From: Lars Brinkhoff
Subject: Favourite Lisp books
Date: 
Message-ID: <85adal7p8i.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>
Yet another survey!

What is everyone's list of favourite, say, five to ten Lisp (or
related) books?  Rationales welcome.

(I may collect the answers in a CLiki page, so please indicate if you
don't want to grant me permission to copy from your post.)

-- 
Lars Brinkhoff,         Services for Unix, Linux, GCC, PDP-10, HTTP
Brinkhoff Consulting    http://www.brinkhoff.se/

From: Tayss
Subject: Re: Favourite Lisp books
Date: 
Message-ID: <5627c6fa.0308071042.162eb757@posting.google.com>
Lars Brinkhoff <·········@nocrew.org> wrote in message news:<··············@junk.nocrew.org>...
> What is everyone's list of favourite, say, five to ten Lisp (or
> related) books?  Rationales welcome.

- Handbook of Programming Languages, vol. 4: Functional and Logic
Programming Languages; edited by Peter Salus.

This series is written by a bunch of people who are considered experts
in their programming languages.  Vol. 4's sections are about Emacs
Lisp, Scheme, Guile, CLOS, and Prolog.  While this selection is
extremely odd (for exclusively using lisps in a book about functional
languages, and not putting CLOS in the oop language volume), it at
least makes a nice little lisp book.  I learned Emacslisp from it, and
the chapter on Scheme talked about its Algol influences, which is
usually missing in books like SICP or the Little/Seasoned Schemer
books.

I didn't read the other vol. 4 chapters, except part of the CLOS one. 
Definitely an underrated book.


- Programming Language Pragmatics by Michael Scott
This isn't really a lisp book, but it definitely talks about lisp a
lot.  I haven't read it completely (right now I'm taking a break and
reading the incredible AIMA), but I think there's a sense where lisp
is really part of any good conversation about programming languages.


- PAIP, by Norvig
Maybe everyone will mention this.  All I have to say is that Norvig
really shouldn't be teaching people things like the defun-memo macro. 
This and the disassemble function made it clear to me that CL is a
language that just doesn't fuck around.

In fact, I just realized that I memoized something in Java completely
stupidly months ago.  One is so trained in Java to be disciplined,
that the brain falls asleep and the fingers write unmaintainable code.


- SICP, by Abelson & the Sussmen
I always try to point the video lectures out:
http://www.swiss.ai.mit.edu/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/
I hope someone writes a modifiable version of this book online. 
Powerful book, but people should add things in the margins or as
footnotes, because it needs... to be completed in a way that it can't
be as purely a teaching text.  Sort of like an epic poem.  Concrete
Mathematics by Graham/Knuth/etc kinda did something like this, but as
dead-tree it couldn't go far on this theme.


Anyway, the funny thing is that I haven't written anything serious in
CL.  But other languages are intentionally limited in order to
constrain your thoughts, and it turns out that turning down their
facilities and writing a little code to do things in a more CLish way
sometimes leads to more maintainable code.  IMO; and as long as you're
not going to war with the other language.
From: Tayss
Subject: Re: Favourite Lisp books
Date: 
Message-ID: <5627c6fa.0308071600.544fe640@posting.google.com>
··········@yahoo.com (Tayss) wrote in message news:<····························@posting.google.com>...
> Anyway, the funny thing is that I haven't written anything serious in
> CL.  But other languages are intentionally limited in order to
> constrain your thoughts, and it turns out that turning down their
> facilities and writing a little code to do things in a more CLish way
> sometimes leads to more maintainable code.  IMO; and as long as you're
> not going to war with the other language.

I think I'll take a break from lisp.

Lisp lisp lisp Malkovich Malkovich Malkovich.
From: Donald Fisk
Subject: Re: Favourite Lisp books
Date: 
Message-ID: <3F3259C7.9944F442@enterprise.net>
Lars Brinkhoff wrote:
> 
> Yet another survey!
> 
> What is everyone's list of favourite, say, five to ten Lisp (or
> related) books?  Rationales welcome.

Are there that many? ;-)

Mine are:

Lisp, 1st edition, by Winston and Horn (sentimental reasons --
this was the book I learned Lisp from)

Ansi Common Lisp by Paul Graham
On Lisp by Paul Graham

Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs by Abelson
and Sussman (OK so it's Scheme, but does that matter?)

Artificial Intelligence Programming (Charniak. Riesbeck,
McDermott)

Paradigms of AI Programming by Norvig

The Anatomy of Lisp by Allen (this I learned to /implement/
Lisp from)

The Art of the MetaObject Protocol

CLTL2 by Steele

> Lars Brinkhoff,         Services for Unix, Linux, GCC, PDP-10, HTTP

-- 
:ugah179 (home page: http://web.onetel.com/~hibou/)

"I'm outta here.  Python people are much nicer."
                -- Erik Naggum (out of context)
From: Lars Brinkhoff
Subject: Re: Favourite Lisp books
Date: 
Message-ID: <85oez15z8r.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>
Donald Fisk <················@enterprise.net> writes:
> Lars Brinkhoff wrote:
> > What is everyone's list of favourite, five to ten Lisp books?
> Are there that many? ;-)

And more coming!  (Hurry, Apress!)

Any particular (partial) ranking among your favourites?

-- 
Lars Brinkhoff,         Services for Unix, Linux, GCC, PDP-10, HTTP
Brinkhoff Consulting    http://www.brinkhoff.se/
From: Paolo Amoroso
Subject: Re: Favourite Lisp books
Date: 
Message-ID: <8JsyPyNjVSK8YSXu3=AYoo4QUnM4@4ax.com>
On 07 Aug 2003 12:10:05 +0200, Lars Brinkhoff <·········@nocrew.org> wrote:

> What is everyone's list of favourite, say, five to ten Lisp (or
> related) books?  Rationales welcome.

1) SICP, 1st edition: it introduced me to the Lisp family of languages, and
   hooked me forever. It would be more appropriate to say that it was a
   lightning strike.
2) CLtL1: it got me curious about Common Lisp.
3) PAIP: it motivated me to learn Common Lisp.
4) Object Oriented Programming in Common Lisp: it got me fascinated with
   CLOS and object-oriented programming--in Lisp.
5) On Lisp: it made me feel the power of Lisp.

They are listed in roughly the same order I discovered and read them.


> (I may collect the answers in a CLiki page, so please indicate if you
> don't want to grant me permission to copy from your post.)

Have (de)fun, you are welcome to use my text for your survey.


Paolo
-- 
Paolo Amoroso <·······@mclink.it>
From: Markus Fix
Subject: Re: Favourite Lisp books
Date: 
Message-ID: <3F3384E2.3040206@bookfix.com>
Lars Brinkhoff wrote:
> What is everyone's list of favourite, say, five to ten Lisp (or
> related) books?  Rationales welcome.

"On Lisp" by Paul Graham
   I just love this book! In a way it shows that Macros are the
equivalent of /spells/ in role playing games. In fact they are
more powerful, because unlike /spells/ they also redefine the
rules of the game. Somewhat like the /Meta/-chess example in 
D.R.Hofstadters "Goedel, Escher, Bach". Rules that change the rules
to change rules.

"Performance and Evaluation of Lisp Systems" by R.P.Gabriel
   Very interesting if you're into the implementation details
of Lisp systems and want to understand efficiency issues involved.

"Successful Lisp" by David B. Lamkins
   My recommendation for Lisp beginners with some programming
background.

"Goedel, Escher, Bach" by D.R. Hofstadter
   Because it got me hooked on programming in general and Lisp
in particular at an early age.

"Patterns of Software" by R.P. Gabriel
   Because it explains alot about the context. I think this is
by far the best explanation of the /patterns/ metaphor regarding
programming.



 > (I may collect the answers in a CLiki page, so please indicate if you
 > don't want to grant me permission to copy from your post.)

Sure, go ahead!

-fix

-- 
------- Markus Fix http://www.bookfix.com/ --------
Don't fight forces, use them. -R.Buckminster Fuller
From: Erik Winkels
Subject: Re: Favourite Lisp books
Date: 
Message-ID: <87k79maebw.fsf@xs4all.nl>
Markus Fix <···@bookfix.com> wrote:
> 
> "Patterns of Software" by R.P. Gabriel
>    Because it explains alot about the context. I think this is
> by far the best explanation of the /patterns/ metaphor regarding
> programming.

As mentioned in this posting by Pascal Costanza:

        <······························@news.netcologne.de>

This book can now be downloaded from:

        http://www.dreamsongs.com/


Besides all the aforementioned books by other posters I also really
like "Object-Oriented Common Lisp" from Stephen Slade.  It is my main
paper reference.  (Maybe because it is the book I started CL with, or
do other people like it as well as a reference besides the Hyperspec?)


Erik
From: lin8080
Subject: Re: Favourite Lisp books
Date: 
Message-ID: <3F34FDA5.6ACAA7AF@freenet.de>
Lars Brinkhoff schrieb:

> What is everyone's list of favourite, say, five to ten Lisp (or
> related) books?  Rationales welcome.

Here is one for beginners. It is in German and contains basics on 300
pages. 

    Programmieren in COMMON LISP
             Otto Mayer
              2.Auflage
            Spektrum Verlag 1995 
      ISBN 3-86025-710-2 ~25,-Euros


else: I should go to ask the library about -Anatomy of lisp,
Mc.Graw-Hill, New York 1978, this title is on the top of my wish-list. 
(but since 2 weeks there is no rain and it is very hot outside (I insert
a isa graphic card and put the hds out off the box))

stefan
From: Lars Brinkhoff
Subject: Re: Favourite Lisp books
Date: 
Message-ID: <85n0eihsue.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>
lin8080 <·······@freenet.de> writes:
> I should go to ask the library about -Anatomy of lisp, Mc.Graw-Hill,
> New York 1978, this title is on the top of my wish-list.

As I understand it, Lisp in Small Pieces by Christian Queinnec is a
good alternative to Anatomy of Lisp.  Perhaps even better since
L.i.S.P. covers lexical scoping, which I believe A.o.L. doesn't.
(This is only what I've heard, I haven't read either of these.)

-- 
Lars Brinkhoff,         Services for Unix, Linux, GCC, PDP-10, HTTP
Brinkhoff Consulting    http://www.brinkhoff.se/
From: Thaddeus L Olczyk
Subject: Re: Favourite Lisp books
Date: 
Message-ID: <lqsdjvcduvli7u3e5ki7q5nn6i9v5khthu@4ax.com>
On 10 Aug 2003 09:31:05 +0200, Lars Brinkhoff <·········@nocrew.org>
wrote:

>lin8080 <·······@freenet.de> writes:
>> I should go to ask the library about -Anatomy of lisp, Mc.Graw-Hill,
>> New York 1978, this title is on the top of my wish-list.
>
>As I understand it, Lisp in Small Pieces by Christian Queinnec is a
>good alternative to Anatomy of Lisp.  Perhaps even better since
>L.i.S.P. covers lexical scoping, which I believe A.o.L. doesn't.
>(This is only what I've heard, I haven't read either of these.)
I thought Anatomy was long out of print.
--------------------------------------------------
Thaddeus L. Olczyk, PhD
Think twice, code once.
From: Frank A. Adrian
Subject: Re: Favourite Lisp books
Date: 
Message-ID: <c3C0b.1547$br1.52415@news.uswest.net>
Thaddeus L Olczyk wrote:

> I thought Anatomy was long out of print.

It is.  That doesn't mean that one can't get ones hands on it.  I had a
binder of photocopied pages for ten years before I was able to find a used
copy, though :-).  And, at the time, it was well worth it.  Nowdays,
Queinnec's "Lisp in Small Pieces" is a better book. But I'm still not
parting with my copy of Allen's book.

faa
From: Tayss
Subject: Re: Favourite Lisp books
Date: 
Message-ID: <5627c6fa.0308200623.127b6df0@posting.google.com>
I don't think it was announced anywhere, but a new Lisp In Small
Pieces edition slated to come out in October:
http://titles.cambridge.org/catalogue.asp?isbn=0521545668

Vaguely pisses me off since I'm not patient enough to order in
October, but it's for the best...  Price drop as well.


"Frank A. Adrian" <·······@ancar.org> wrote in message news:<····················@news.uswest.net>...
> Nowdays,
> Queinnec's "Lisp in Small Pieces" is a better book. But I'm still not
> parting with my copy of Allen's book.
From: Doug Tolton
Subject: Re: Favourite Lisp books
Date: 
Message-ID: <mo77kvstgo8vuodc982n1427prtv294cbu@4ax.com>
On 20 Aug 2003 07:23:46 -0700, ··········@yahoo.com (Tayss) wrote:

>I don't think it was announced anywhere, but a new Lisp In Small
>Pieces edition slated to come out in October:
>http://titles.cambridge.org/catalogue.asp?isbn=0521545668
>
>Vaguely pisses me off since I'm not patient enough to order in
>October, but it's for the best...  Price drop as well.
>
>
Yeah that vageuly pisses me off to since I just bought it about a
month ago...


Doug Tolton
(format t ···@~a~a.~a" "dtolton" "ya" "hoo" "com")
From: Tayss
Subject: Re: Favourite Lisp books
Date: 
Message-ID: <5627c6fa.0308201653.43002a41@posting.google.com>
Doug Tolton <·······@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<··································@4ax.com>...
> Yeah that vageuly pisses me off to since I just bought it about a
> month ago...

I've emailed Queinnec to find out if there's new info, or if it's
simply a weird late transition to paperback.  Your response made me
not want to spread buyer's remorse if possible. ;)
From: Edi Weitz
Subject: Re: Favourite Lisp books
Date: 
Message-ID: <874r0bfpgy.fsf@bird.agharta.de>
On 20 Aug 2003 17:53:36 -0700, ··········@yahoo.com (Tayss) wrote:

> I've emailed Queinnec to find out if there's new info, or if it's
> simply a weird late transition to paperback.

Could you be so nice to post his reply here? I'd buy it a second time
if it had new content. Or even if the translation got better. The
English text sounded kind of weird to my non-native ears.

Thanks,
Edi.
From: Tayss
Subject: Re: Favourite Lisp books
Date: 
Message-ID: <5627c6fa.0308210501.664c61cb@posting.google.com>
Edi Weitz <···@agharta.de> wrote in message news:<··············@bird.agharta.de>...
> Could you be so nice to post his reply here? I'd buy it a second time
> if it had new content. Or even if the translation got better. The
> English text sounded kind of weird to my non-native ears.

Definitely.
From: Tayss
Subject: Re: Favourite Lisp books
Date: 
Message-ID: <5627c6fa.0308210706.4a5992f4@posting.google.com>
Email below.  He does speak French, so I'll try not to read too much
into "not having the right to change a comma."  I knew I should've
gotten a friend to ask it in French. ;)

-----------------------

Tayss wrote/�crivit:
>> I see from http://titles.cambridge.org/catalogue.asp?isbn=0521545668
>> that there will be a new edition of LiSP in October.  Do you know
if
>> this will have new stuff, or is just a paperback version?

This is just a paperback version, I did not have the right to change a
comma! Sorry,

		Pr. C. Queinnec
From: Frank A. Adrian
Subject: Re: Favourite Lisp books
Date: 
Message-ID: <LET0b.80$LQ5.34128@news.uswest.net>
Tayss wrote:

> I don't think it was announced anywhere, but a new Lisp In Small
> Pieces edition slated to come out in October:
> http://titles.cambridge.org/catalogue.asp?isbn=0521545668

I hope they fix the few typographical errors and the places where some of
the comments and identifiers in the code were not translated properly
(although that adds a bit of charm to the book).  I also hope that this
edition will be paperback to lower the cost a bit.

faa
From: Valery
Subject: Re: Favourite Lisp books
Date: 
Message-ID: <bdbfa2d4.0308092025.24086836@posting.google.com>
Lars Brinkhoff <·········@nocrew.org> wrote in message news:<··············@junk.nocrew.org>...
> What is everyone's list of favourite, say, five to ten Lisp (or
> related) books?  Rationales welcome.
> (I may collect the answers in a CLiki page, so please indicate if you
> don't want to grant me permission to copy from your post.)

Lars, I can't find your updates at cliki.net 

--
Valery
From: Lars Brinkhoff
Subject: Re: Favourite Lisp books
Date: 
Message-ID: <85isp5ity8.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>
Thank you, everyone!  Here's the CLiki page:

  http://www.cliki.net/Favorite%20Lisp%20books

I will keep it updated if more answers come in.

-- 
Lars Brinkhoff,         Services for Unix, Linux, GCC, PDP-10, HTTP
Brinkhoff Consulting    http://www.brinkhoff.se/
From: Steve Zimmerman
Subject: Re: Favourite Lisp books
Date: 
Message-ID: <3F38B444.20906@sonic.net>
Lars Brinkhoff wrote:

> Thank you, everyone!  Here's the CLiki page:
> 
>   http://www.cliki.net/Favorite%20Lisp%20books
> 
> I will keep it updated if more answers come in.
> 
> 

It's not a book, but the info pages on librep
(`info librep' on Unix or Linux) are excellent.

The "rep" in librep stands for "read-eval-print".
From: Steve Zimmerman
Subject: Re: Favourite Lisp books
Date: 
Message-ID: <3F389ADC.7060205@sonic.net>
Lars Brinkhoff wrote:

> Yet another survey!
> 
> What is everyone's list of favourite, say, five to ten Lisp (or
> related) books?  Rationales welcome.
> 
> (I may collect the answers in a CLiki page, so please indicate if you
> don't want to grant me permission to copy from your post.)
> 
> 

_On Lisp_, by Paul Graham
_Common Lisp and Artificial Intelligence_, by Patrick R. Harrison
_Common Lisp_, by Guy Steele
_Franz Lisp_ (not sure if the title's correct; I think it's by the Franz
     Corp.)
From: Charles Blair
Subject: Re: Favourite Lisp books
Date: 
Message-ID: <slrnbjlppj.fus.chas@nirvana.lib.uchicago.edu>
i would add Robert Wilensky, Common LISPcraft, as a good supplement to
another book on Common LISP (e.g., Paul Graham, ANSI Common Lisp, or Stephen
Slade, Object-Oriented Common Lisp, both of which have been mentioned here).
it may be a bit dated, and i don't think it quite stands alone as a primer, 
but back then wilensky was an informed and enthusiastic writer about LISP.
From: Gareth McCaughan
Subject: Re: Favourite Lisp books
Date: 
Message-ID: <87oeyqy46c.fsf@g.mccaughan.ntlworld.com>
Lars Brinkhoff <·········@nocrew.org> writes:

> Yet another survey!
> 
> What is everyone's list of favourite, say, five to ten Lisp (or
> related) books?  Rationales welcome.

  1 Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming:
    Case Studies in Common Lisp. Peter Norvig.

    Possibly the best hardcore programming book ever.

  2 Lisp in Small Pieces (translated from the French
    "Les langages Lisp", or something of the kind).
    Christian Queinnec.

    A very nice in-depth look at the internal workings
    of Lisp-like languages. A bit too Schemey.

  3 Common Lisp: The Language (2nd ed.) Guy Steele.

    Appallingly out of date, but I found it a great way
    to learn the language. I am, however, a bit of a
    weirdo, so I don't guarantee that this particular
    preference will be very transferable.

  4 On Lisp. Paul Graham.

    Graham is a vigorous advocate of short, dense programs.
    Here are some fine examples of how to write them.

  5 Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs.
    Abelson, Sussman and Sussman.

    Way too Schemey :-) and not really about Lisp, but
    still deserves its fame.
    
> (I may collect the answers in a CLiki page, so please indicate if you
> don't want to grant me permission to copy from your post.)

Feel free, though I don't think there's anything terribly
interesting here :-).

-- 
Gareth McCaughan