attention
to its origin, as it was similar to mccauley survey. these days, scheme is
as insignificant in first year teaching as is turing, pascal, C, etc. are
regardless of what a few prestigious institutions and their lucky
attendees may do. [i happen to think java is a fine start for
first year teaching]
oz
---
"what's this for?"
says the carpenter
as he cuts it off.
-- anonymous senryu, ca. 1800
From: ozan s yigit
Subject: Re: The Dynamic Learning Center is up and running! (www.DynamicLearningCenter.com)
Date:
Message-ID: <vi4n0l9tcua.fsf@blue.cs.yorku.ca>
ah, how embarrassing. this is the worst-formatted post i've made
since 1982. thanks a lot ···@····@!!! solaris opera over google!
(deinstall)
this is what i meant to post, minus the quoted question:
the only on-line survey i can readily quote is by mccauley & manaris
[http://www.cs.cofc.edu/~mccauley/TReports/] "Comprehensive Report on
the 2001 Survey of Departments Offering CAC-Accredited Degree Programs"
i remember seeing another survey early this year; did not pay attention
to its origin, as it was similar to mccauley survey. these days, scheme
is as insignificant in first year teaching as is turing, pascal, C, etc.
are regardless of what a few prestigious institutions and their lucky
attendees may do. [i happen to think java is a fine start for first
year teaching]
oz
---
"what's this for?"
says the carpenter
as he cuts it off.
-- anonymous senryu, ca. 1800
From: Thomas F. Burdick
Subject: Re: The Dynamic Learning Center is up and running! (www.DynamicLearningCenter.com)
Date:
Message-ID: <xcv8ywugls7.fsf@conquest.OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
ozan s yigit <··@blue.cs.yorku.ca> writes:
> ···@ashi.footprints.net (Kaz Kylheku) writes [among other things]:
>
> > Lots of schools push Scheme onto students, and yet Scheme isn't taking
> > over the world. The problem is lack of industry interest, so by the
> > upper level courses, it is abandoned in favor of C++, Java and
> > whatever.
>
> actually, based on curriculum surveys, scheme is nearly gone from early
> years too, with a few diehard schemer departments being the exceptions.
Yes, sure, I suppose you could say that. But at least MIT and
UC-Berkeley are among these "diehard" departments. Given their
promenance, I think they count for more than
(MIT students + UCB students) :: total students
--
/|_ .-----------------------.
,' .\ / | No to Imperialist war |
,--' _,' | Wage class war! |
/ / `-----------------------'
( -. |
| ) |
(`-. '--.)
`. )----'
From: Jeremy H. Brown
Subject: Re: The Dynamic Learning Center is up and running! (www.DynamicLearningCenter.com)
Date:
Message-ID: <uv6vfzxj4t7.fsf@tenebrae.ai.mit.edu>
···@conquest.OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Thomas F. Burdick) writes:
> Yes, sure, I suppose you could say that. But at least MIT and
> UC-Berkeley are among these "diehard" departments. Given their
> promenance, I think they count for more than
>
> (MIT students + UCB students) :: total students
>
Add CalTech to your list:
http://www.cs.caltech.edu/courses/cs1/
Jeremy