The latest cl-typesetting example is here:
http://www.fractalconcept.com/ex.pdf
It has not changed very much. The latest new stuff is the cl-pdf code128
barcode. (Thanks to Lars Rustemeier, it will be in the next cl-pdf release.)
I have not been able to find any time to work on it recently. I thought
others could help on this (You know, that Open Source theory...) but no. So
this is yet another call for contributors.
I naively assumed that there would be a correlation between interest to use
and interest to contribute. This is why I have been rather disappointed to
see the huge difference between the number of interested emails and posts on
the subject and the number of people who sent me some contribution (only 1)
or bugs/portability problems (only 2). :(
[I will now try some marketing tricks]
Here are some reasons why should you contribute to cl-typesetting:
-You like to write Common Lisp code.
-You want to show Pythonistas that Lispniks can write code.
-You want to show that Lisp does not need static typing
-You want to show that Lisp does not need to be purely functional
-You want to show that Common Lisp is not slow
-You want to show that macros are great
-You want to show that CLOS is great
-You what to show that Lisp is much better than C#, Java, Arc, Haskell,
Visual Basic, Python, Cobol, Fortran, Z80 assembly, Turing machines,
Mathematica, Scheme, C/C++, Forth, ML, Dylan, Logo, VHDL, Postscript, Pascal,
Modula, Prolog, Curl, XML, sh, Ruby, Ada, Javascript, etc.
-You want to do something useful
-You like TeX and would like to have a better one.
-You hate TeX and want something better and usable.
-You hate Word.
-You hate both.
-You hate HTML and want something better.
-You like HTML and want to see it rendered it correctly.
-etc.
[I probably missed some more obvious ones...]
Well now that you agree with a lot of these reasons, here are some things
needed by cl-typesetting. Contact me if you are interested. (This list is not
exhaustive.)
-User friendly syntaxes above the core syntax layer. (TeX syntax emulation,
markup languages, alternative languages like Scribble, etc...)
-Completing the tables. (multipage support, more options for the cells, cell
styles, etc.)
-Completing the math mode and adding standard math-syntaxes (TeX, mathML)
-Adding commands for things like lists, enumerated lists, choosing the
hyphenation language, etc.
-Improving the styles handling (paragraph, titles styles etc.)
-Adding higher level processing functions like tables of content, indexes,
sections/subsections numbering, etc.
-Adding stuff for easily defining page dimensions, headers, footers, margins,
etc.
-Completing and improving the core typesetting engine. (multi-lines
hyphenation, rivers, grid-mode, etc.)
-Native integration and improvement of the cl-pdf charts (pie, histogram,
lines, etc.)
-Making a stand alone executable so that non-lispers can use it.
-Making a typesetting server (webservice ?) so that non-lispers can use it.
-etc.
If you have other ideas, send them to me.
Marc
>>>>> "mb" == Marc Battyani <·············@fractalconcept.com> writes:
mb> I naively assumed that there would be a correlation between
mb> interest to use and interest to contribute. This is why I have
mb> been rather disappointed to see the huge difference between the
mb> number of interested emails and posts on the subject and the
mb> number of people who sent me some contribution (only 1) or
mb> bugs/portability problems (only 2). :(
if you make the source code available somewhere, perhaps more people
will take a look to see whether they can contribute something!
--
Eric Marsden <URL:http://www.laas.fr/~emarsden/>
Eric Marsden wrote:
>>>>>>"mb" == Marc Battyani <·············@fractalconcept.com> writes:
>
>
> mb> I naively assumed that there would be a correlation between
> mb> interest to use and interest to contribute. This is why I have
> mb> been rather disappointed to see the huge difference between the
> mb> number of interested emails and posts on the subject and the
> mb> number of people who sent me some contribution (only 1) or
> mb> bugs/portability problems (only 2). :(
>
> if you make the source code available somewhere, perhaps more people
> will take a look to see whether they can contribute something!
>
The party seems to be at: http://www.common-lisp.net/projects.shtml
kt
--
http://tilton-technology.com
Why Lisp? http://alu.cliki.net/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
Your Project Here! http://alu.cliki.net/Industry%20Application
Marc Battyani writes:
> I have not been able to find any time to work on it recently. I thought
> others could help on this (You know, that Open Source theory...) but no. So
> this is yet another call for contributors.
> I naively assumed that there would be a correlation between interest to use
> and interest to contribute. This is why I have been rather disappointed to
> see the huge difference between the number of interested emails and posts on
> the subject and the number of people who sent me some contribution (only 1)
> or bugs/portability problems (only 2). :(
I subscribe to dozens of Lisp mailing lists, yet I may have missed the
announcement of the public availability of the source code. Or not?
I probably don't have the skills and experience to write typesetting
software. I could tell for sure only after checking the source, but I
would prefer not to directly ask you for it. Wouldn't this exchange
disappoint you even more?
I: I can probably help with cl-typesetting
You: great, here is the code
I: after all, I can't help you, never mind
There are only a couple of things I can certainly do: report bugs and
spread the voice about cl-typesetting among Linux hackers. For the
latter I would at least need a link to a place with downloadable
source code, albeit Alpha or Beta quality.
Back to the bazaar.
Paolo
--
Why Lisp? http://alu.cliki.net/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
"Paolo Amoroso" <·······@mclink.it> wrote
> I subscribe to dozens of Lisp mailing lists, yet I may have missed the
> announcement of the public availability of the source code. Or not?
I announced here and on lispweb that I could send it to people interested to
work on it. I didn't made it available on a web site. I have just sent it by
email to everybody who asked for it.
> I probably don't have the skills and experience to write typesetting
> software. I could tell for sure only after checking the source, but I
> would prefer not to directly ask you for it. Wouldn't this exchange
> disappoint you even more?
>
> I: I can probably help with cl-typesetting
> You: great, here is the code
> I: after all, I can't help you, never mind
Yeah, I got exactly this several times :(
I have been more puzzled than disappointed as for me there are lots of things
that are really easy to do.
> There are only a couple of things I can certainly do: report bugs and
> spread the voice about cl-typesetting among Linux hackers. For the
> latter I would at least need a link to a place with downloadable
> source code, albeit Alpha or Beta quality.
Well I will probably put it on common-lisp.net
Marc
"Marc Battyani" <·············@fractalconcept.com> writes:
> I have not been able to find any time to work on it recently. I thought
> others could help on this (You know, that Open Source theory...) but no. So
> this is yet another call for contributors.
> I naively assumed that there would be a correlation between interest to use
> and interest to contribute. This is why I have been rather disappointed to
> see the huge difference between the number of interested emails and posts on
> the subject and the number of people who sent me some contribution (only 1)
> or bugs/portability problems (only 2). :(
I understand your disappointment, but. Please don't conclude that
c.l.l. readers are simply too lazy to contribute to a project they're
in principle interested in. First, expression of interest _is_ a kind
of contribution, I think. And there are quite a few legitimate reasons
not to contribute: lack of time and lack of expertise (not everybody
here is a Marc Battyani :-)) are probably the top two. Also, OS
development relies on the (easy) availability of sources. If you
posted the sources somewhere, people could play with it, find bugs,
report or fix them, see if they miss a feature, add it, whatever, and do
all this without any commitment (which is important, because most
people are already committed to lots of other things). It's no
guarantee though. I don't think anybody knows what's needed to get an
OS project off the ground. In cl-typesetting's case there might be
other reasons that hold it back. E.g. as a TeX user and a CL lover, I
consider myself very much in the target audience, and I'm very much
excited about cl-typesetting (even went so far as to pester my TeX
guru colleague with your sample output), but I probably won't be able
to swich over before the rest of the world does, and I can submit a
paper written in cl-typesetting instead of TeX.
Just my 0.02 HUFs.
Andras
"Simon Andr�s" <······@math.bme.hu> wrote :
> "Marc Battyani" <·············@fractalconcept.com> writes:
>
> > I have not been able to find any time to work on it recently. I thought
> > others could help on this (You know, that Open Source theory...) but no.
So
> > this is yet another call for contributors.
> > I naively assumed that there would be a correlation between interest to
use
> > and interest to contribute. This is why I have been rather disappointed
to
> > see the huge difference between the number of interested emails and posts
on
> > the subject and the number of people who sent me some contribution (only
1)
> > or bugs/portability problems (only 2). :(
>
> I understand your disappointment, but. Please don't conclude that
> c.l.l. readers are simply too lazy to contribute to a project they're
> in principle interested in. First, expression of interest _is_ a kind
> of contribution, I think. And there are quite a few legitimate reasons
> not to contribute: lack of time and lack of expertise (not everybody
> here is a Marc Battyani :-)) are probably the top two. Also, OS
> development relies on the (easy) availability of sources. If you
> posted the sources somewhere, people could play with it, find bugs,
> report or fix them, see if they miss a feature, add it, whatever, and do
> all this without any commitment (which is important, because most
> people are already committed to lots of other things). It's no
> guarantee though. I don't think anybody knows what's needed to get an
> OS project off the ground. In cl-typesetting's case there might be
> other reasons that hold it back. E.g. as a TeX user and a CL lover, I
> consider myself very much in the target audience, and I'm very much
> excited about cl-typesetting (even went so far as to pester my TeX
> guru colleague with your sample output), but I probably won't be able
> to swich over before the rest of the world does, and I can submit a
> paper written in cl-typesetting instead of TeX.
cl-typesetting is not aimed to replace TeX as a defacto standard for academic
papers. (Though I have been told by several people that more and more
publications ask for Word documents. :() It is intended as an alternative for
every other type of publication. ;-)
I personally use it a lot for document generation in my web applications.
As to the level of Lisp expertise needed, it is very variable. Some features
are really easy to add.
I think I will maybe try to put it on common-lisp.net
Marc
"Marc Battyani" <·············@fractalconcept.com> writes:
>
> cl-typesetting is not aimed to replace TeX as a defacto standard for academic
Too bad :-) Perhaps a (La)TeX backend would help.
> papers. (Though I have been told by several people that more and more
> publications ask for Word documents. :() It is intended as an alternative for
This is bad for both the contributors and the readers. And probably
bad for the editors, too, because my very limited experience with Word
shows that it is not even compatible with itself.
> every other type of publication. ;-)
>
> I personally use it a lot for document generation in my web applications.
These days I write more lecture notes kind of stuff than papers, and
I'd love to do the next in cl-typesetting! There's also a CL powered
website that I wrote/maintain, and it'd be great to be able to add a
'Get pdf version' button to some of the generated pages.
> As to the level of Lisp expertise needed, it is very variable. Some features
> are really easy to add.
Depends on who's doing it :-) But seriously, if you publish the
source, you give people a chance to realize this themselves. (And they
can track development by cvs update, so they always know exactly what
features are missing.)
> I think I will maybe try to put it on common-lisp.net
Great!
Andras
"Simon Andr�s" <······@math.bme.hu> wrote :
> "Marc Battyani" <·············@fractalconcept.com> writes:
...
> > I personally use it a lot for document generation in my web applications.
>
> These days I write more lecture notes kind of stuff than papers, and
> I'd love to do the next in cl-typesetting! There's also a CL powered
> website that I wrote/maintain, and it'd be great to be able to add a
> 'Get pdf version' button to some of the generated pages.
Sure, HTML is ill suited for printing.
> > As to the level of Lisp expertise needed, it is very variable. Some
features
> > are really easy to add.
>
> Depends on who's doing it :-) But seriously, if you publish the
> source, you give people a chance to realize this themselves. (And they
> can track development by cvs update, so they always know exactly what
> features are missing.)
Well I have been almost convinced by the posts and emails on the subject. I
will setup a CVS and we'll see if this works...
Marc
Marc Battyani wrote:
> "Simon Andr�s" <······@math.bme.hu> wrote :
>
>>"Marc Battyani" <·············@fractalconcept.com> writes:
>
> ...
>
>>>I personally use it a lot for document generation in my web applications.
>>
>>These days I write more lecture notes kind of stuff than papers, and
>>I'd love to do the next in cl-typesetting! There's also a CL powered
>>website that I wrote/maintain, and it'd be great to be able to add a
>>'Get pdf version' button to some of the generated pages.
>
>
> Sure, HTML is ill suited for printing.
>
>
>>>As to the level of Lisp expertise needed, it is very variable. Some
>
> features
>
>>>are really easy to add.
>>
>>Depends on who's doing it :-) But seriously, if you publish the
>>source, you give people a chance to realize this themselves. (And they
>>can track development by cvs update, so they always know exactly what
>>features are missing.)
>
>
> Well I have been almost convinced by the posts and emails on the subject. I
> will setup a CVS and we'll see if this works...
<g> Oh, yes, now you will be swamped with developers. Not! All that
happened was that the Savages of C.L.L. found a nit to pick with your
complaint about open source non-involvment by Lispniks and /then/ they
found the energy to do something, namely pound on you for not having cvs
access to the code.
Once you cure that flaw, they will mysteriously recede back into the
shadows and not even download the code they demanded you make available.
But it is still a good idea. :)
kt
--
http://tilton-technology.com
Why Lisp? http://alu.cliki.net/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
Your Project Here! http://alu.cliki.net/Industry%20Application
Kenny Tilton <·······@nyc.rr.com> writes:
> Marc Battyani wrote:
> >
> > Well I have been almost convinced by the posts and emails on the subject. I
> > will setup a CVS and we'll see if this works...
>
> <g> Oh, yes, now you will be swamped with developers. Not! All that
> happened was that the Savages of C.L.L. found a nit to pick with your
> complaint about open source non-involvment by Lispniks and /then/ they
> found the energy to do something, namely pound on you for not having cvs
> access to the code.
>
> Once you cure that flaw, they will mysteriously recede back into the
> shadows and not even download the code they demanded you make available.
Or download it, try it once, and then forget about it. So what? First,
the code will not be there just for us savages. Second, the fate of an
open source project depends on lots of factors. If Marc approaches
this enterprise with any other attitude than 'I find cl-typesetting
useful and fun to work on; if others will, too, great! If not, that's
their problem', it may turn sour for him, and then it's better not to
publish the code after all.
Also, maybe I read too much into your post (I noticed the grin, but
I'm not sure about its scope), but you seem to imply that those who
suggested that publishing the source may help Marc find contributors
are a bunch of freeloaders. I disagree. I'm not sure about the others
(myself included), but please exclude Paolo, since he is known as a
contributor to at least ilisp, the ALU website, maybe CMUCL, and is
generally a relentless propagandist for CL.
>
> But it is still a good idea. :)
>
Provided Marc does it without too much expectations.
Andras
Simon Andr�s writes:
> (myself included), but please exclude Paolo, since he is known as a
> contributor to at least ilisp, the ALU website, maybe CMUCL, and is
I have recently resigned as an ILISP maintainer.
Paolo
--
Why Lisp? http://alu.cliki.net/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
Paolo Amoroso <·······@mclink.it> writes:
> Simon Andr�s writes:
>
> > (myself included), but please exclude Paolo, since he is known as a
> > contributor to at least ilisp, the ALU website, maybe CMUCL, and is
>
> I have recently resigned as an ILISP maintainer.
Hmn, a rat deserting a sinking ship? :-)
Judging by the activity in my mailbox, it's clear that the reason
nobody can work on cl-typesetting is that they're all working on
Slime.
--
Fred Gilham ······@csl.sri.com
The only people who would be hurt by abandoning the Kyoto Protocol
would be several thousand people who make a living attending
conferences on global warming. -- Kirill Kondratiev
"Kenny Tilton" <·······@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
····························@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> <g> Oh, yes, now you will be swamped with developers. Not! All that
> happened was that the Savages of C.L.L. found a nit to pick with your
> complaint about open source non-involvment by Lispniks and /then/ they
> found the energy to do something, namely pound on you for not having cvs
> access to the code.
You mean Marc B has replaced Erann G as our favorite chew toy? I didn't get
the memo.... ;)
--
Coby Beck
(remove #\Space "coby 101 @ big pond . com")
Marc Battyani writes:
> cl-typesetting is not aimed to replace TeX as a defacto standard for academic
> papers. (Though I have been told by several people that more and more
> publications ask for Word documents. :() It is intended as an alternative for
I guess Don Knuth wouldn't publish in such journals ;-)
Paolo
--
Why Lisp? http://alu.cliki.net/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
"Paolo Amoroso" <·······@mclink.it> wrote
> Marc Battyani writes:
>
> > cl-typesetting is not aimed to replace TeX as a defacto standard for
academic
> > papers. (Though I have been told by several people that more and more
> > publications ask for Word documents. :() It is intended as an alternative
for
>
> I guess Don Knuth wouldn't publish in such journals ;-)
Well worse is better as usual...
Marc
On 2003-12-09 18:48:21, Marc Battyani wrote:
> (You know, that Open Source theory...)
Must have something to do with the source being open ...
Last time I checked there was no source. And your posting mentions
no address.