What's out there for folk (me) who'd like to make a GUI application in
(Common) Lisp, but who doesn't want to shell out any money for Allegro
or Xanalys?
I don't really care about the platform, but I'm guessing that Linux is
where the answer is. I've used Xgcl - which is pretty good, but a little
too rigid, and CLX, which is a little crude for my tastes. Isn't there
something in the middle ground that won't cost me tons of money and
looks nice? Some sort of toolkit interface or something? No snappy
replies about buying a symbolics machine, either.
Jason
Jason Sewall <········@rocknroll.umcs.maine.edu> writes:
> What's out there for folk (me) who'd like to make a GUI application in
> (Common) Lisp, but who doesn't want to shell out any money for Allegro
> or Xanalys?
You might consider McCLIM, the free implementation of the CLIM 2
specification. See for instance http://www.cliki.net/CLIM for a
description of CLIM and McCLIM.
--
Robert Strandh
Robert STRANDH wrote:
> Jason Sewall <········@rocknroll.umcs.maine.edu> writes:
>
>
>>What's out there for folk (me) who'd like to make a GUI application in
>>(Common) Lisp, but who doesn't want to shell out any money for Allegro
>>or Xanalys?
>
>
> You might consider McCLIM, the free implementation of the CLIM 2
> specification. See for instance http://www.cliki.net/CLIM for a
> description of CLIM and McCLIM.
>
I tried to download McCLIM, but the www.mikemac.com site seems to be
down.Does anybody know an alternative download site?
Regards
Rolf Wester
Rolf Wester <······@ilt.fhg.de> writes:
> > You might consider McCLIM, the free implementation of the CLIM 2
> > specification. See for instance http://www.cliki.net/CLIM for a
> > description of CLIM and McCLIM.
> I tried to download McCLIM, but the www.mikemac.com site seems to be
> down.Does anybody know an alternative download site?
It seems to be back up now.
--
Robert Strandh
Robert STRANDH wrote:
> Rolf Wester <······@ilt.fhg.de> writes:
>
>
>>>You might consider McCLIM, the free implementation of the CLIM 2
>>>specification. See for instance http://www.cliki.net/CLIM for a
>>>description of CLIM and McCLIM.
>>
>>I tried to download McCLIM, but the www.mikemac.com site seems to be
>>down.Does anybody know an alternative download site?
>
>
> It seems to be back up now.
Thanks for your reply.
Unfortunately it still doesn't work for me. When requesting:
http://www.mikemac.com/mikemac/McCLIM/index.html
I again get:
The requested URL could not be retrieved.
I will try it again later.
Rolf
Rolf Wester <······@ilt.fhg.de> writes:
> Unfortunately it still doesn't work for me. When requesting:
>
> http://www.mikemac.com/mikemac/McCLIM/index.html
It works for me. Must be some weird intermittent problem.
You could also get the closure web browser at
http://www.stud.uni-karlsruhe.de/~unk6/closure/
which contains `an appropriate version of McCLIM'.
--
Robert Strandh
Jason Sewall <········@rocknroll.umcs.maine.edu> writes:
> What's out there for folk (me) who'd like to make a GUI application in
> (Common) Lisp, but who doesn't want to shell out any money for Allegro
> or Xanalys?
CAPI comes with the personal edition of LisWorks too.
Regards
Friedrich
* Friedrich Dominicus wrote:
> CAPI comes with the personal edition of LisWorks too.
Ah, but you miss the point. Commercial software, even if it's free,
is *evil* and must not be used. Remember, it's not about cost, it's
about your *eternal soul*: you will ROT IN HELL if you use any
software that is not personally purified by Lord Torvalds and his
prophet Stallman.
--tim
Quoth Tim Bradshaw <···@cley.com>:
> * Friedrich Dominicus wrote:
>> CAPI comes with the personal edition of LisWorks too.
>
> Ah, but you miss the point. Commercial software, even if it's free,
> is *evil* and must not be used. Remember, it's not about cost, it's
> about your *eternal soul*: you will ROT IN HELL if you use any
> software that is not personally purified by Lord Torvalds and his
> prophet Stallman.
What many don't realize is that Torvalds and Stallman don't get along
very well, to the point of not seeing much point in talking to one
another. Eric Raymond is also not much worth putting at the same
table...
--
output = reverse(····················@" "454aa")
http://cbbrowne.com/info/lisp.html
In MDDT, no one can hear you scream...
But everybody can hear you say "whoops!"
Christopher Browne <········@acm.org> writes:
>
> What many don't realize is that Torvalds and Stallman don't get along
> very well, to the point of not seeing much point in talking to one
> another.
Why should they?
> Eric Raymond is also not much worth putting at the same
> table...
Again what should they tell each other?
Friedrich
On Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:57:14 +0100, Tim Bradshaw wrote:
> * Friedrich Dominicus wrote:
>> CAPI comes with the personal edition of LisWorks too.
>
> Ah, but you miss the point. Commercial software, even if it's free,
> is *evil* and must not be used.
I do not know what is wrong with free software. I should not take it for
mission critical applications but most applications are not of this type.
And there are many examples of free software of high quality. Of course,
if you live on providing software and you have to compete with (against?)
free software, I understand your feelings.
--
jb
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On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 19:21:17 +0100, Tim Bradshaw wrote:
>> I do not know what is wrong with free software.
>
> Its advocates.
I see.
Fortunately, in these hard times, being on our own, there is still a
beacon of hope, as long as we have a Warden of the Spirit of the News
Group.
--
Janos Blazi
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* jblazi wrote:
> I see.
> Fortunately, in these hard times, being on our own, there is still a
> beacon of hope, as long as we have a Warden of the Spirit of the News
> Group.
I love news articles which are obviously grammatical and coherent, but
where I can get no semantics at all from them!
--tim
In article <···············@cley.com>, Tim Bradshaw <···@cley.com>
wrote:
>* jblazi wrote:
>> I see.
>> Fortunately, in these hard times, being on our own, there is still a
>> beacon of hope, as long as we have a Warden of the Spirit of the News
>> Group.
>
>I love news articles which are obviously grammatical and coherent, but
>where I can get no semantics at all from them!
>
>--tim
The procedure is actually quite simple. First you arrange things
into groups. Of course, one pile may be sufficient depending on
how much there is to do. If you have to go somewhere else due to
lack of facilities, that is the next step; otherwise you are pretty
well set. It is important not to overdo things. That is, it is
better to do too few things at once than too many. In the short run
this may not seem important, but complications can arise. A mistake
can prove expensive as well. At first the whole procedure will seem
complicated. Soon, however, it will become just another facet of
life. It is difficult to foresee any end to the necessity for this
task in the immediate future, but one can never tell. After the
procedure is completed, one arranges the materials into different
groups again. Then they can be put into their appropriate places.
Eventually they will all be used once more, and the whole cycle
will have to be repeated. However, that is part of life.
(Semantics to follow tomorrow...)
In article <··························@news.vanderbilt.edu>,
sv0f <····@vanderbilt.edu> wrote:
WASHING CLOTHES:
>The procedure is actually quite simple. First you arrange things
>into groups. Of course, one pile may be sufficient depending on
>how much there is to do. If you have to go somewhere else due to
>lack of facilities, that is the next step; otherwise you are pretty
>well set. It is important not to overdo things. That is, it is
>better to do too few things at once than too many. In the short run
>this may not seem important, but complications can arise. A mistake
>can prove expensive as well. At first the whole procedure will seem
>complicated. Soon, however, it will become just another facet of
>life. It is difficult to foresee any end to the necessity for this
>task in the immediate future, but one can never tell. After the
>procedure is completed, one arranges the materials into different
>groups again. Then they can be put into their appropriate places.
>Eventually they will all be used once more, and the whole cycle
>will have to be repeated. However, that is part of life.
On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:25:32 +0100, Tim Bradshaw wrote:
> I love news articles which are obviously grammatical and coherent, but
> where I can get no semantics at all from them!
The explanation may be interesting.
The meaning of your previous message, to which I responded, was not
completely obvious either. I am afraid my English lets me down here.
Your message could have different meanings. I chose *one* of these
possible meanings and responded to the message, I thought you had wanted
to get across. (Vow! Plusquam perfect!)
But it seems that I chose the wrong meaning, otherwise you would have
understood what I meant.
--
jb
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"jblazi" <······@hotmail.com> wrote in message
···································@hotmail.com...
> Your message could have different meanings. I chose *one* of these
> possible meanings and responded to the message, I thought you had wanted
> to get across. (Vow! Plusquam perfect!)
> But it seems that I chose the wrong meaning, otherwise you would have
> understood what I meant.
Well, I understood what you meant as well as what you meant to mean though
what Tim meant to say was he didn't mean what you thought he meant otherwise
your intended meaning would have been apparent. Which means the meaning in
your second message depended apon the inferred meaning of your first message
and the meaning of Tim's response interpreted by understanding the meaning
he took from you, rather than the meaning you meant. If you know what I
mean...
(Just having fun, I don't mean to be mean ;)
--
Coby Beck
(remove #\Space "coby 101 @ bigpond . com")
On 14 Apr 2003 12:57:14 +0100, Tim Bradshaw <···@cley.com> wrote:
> * Friedrich Dominicus wrote:
>> CAPI comes with the personal edition of LisWorks too.
>
> Ah, but you miss the point. Commercial software, even if it's free,
> is *evil* and must not be used.
The personal edition of Lispworks had a heap limit of (IIRC) 18 megs
last I looked, which can easily be a problem for many applications
(e.g. image processing) that you might want to do for fun. So it may
not be an option even for people who don't care about free in the GNU
sense.
Jason Sewall <········@rocknroll.umcs.maine.edu> writes:
> What's out there for folk (me) who'd like to make a GUI application in
> (Common) Lisp, but who doesn't want to shell out any money for Allegro
> or Xanalys?
>
> I don't really care about the platform, but I'm guessing that Linux is
> where the answer is. I've used Xgcl - which is pretty good, but a
> little too rigid, and CLX, which is a little crude for my
> tastes. Isn't there something in the middle ground that won't cost me
> tons of money and looks nice? Some sort of toolkit interface or
> something? No snappy replies about buying a symbolics machine, either.
>
> Jason
Under CMUCL you can try CLM, that is CL binding for Motif.
There are two possible drawbacks: it is only for Motif 1.x and isn't
documented very well. But I believe they are not deadly ones.
Aleksandr Skobelev <···········@list.ru> wrote in message news:<··············@list.ru>...
> Under CMUCL you can try CLM, that is CL binding for Motif.
> There are two possible drawbacks: it is only for Motif 1.x and isn't
> documented very well. But I believe they are not deadly ones.
I am working on this right now, a tutorial and a reference will be out
real-soon-now.
There is a document which teaches you about the API naming convention
and how it
differs from the C API. There is also another document in the
cmuclencyclopedia
(courtesy of Paolo Amoroso) which describes the _standard_ CLM API
(CMUCL's
implementation changes a few things .. for performance.)
IMO, if you want to get started quickly, get CMUCL and the source
code. Also, get
the Motif manuals (the official ones are somewhere on O'Reilly's site,
google.)
I have documented all the useful symbols in the TOOLKIT package (using
DESCRIBE,
DOCUMENTATION, source code reading and DO-EXTERNAL-SYMBOLS.) and I can
throw them
your way, if you need them quickly.
Hi Jason Sewall,
> What's out there for folk (me) who'd like to make a GUI application in
> (Common) Lisp, but who doesn't want to shell out any money for Allegro
> or Xanalys?
For GTK+ (on Linux):
rep-gtk if you don't want a Common Lisp:
http://rep-gtk.sourceforge.net/
cl-gtk if you are prepared to GPL your program (assuming you want to
distribute it):
http://www.cliki.net/cl-gtk
http://tenkan.org/clgtk/index.html
(I just checked out COPYING in clgtk-0.2 and it's the GPL v2)
cl-glade, which appears to be completely free:
http://www.cliki.net/cl-glade
http://www.cs.uit.no/~frodef/sw/cl-glade/
clg, available under the LGPL according to Sourceforge:
http://www.cliki.net/clg
http://sourceforge.net/projects/clg
The projects might give you some idea how to role your own.
> I don't really care about the platform, but I'm guessing that Linux is
> where the answer is. I've used Xgcl - which is pretty good, but a little
> too rigid, and CLX, which is a little crude for my tastes. Isn't there
> something in the middle ground that won't cost me tons of money and
> looks nice? Some sort of toolkit interface or something? No snappy
> replies about buying a symbolics machine, either.
GNOME 2 applications look nice. So targeting the GTK widget set for GNOME
2 would be an option.
Regards,
Adam
Regarding those Gnome/Gtk+ choices, are any of recent enough vintage
to build on SBCL? I'm not the original poster, but of course could use
the answer as well. It wasn't too hard to get lisp2wish working, but
haven't played with it enough to do much more than play with its
example buttons. (and learn some more Tk, it's been a while)
Tim
--
"This country has come to feel the same when Congress is in session as
when the baby gets hold of a hammer."
--Will Rogers
Adam Warner wrote:
> Hi Jason Sewall,
>
>
>>What's out there for folk (me) who'd like to make a GUI application in
>>(Common) Lisp, but who doesn't want to shell out any money for Allegro
>>or Xanalys?
>
>
> For GTK+ (on Linux):
[rep-gtk (not CL) and cl-gtk (GPL is too strong here) snipped]
> cl-glade, which appears to be completely free:
> http://www.cliki.net/cl-glade
> http://www.cs.uit.no/~frodef/sw/cl-glade/
It is written for Allegro, though, but the README claims it should be
reasonably easy to port. The latest version (cl-glade 0.23) is
timestamped December 1999.
> clg, available under the LGPL according to Sourceforge:
> http://www.cliki.net/clg
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/clg
Is claims to be written for CMUCL, but needs porting to CMUCL 18e. It
(clg-0.51) is timestamped March 2000, so I guess that the FFI has
changed since then.
> The projects might give you some idea how to role your own.
Or maybe revive clg or cl-glade.
/Sverker
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw when Sverker Wiberg <··············@uab.ericsson.se> would write:
> Adam Warner wrote:
>> clg, available under the LGPL according to Sourceforge:
>> http://www.cliki.net/clg
>> http://sourceforge.net/projects/clg
>
> Is claims to be written for CMUCL, but needs porting to CMUCL 18e. It
> (clg-0.51) is timestamped March 2000, so I guess that the FFI has
> changed since then.
.. And GTK has changed a bit since then, no doubt...
--
(reverse (concatenate 'string ·············@" "enworbbc"))
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/sap.html
"CANADA: 132 years in the same location! Open to serve you 24 hours
per day, 7 days per week. Now with 3 Territories!"
Christopher Browne <········@acm.org> writes:
> Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw when Sverker Wiberg <··············@uab.ericsson.se> would write:
> > Adam Warner wrote:
> >> clg, available under the LGPL according to Sourceforge:
> >> http://www.cliki.net/clg
> >> http://sourceforge.net/projects/clg
> >
> > Is claims to be written for CMUCL, but needs porting to CMUCL 18e. It
> > (clg-0.51) is timestamped March 2000, so I guess that the FFI has
> > changed since then.
>
> .. And GTK has changed a bit since then, no doubt...
I've missed the head of this thread somehow, so I'm probably way OT.
I'd just like to mention that CL-GTK exists, and works well enough
(with GTK 2.0 and CMUCL) to scratch my itches.
CL-GTK is LGPL, not GPL.
CL-GTK is where I do my /comfort hacking/ [1] these days, but I have a
whole ton of real work on my plate at the moment, so it's languishing
a little. I'll be glad to work with anybody who wants to use it to
scratch another itch, to the extent that I have time.
You can grab CL-GTK from here: http://tenkan.org/clgtk/ .
-Tim
--
1. comfort hacking - hacking code or tinkering with computers as a way
to work out stress or generally feel better. -Greg Sullivan
See http://www.ai.mit.edu/~gregs/comforthacking.html .