From: Raymond de Lacaze
Subject: NEW ALU WEBSITE!
Date: 
Message-ID: <64CdnZlFVOXv-aiiRVn-gw@speakeasy.net>
Folks,

It is with great pleasure that I would like to officially announce:

THE ALU HAS A BRAND NEW WEBSITE!

Check it out: http://www.alu.org

The old website is still accessible at:
http://www.alu.org/table/contents.htm

The new site contains alot more information about the ALU itself. Please
bear with us as additional content is added.

We are still working on migrating community-generated content from
http://alu.cliki.net to the actual ALU website. The pages at the Cliki site
can be edited by anybody at anytime and at this point I would like to
encourage you all to contribute to the Cliki site. This would be a big help
to the ALU and to the International Lisp Community.

Also note that the ALU has officially begun a membership drive. I will be
making a seperate post concerning this, but in the meantime you can visit:
http://www.alu.org/alu/alu-membership.clp

Finally, I would particulary like to  aknowledge Carl Shapiro, Paolo
Amoroso, Heow Eide-Goodman, Nick Levine (and myself :-)) who each donated
numerous hours to generate content and roll out this new website. I would
also like to thank the ALU Web Committee for it's efforts.

Cheers,

Ray

Raymond de Lacaze
ALU President
········@alu.org

From: Rainer Joswig
Subject: Re: NEW ALU WEBSITE!
Date: 
Message-ID: <joswig-740A25.06524610082003@news.fu-berlin.de>
In article <······················@speakeasy.net>,
 "Raymond de Lacaze" <········@alu.org> wrote:

<..>

> We are still working on migrating community-generated content from
> http://alu.cliki.net to the actual ALU website. The pages at the Cliki site
> can be edited by anybody at anytime and at this point I would like to
> encourage you all to contribute to the Cliki site. This would be a big help
> to the ALU and to the International Lisp Community.

Folks, make sure that there is no confusion with the other
popular CLIKI - which is specifically targetted at 'FREE' Lisp
software on Unix.

The alu.cliki.net site does not have that restriction!
All platforms and also links and descriptions of 'non-free'
Lisp software are encouraged.

<..>
From: Daniel Barlow
Subject: www.cliki.net vs alu.cliki.net (was Re: NEW ALU WEBSITE!)
Date: 
Message-ID: <87k79ik8mv.fsf_-_@noetbook.telent.net>
Jan Rychter <···@rychter.com> writes:

> Yes, the duplication is rather confusing. How about explicitly
> restricting the scope of each CLIKI, and including information about the
> other one?

Explicitly restricting how?  I'm open to ideas.  I and other CLiki
contributors do from time to time point out that some of the resources
it lists are offtopic for the site, but the anyone-can-edit nature
means that this is always after the event, and I (usually) at least
attempt to do it moderately politely.  Maybe that great British
understatement is getting in the way of effective communication ...

> BTW, The www.cliki.net site says:
>
>   This is a collection of links to and resources for free software
>   implemented in Common Lisp and available on Unix-like systems. Listed
>   software should satisfy the DFSG.
>
> but obviously it doesn't only contain information about software.

No, it has grown to include other stuff (like the documents,
tutorials, Young Lispers, Road to Lisp, etc - much of which is not
Debian-free or particularly related to Unix) around the edges.

I tolerate a certain amount of this for non-software resources such as
documents (a) because even the free software zealots don't seem to
have a particularly clear concept of what they want from a document -
witness the Debian people deciding that the Emacs Lisp manual is
non-free, and (b) because I don't have the time to crush the spirit of
volunteer contributors by heavy-handed editing and mass page deletion.
CLiki looks how it looks mostly because that's how the assembled
masses (thanks, masses) have made it look.

I'm less easy-going about the actual software it links to: when it
magically transforms into a CPAN-style hub for automated software
download and install (at the end of this month), I'd like to be able
to download and install stuff without worrying that it's going to stop
working after thirty days, or is noncommercial-use only, or requires
me to give up my firstborn son.  It's going to take me at _least_ nine
months to get a firstborn son, which is probbaly longer than even a
Flexlm managed license takes to arrange.

Now, the ALU cliki.  The first obvious problem is the name: and any
suggestions for changing this to avoid confusion would be welcome.
For the moment I will refer to it as "the ALU editable site".  The ALU
editable site was created after ILC2002 as an internal tool for the
ALU web committee to help us/them put a new ALU site together, and
later thrown open to the public to attempt to inject some juice into
this creation project (as a result of which we had the local user
group pages created, so I think this has been a useful change even if
it didn't give us an insta-ALU site).

So where do we go from here?  I'm not going to throw the original
CLiki open to all comers (Windows, commercial software, Scheme,
Autolisp) because my instinct is that this will tend to dilute it and
make it less useful.  You may disagree with my instinct here, but
unless you can demonstrate that it's incorrect i will continue to
cling to it.

So, the ALU editable site could usefully have some work done on it.

1) Various of the documents and tutorials could be migrated across,
   from CLiki, ideally in the process merging information with the
   resources pages on the read-only ALU site (anyone who wants to work
   on this, please do),

2) perhaps the RtL stuff could be moved across en masse.  If Kenny
   wants to give me a yea or nay on this, I can probably do it as a
   filesystem move, which should be easier for all concerned than a
   massive cut and paste operation.

3) better design and visuals.  The recent visual makeover for CLiki
   was contributed by Miles Egan (and subsequently bodged by me; any
   complaints you may have about it should not be addressed to him)
   and nobody other than Netscape 4 users can argue that it doesn't 
   look a lot prettier as a result
   
   (Oh, and people who can't read the new small font.  I'll fix that,
   promise)

   Anyway, a nice template for the ALU editable site, for preference
   based on the existing ALU design, would be very welcome.  Send an
   HTML document and CSS stylesheet, somewhere containing a sensible
   set of links for a cliki-like site (home, edit page, text
   formatting, search, etc) and I'll merge them in.  No immediate
   rush, though; it might be the end of August before I get as far as
   the next release anyway.

4) a domain name in alu.org would help further distinguish it from
   CLiki

5) Anything else.  I don't know, it's your site.  Whatever ideas you
   have, go see http://alu.cliki.net/Meta-discussion and then
   implement them.


-dan

-- 

   http://www.cliki.net/ - Link farm for free CL-on-Unix resources 
From: Thomas F. Burdick
Subject: Re: www.cliki.net vs alu.cliki.net (was Re: NEW ALU WEBSITE!)
Date: 
Message-ID: <xcvhe4m7d6v.fsf@famine.OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
Daniel Barlow <···@telent.net> writes:

> Now, the ALU cliki.  The first obvious problem is the name: and any
> suggestions for changing this to avoid confusion would be welcome.

What about just "the ALU wiki"?  I always read cliki as a contraction
of "the CL wiki".

-- 
           /|_     .-----------------------.                        
         ,'  .\  / | No to Imperialist war |                        
     ,--'    _,'   | Wage class war!       |                        
    /       /      `-----------------------'                        
   (   -.  |                               
   |     ) |                               
  (`-.  '--.)                              
   `. )----'                               
From: Joe Marshall
Subject: Re: www.cliki.net vs alu.cliki.net
Date: 
Message-ID: <isp0cm3w.fsf@ccs.neu.edu>
Daniel Barlow <···@telent.net> writes:

> It's going to take me at _least_ nine months to get a firstborn son...

Pipelining might help...