I am working on implementing a lisp interpreter,
and i have get some source code from other projects,
but i could not understand them well because lack
knowledge on interpreter. I have tried to find
some information, but only found some book about
compiler. Are there some book or anything else
about interpreter?
Thanks for any help.
-------------------------------------------------------
Blue Lee
Programer ,Big software
From: Erik Naggum
Subject: Re: About the realization of an interpreter
Date:
Message-ID: <3240639480036668@naggum.no>
* Blue Lee <········@neusoft.com>
| I am working on implementing a lisp interpreter,
Why?
--
Erik Naggum, Oslo, Norway
Act from reason, and failure makes you rethink and study harder.
Act from faith, and failure makes you blame someone and push harder.
Erik Naggum wrote:
> * Blue Lee <········@neusoft.com>
> | I am working on implementing a lisp interpreter,
>
> Why?
>
My boss's command.
From: Friedrich Dominicus
Subject: Re: About the realization of an interpreter
Date:
Message-ID: <873csigi52.fsf@fbigm.here>
Blue Lee <········@neusoft.com> writes:
> Erik Naggum wrote:
> > * Blue Lee <········@neusoft.com>
> > | I am working on implementing a lisp interpreter,
> > Why?
>
> >
>
>
>
> My boss's command.
Does he/she (your boss) know about diverse Common Lisp implementatons?
It's probably not a very good idea to re-implement that all.
Why not use a "stable" implementation?
Regards
Friedrich
Blue Lee wrote:
>
> Erik Naggum wrote:
> > * Blue Lee <········@neusoft.com>
> > | I am working on implementing a lisp interpreter,
> >
> > Why?
There are several reasons for doing this: improving your
knowledge of computer science, research into language
design, etc.
> My boss's command.
This is not a good reason, though. Point out to your boss
that he would save the company money by using an existing
implementation.
Le Hibou
--
Dalinian: Lisp. Java. Which one sounds sexier?
RevAaron: Definitely Lisp. Lisp conjures up images of hippy coders,
drugs,
sex, and rock & roll. Late nights at Berkeley, coding in Lisp fueled by
LSD.
Java evokes a vision of a stereotypical nerd, with no life or social
skills.
Donald Fisk wrote:
> Dalinian: Lisp. Java. Which one sounds sexier? RevAaron: Definitely Lisp. Lisp conjures up images of hippy coders, drugs, sex, and rock & roll. Late nights at Berkeley, coding in Lisp fueled by LSD. Java evokes a vision of a stereotypical nerd, with no life or social skills.
who is Dalinian?
who is RevAaron?
ilias wrote:
> who is Dalinian?
> who is RevAaron?
I'm sorry, I haven't a clue, but the exchange between them is
from Slashdot, in a discussion on Erann Gat's paper "Lisp as
an Alternative to Java".
Le Hibou
--
Dalinian: Lisp. Java. Which one sounds sexier?
RevAaron: Definitely Lisp. Lisp conjures up images of hippy coders,
drugs,
sex, and rock & roll. Late nights at Berkeley, coding in Lisp fueled by
LSD.
Java evokes a vision of a stereotypical nerd, with no life or social
skills.
Donald Fisk wrote:
> ilias wrote:
>
>> who is Dalinian?
>> who is RevAaron?
>
> I'm sorry, I haven't a clue, but the exchange between them is
> from Slashdot, in a discussion on Erann Gat's paper "Lisp as
> an Alternative to Java".
>
> Le Hibou
> --
> Dalinian: Lisp. Java. Which one sounds sexier?
> RevAaron: Definitely Lisp. Lisp conjures up images of hippy coders,
> drugs,
> sex, and rock & roll. Late nights at Berkeley, coding in Lisp fueled by
> LSD.
> Java evokes a vision of a stereotypical nerd, with no life or social
> skills.
:)
I lived in Berkeley for a while. Even went to Blake's. Trust me when I say
this: Berkeley has quite a few nerds. BTW I wonder if anyone can write more
than 0.2 lines of code per minute while hopped up on pot.
Cheers,
Oleg
On Wed, 11 Sep 2002 02:10:20 -0400, Oleg <············@myrealbox.com>
wrote:
>BTW I wonder if anyone can write more than 0.2 lines of code per minute while hopped up on pot.
>
One can get an unbelievable amount of mundane coding done when
reasonably *comfortable* on pot. But solving difficult problems seems
like an idiotic waste of time (why? when you already *are* happy... if
you know what I mean :)
though, this experience was with C not Lisp... still learning Lisp...
:D
quasi
Oleg wrote:
> I lived in Berkeley for a while. Even went to Blake's. Trust me when I say
> this: Berkeley has quite a few nerds.
Do they write Lisp or Java?
> BTW I wonder if anyone can write more
> than 0.2 lines of code per minute while hopped up on pot.
I know someone who did much of his programming under the influence of
cannabis. In terms of lines of code, he was the most productive
programmer I've ever met. The code was also surprisingly bug free.
It was nowhere near perfect though -- it was often possible to cut
it down to less than a tenth of its original size without loss of
functionality. But even allowing for that (which may have been
nothing to do with the cannabis), the guy was still very productive.
It's just anecdotal evidence, of course. I don't expect you'll
find many papers on "influence of recreational drugs on programmer
productivity", though New Scientist a few years back did have an
article about their influence on spiders' web building. The
spider on caffeine had the worst web.
Counting lines of code is a poor way of measuring productivity between
programmers. (And between languages -- what is a line of Prograph?)
FWIW your figure of 0.2 lines per minute comes to 12 per hour, or 90
per day. Most studies, for what they're worth, have concluded that
the average programmer writes around 10-20 lines of documented,
debugged, code per day, and that this is roughly independent of
language. However, there's a factor of at least 10 difference
among programmers. Relevant language/productivity comparisons
include Erann Gat's study (well known around these parts) and "A
comparison between Erlang and C++ for Implemention of Telecom
applications".
> Oleg
Le Hibou
--
Dalinian: Lisp. Java. Which one sounds sexier?
RevAaron: Definitely Lisp. Lisp conjures up images of hippy coders,
drugs,
sex, and rock & roll. Late nights at Berkeley, coding in Lisp fueled by
LSD.
Java evokes a vision of a stereotypical nerd, with no life or social
skills.
Donald Fisk <···············@enterprise.net> writes:
> among programmers. Relevant language/productivity comparisons
> include Erann Gat's study (well known around these parts) and "A
> comparison between Erlang and C++ for Implemention of Telecom
> applications".
The latter comparison sounds interesting. Do you have any
references to it?
--
Raymond Wiker Mail: ·············@fast.no
Senior Software Engineer Web: http://www.fast.no/
Fast Search & Transfer ASA Phone: +47 23 01 11 60
P.O. Box 1677 Vika Fax: +47 35 54 87 99
NO-0120 Oslo, NORWAY Mob: +47 48 01 11 60
Try FAST Search: http://alltheweb.com/
Raymond Wiker wrote:
>
> Donald Fisk <···············@enterprise.net> writes:
>
> > among programmers. Relevant language/productivity comparisons
> > include Erann Gat's study (well known around these parts) and "A
> > comparison between Erlang and C++ for Implemention of Telecom
> > applications".
>
> The latter comparison sounds interesting. Do you have any
> references to it?
www.erlang.se/publications/index.shtml contains a link to it.
> Raymond Wiker Mail: ·············@fast.no
Le Hibou
--
Dalinian: Lisp. Java. Which one sounds sexier?
RevAaron: Definitely Lisp. Lisp conjures up images of hippy coders,
drugs,
sex, and rock & roll. Late nights at Berkeley, coding in Lisp fueled by
LSD.
Java evokes a vision of a stereotypical nerd, with no life or social
skills.
Donald Fisk wrote:
> Oleg wrote:
>
>> I lived in Berkeley for a while. Even went to Blake's. Trust me when I
>> say this: Berkeley has quite a few nerds.
>
> Do they write Lisp or Java?
Don't ask me. I don't talk to nerds, so I wouldn't know.
Oleg
From: Basile STARYNKEVITCH
Subject: Re: About the realization of an interpreter
Date:
Message-ID: <q5rit1dssyc.fsf@hector.lesours>
>>>>> "Blue" == Blue Lee <········@neusoft.com> writes:
Blue> I am working on implementing a lisp interpreter, and i have
Blue> get some source code from other projects, but i could not
Blue> understand them well because lack knowledge on
Blue> interpreter. I have tried to find some information, but only
Blue> found some book about compiler. Are there some book or
Blue> anything else about interpreter?
There is an excellent book by Christian Queinnec on this very subject.
See http://youpou.lip6.fr/queinnec/WWW/LiSP.html
You might need to learn (or use an existing) garbage collector.
On garbage collections, there is a book by Jones & Lins.
Regards.
--
Basile STARYNKEVITCH http://starynkevitch.net/Basile/
email: basile<at>starynkevitch<dot>net
alias: basile<at>tunes<dot>org
8, rue de la Fa�encerie, 92340 Bourg La Reine, France
From: Andreas Hinze
Subject: Re: About the realization of an interpreter
Date:
Message-ID: <3D7E289B.B6DBF6D9@smi.de>
Basile STARYNKEVITCH wrote:
> There is an excellent book by Christian Queinnec on this very subject.
> See http://youpou.lip6.fr/queinnec/WWW/LiSP.html
>
> You might need to learn (or use an existing) garbage collector.
>
> On garbage collections, there is a book by Jones & Lins.
There is also a nice survey from Paul R. Wilson called
"Uniprocessor Garbage Collection Techniques" available on the WEB.
Best
AHz
Basile STARYNKEVITCH <·········@SPAM+starynkevitch.net.invalid> writes:
> >>>>> "Blue" == Blue Lee <········@neusoft.com> writes:
>
> Blue> I am working on implementing a lisp interpreter, and i have
> Blue> get some source code from other projects, but i could not
> Blue> understand them well because lack knowledge on
> Blue> interpreter. I have tried to find some information, but only
> Blue> found some book about compiler. Are there some book or
> Blue> anything else about interpreter?
>
> There is an excellent book by Christian Queinnec on this very subject.
> See http://youpou.lip6.fr/queinnec/WWW/LiSP.html
Amazon.de says 97.92 EUR ! That is even more expensive than "PC Intern
6" ...
> On garbage collections, there is a book by Jones & Lins.
That costs 69.00 EUR ... Why is education *that* expensive?
Regards,
Julian
In article <··············@jmmr.no-ip.com>, J.St. wrote:
> Basile STARYNKEVITCH <·········@SPAM+starynkevitch.net.invalid> writes:
>
>> >>>>> "Blue" == Blue Lee <········@neusoft.com> writes:
>>
>> Blue> I am working on implementing a lisp interpreter, and i have
>> Blue> get some source code from other projects, but i could not
>> Blue> understand them well because lack knowledge on
>> Blue> interpreter. I have tried to find some information, but only
>> Blue> found some book about compiler. Are there some book or
>> Blue> anything else about interpreter?
>>
>> There is an excellent book by Christian Queinnec on this very subject.
>> See http://youpou.lip6.fr/queinnec/WWW/LiSP.html
>
> Amazon.de says 97.92 EUR ! That is even more expensive than "PC Intern
> 6" ...
>
>> On garbage collections, there is a book by Jones & Lins.
>
> That costs 69.00 EUR ... Why is education *that* expensive?
It takes a lot of work to produce good books by smart and dedicated
people, do you want them to do something else to earn a living?
And the true "expense" is the time it takes to learn what the book
has to say. It is still *MUCH* cheaper to do it this way then the
alternative, doing your own research. Especially when you may spend
years rediscovering what you could have learned in months or never
figure it out at all. You may get lucky and figure out something new,
but it is unlikely.
marc
>
> Regards,
> Julian
J.St. wrote:
> Amazon.de says 97.92 EUR ! That is even more expensive than "PC Intern
> 6" ...
Lol! (You *are* joking, aren't you?)
>>On garbage collections, there is a book by Jones & Lins.
> That costs 69.00 EUR ... Why is education *that* expensive?
...because, IMHO and having spent a little time looking at these things,
this book is about as good a book on GC as there is.
Anyway, this is a bit like asking why Misner and Thorne, Hennessey and
Patterson or PAIP are *so* expensive. They aren't...
:)w
In article <············@helle.btinternet.com>, Will Deakin
<···········@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Anyway, this is a bit like asking why Misner and Thorne
Misner and Thorne?
sv0f wrote:
> Misner and Thorne?
Since I've been requested not to ask people to type ;)
www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0716703440/202-8545952-8663819
(I could -- or maybe should -- have also referenced Landau and Lifshitz)
:)w
In article <············@venus.btinternet.com>, Will Deakin
<···········@hotmail.com> wrote:
>sv0f wrote:
>> Misner and Thorne?
>Since I've been requested not to ask people to type ;)
>
>www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0716703440/202-8545952-8663819
Thanks.
In a weird coincidence, this book was mentioned in a Slashdot
story yesterday on good physics books for beginners. You
(and Tim Bradshaw) might find it interesting but demoralizing.
Will Deakin <···········@hotmail.com> writes:
> J.St. wrote:
> > Amazon.de says 97.92 EUR ! That is even more expensive than "PC Intern
> > 6" ...
> Lol! (You *are* joking, aren't you?)
No. I bought PC Intern (the book, not some magazine) as US Import at a
price of about 130 DM (65 EUR). 98 EUR for "Lisp in small pieces" is
no joke either, at least according to amazon.de.
> >>On garbage collections, there is a book by Jones & Lins.
> > That costs 69.00 EUR ... Why is education *that* expensive?
> ...because, IMHO and having spent a little time looking at these
> things, this book is about as good a book on GC as there is.
>
> Anyway, this is a bit like asking why Misner and Thorne, Hennessey and
> Patterson or PAIP are *so* expensive. They aren't...
...
Regards,
Julian
In an attempt to throw the authorities off his trail, ··········@web.de (J.St.) transmitted:
> Basile STARYNKEVITCH <·········@SPAM+starynkevitch.net.invalid> writes:
>
>> >>>>> "Blue" == Blue Lee <········@neusoft.com> writes:
>>
>> Blue> I am working on implementing a lisp interpreter, and i have
>> Blue> get some source code from other projects, but i could not
>> Blue> understand them well because lack knowledge on
>> Blue> interpreter. I have tried to find some information, but only
>> Blue> found some book about compiler. Are there some book or
>> Blue> anything else about interpreter?
>>
>> There is an excellent book by Christian Queinnec on this very subject.
>> See http://youpou.lip6.fr/queinnec/WWW/LiSP.html
>
> Amazon.de says 97.92 EUR ! That is even more expensive than "PC Intern
> 6" ...
>
>> On garbage collections, there is a book by Jones & Lins.
>
> That costs 69.00 EUR ... Why is education *that* expensive?
It's expensive because supply and demand meets "diseconomies of small
scale."
When Tom Clancy writes a book, and can expect to sell 8 million
copies, if he gets 13 cents on each one, he gets a million bucks.
When Queinnec or Jones & Lins produce books that are expected to sell
8000 copies apiece, they can't afford to sell them for $19.95 and
depend on large quantities to cover the cost of setting up the press.
You can't expect books with markets measured in the "few thousands" to
be as inexpensive as books expected to sell in quantities of
millions...
--
(reverse (concatenate 'string ·············@" "enworbbc"))
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/sap.html
When aiming for the common denominator, be prepared for the occasional
division by zero.
From: Lieven Marchand
Subject: Re: About the realization of an interpreter
Date:
Message-ID: <87ofb5ve92.fsf@wyrd.be>
··········@web.de (J.St.) writes:
> That costs 69.00 EUR ... Why is education *that* expensive?
You can always try whether ignorance is cheaper, as some on this group
obviously do.
--
Hai koe, zei de stier,
Kom mee met mij in de wei,
Dan zijn we tweezaam.
Lieven Marchand <···@wyrd.be>
Lieven Marchand <···@wyrd.be> writes:
> ··········@web.de (J.St.) writes:
>
> > That costs 69.00 EUR ... Why is education *that* expensive?
>
> You can always try whether ignorance is cheaper, as some on this group
> obviously do.
Most of the time I know the topics where I am better suited to listen
than to talk. And if not, I am always open to criticism.
Regards,
Julian
From: Erik Naggum
Subject: Re: About the realization of an interpreter
Date:
Message-ID: <3240691754337335@naggum.no>
* ··········@web.de (J.St.)
| Why is education *that* expensive?
You should instead ask yourself why your education is so worthless to you.
To rip off a very different phrase: Every man['s education] has a price, and
yours is pretty low. Besides, every civilized culture has had libraries, and
yours is probably still among them.
--
Erik Naggum, Oslo, Norway
Act from reason, and failure makes you rethink and study harder.
Act from faith, and failure makes you blame someone and push harder.
Erik Naggum <····@naggum.no> writes:
> * ··········@web.de (J.St.)
> | Why is education *that* expensive?
>
> You should instead ask yourself why your education is so worthless to you.
Money is a scarce resource.
> To rip off a very different phrase: Every man['s education] has a price, and
> yours is pretty low. Besides, every civilized culture has had libraries, and
> yours is probably still among them.
The nearest library that perhaps has these specialised books is quite
far from my small home town (using means of transportation easily
accessible to me).
But there is no need to discuss this further.
Regards,
Julian
From: Erik Naggum
Subject: Re: About the realization of an interpreter
Date:
Message-ID: <3240760157137407@naggum.no>
* ··········@web.de (J.St.)
| The nearest library that perhaps has these specialised books is quite far
| from my small home town (using means of transportation easily accessible to
| me).
I am flabbergasted by the problems you create for yourself instead of trying
find solutions. Visit your local public library and request interlibrary
loans. If your country is not utterly backward, your librarians will not
only have computerized access to the complete set of library holdings in the
entire country, but also their current loan status, and can easily order the
nearest copy for you. Prior to the WWW, the public libraries were the place
people who wanted information were expected to find it. This has, in fact,
not changed, but certain classes of people have completely failed to realize
that there is anything beyond the Net. This puzzles me greatly, but I am
one of the handful of individuals in this country to be excited when the new
Norwegian edition of Dewey's Decimal Classification became available this
week and one of the probably even fewer to own a copy of the full four-volume
American edition, so the vast majority who are less likely to be interested
in library science may be instead puzzled that someone might care enough
about libraries to actually know how to use them. I would still recommend a
visit to your local public library. I think you will be amazed at what the
few people who care about books have done for information accessibility.
--
Erik Naggum, Oslo, Norway
Act from reason, and failure makes you rethink and study harder.
Act from faith, and failure makes you blame someone and push harder.
Erik Naggum wrote:
> but I am
> one of the handful of individuals in this country to be excited when the
> new Norwegian edition of Dewey's Decimal Classification became available
> this week
Don't get out much, eh :-).
Nevertheless, your point (as usual) is dead on.
faa
Erik Naggum <····@naggum.no> writes:
[..]
> about libraries to actually know how to use them. I would still recommend a
> visit to your local public library. I think you will be amazed at what the
> few people who care about books have done for information accessibility.
My "local public library" is a relic from times when I was not born
yet. (It's not that long ago, but "computer" was quite a foreign word
at that time.) It is going to be closed. I regularly go there.
So please do not talk about my "local public library" and my personal
habits, if you do not know them.
Regards,
Julian
From: Andreas Hinze
Subject: Re: About the realization of an interpreter
Date:
Message-ID: <3D809285.7F51EA1F@smi.de>
> My "local public library" is a relic from times when I was not born
> yet. (It's not that long ago, but "computer" was quite a foreign word
> at that time.) It is going to be closed. I regularly go there.
>
Julian,
in Germany even your "relic" library can order most books and journals
from the state library. It takes only a few days if the books are not
conferred. This even works for school libraries.
And believe it or not but this also works without having a computer ;-)
So if you have any kind of library in your neighborhood you should
give it a try.
Best
AHz
From: Erik Naggum
Subject: Re: About the realization of an interpreter
Date:
Message-ID: <3240840030241227@naggum.no>
* ··········@web.de (J.St.)
| So please do not talk about my "local public library" and my personal
| habits, if you do not know them.
Look who forgot their chill pill this morning. You are the one to keep
giving us useless information on your personal habits. Most normal people
do not share their personal problems and habits with others just because
they have them. What you show us is that you do not want to solve your
problem and continue to produce excuses when you get suggestions. Nobody
cares about your excuses -- significant effort has been invested in trying
to give you more options to choose from. If you take this personally, you
need help to get over whatever causes you to whine and suffer and not solve
your own problems. However, I know enough about your negativistic attitudes
by now that I am not going to help you again -- you refuse and reject all
the help you get. You undoubtedly think of the help as instructions and
commands to do something you would not otherwise do, but you are in your
predicament because of the things you have not done. If this fact annoys
you, do not take it out on other people who actually try to find ways for
you to achieve your stated goals.
I actually assume that people are highly rational, goal-oriented, motivated,
focused, intelligent, and honest about their goals when they ask a group of
people for help on something the newsgroup population knows something about.
I expect newcomers to know these expectations because they would like to
frequent fora where people hold all of the above as values in their personal
lives as well as in their communication. I get pissed off by people who are
irrational, lack focus and motivation, and act stupidly when faced with
suggestions on how to reach what looks like their goals, and I provide
people with (strong) hints on what they should do in order to be useful to
the forum and find the forum useful to themselves. Most of the time, this
works excellently. People get the idea fast if they ever had any other
notions of what a newsgroup is for, and become useful members of the forum.
Some do not get it, and never will, because they do not consider any of the
above values in human relationships and communication. Their main goal
appears to be to find "sulking partners" who will validate their pain. I am
sure there are newsgroups for which this is the stated and achieved purpose.
--
Erik Naggum, Oslo, Norway
Act from reason, and failure makes you rethink and study harder.
Act from faith, and failure makes you blame someone and push harder.
J.St. wrote:
> My "local public library" is a relic from times when I was
> not born yet. (It's not that long ago, but "computer" was
> quite a foreign word at that time.) It is going to be
> closed. I regularly go there.
It seems you live in Germany, so please do not give me that.
First your local library can order the book for you via
"OPAC". This is called "Fernleihe". If there is no library
in your village then there is one you can reach within
thirty minutes (probably 15 minutes) with your car. But I
admit that these local libraries may be a bit slow. But
there is a university near you and they will order the book
for you via "Fernleihe" if they have no copy of it. This
may take up to two weeks but usually you can get it faster.
I often do this as I want to take a look at a book before I
buy it.
Another point: A book by Grisham costs 10 Euro. You can
enjoy it for two days. The book "A Course about
Computational Number Theory" by Henri Cohen cost maybe 60
Euro. I have been enjoying it for years. Looking at it this
way, it was very cheap.
(By the way, I saw the book by Christian Queinnec some time
ago in one of my "local bookshops". I live in Bavaria. As I
am writing this I see, that the university libraries in
Bayreuth, Erlangen (two copies!), M�nchen and Passau have
the book.)
But if you have no local library and no internet connection
and no phone and no car and there are no busses and no
trains where you live and no roads either, then it is
really difficult and you are having a problem.
(A few years ago I was complaining like you now about not
being able to buy books on Lisp and got similar answers.
Then I found out that even in my small village (150000
inhabitants) I could buy the book by Steele and ANSI Common
Lisp directly in my local bookshop. They had them. This was
embarassing.)
--
J.... B....
-----------== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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In article <··········@news.newsgroups.com>, JB <··@yahoo.de> wrote:
> even in my small village (150000
> inhabitants) I could buy the book by Steele and ANSI Common
> Lisp directly in my local bookshop
Small village. Uh-huh. Here in New Zealand that would be the 4th
largest city after Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch.
-- Bruce
From: Bill Clementson
Subject: Re: About the realization of an interpreter
Date:
Message-ID: <wkr8fyvd2k.fsf@attbi.com>
Bruce Hoult <·····@hoult.org> writes:
> In article <··········@news.newsgroups.com>, JB <··@yahoo.de> wrote:
>
> > even in my small village (150000
> > inhabitants) I could buy the book by Steele and ANSI Common
> > Lisp directly in my local bookshop
>
> Small village. Uh-huh. Here in New Zealand that would be the 4th
> largest city after Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch.
That would be Hamilton, of course. When I lived there over 10 years ago,
there was a technical book store and several large-ish chain book stores
as well as a very good public library. I never had any problems locating
technical books (and that was pre-Amazon times). I now live in Boulder,
Colorado (population 100000) and that has an excellent library, a university
library, a computer bookshop, and multiple private & public book
stores.
I find it hard to believe that there is any any city (or small village) of
100000 individuals or more in an industrialized country that would not be
able to provide public or commercial access to technical
literature. Most book store owners are more than happy to order copies
of books that they don't stock without obligation to buy. And, as has
been mentioned a number times already, the interlibrary loan system is
very effective as well.
--
Bill Clementson
Bill Clementson <·······@attbi.com> writes:
> I find it hard to believe that there is any any city (or small
> village) of 100000 individuals or more in an industrialized
> country that would not be able to provide public or commercial
> access to technical literature. Most book store owners are more
> than happy to order copies of books that they don't stock
> without obligation to buy.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Ok, you've never been in Germany, right?
> And, as has been mentioned a number times already, the
> interlibrary loan system is very effective as well.
That's correct, though. Even in Germany, already in the
seventies (don't know about earlier decades for existential
reasons), you could get any book you wanted in every library in
every village (with a library). You'd just have to ask.
Regards,
--
Nils Goesche
Ask not for whom the <CONTROL-G> tolls.
PGP key ID #xD26EF2A0
From: Bill Clementson
Subject: Re: About the realization of an interpreter
Date:
Message-ID: <wkr8fw4i5l.fsf@attbi.com>
Nils Goesche <···@cartan.de> writes:
> Bill Clementson <·······@attbi.com> writes:
>
> > I find it hard to believe that there is any any city (or small
> > village) of 100000 individuals or more in an industrialized
> > country that would not be able to provide public or commercial
> > access to technical literature. Most book store owners are more
> > than happy to order copies of books that they don't stock
> > without obligation to buy.
>
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Ok, you've never been in Germany, right?
hehe, I have been to Germany (in fact I have fond memories of travelling
through Germany on the London to Delhi overland route during the 70's)
but I should have been clearer with my comments:
I find it hard to believe that there is any city (or small
village) of 100000 individuals or more in an industrialized
country that would not be able to provide public or commercial
access to technical literature.
Here in the USA, most book store owners are more
than happy to order copies of books that they don't stock
without obligation to buy. And, if pre-ordering a book for review from a
commercial book store isn't an option, in many countries, the interlibrary
loan system is a very effective public alternative as well.
--
Bill Clementson
Bill Clementson wrote:
> Here in the USA, most book store owners are more
> than happy to order copies of books that they don't stock
> without obligation to buy. And, if pre-ordering a book for
> review from a commercial book store isn't an option, in
> many countries, the interlibrary loan system is a very
> effective public alternative as well.
What about ordering a book from France for example?
As a matter of fact, these things do not work too well in
*small* *villages* (though German books can be ordered
without any difficulty) but Germany is densely populated
and there is always a university near you.
--
J.... B....
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JB <··@yahoo.de> writes:
> J.St. wrote:
>
> > My "local public library" is a relic from times when I was
> > not born yet. (It's not that long ago, but "computer" was
> > quite a foreign word at that time.) It is going to be
> > closed. I regularly go there.
I intended to ignore this thread, but ...
> It seems you live in Germany, so please do not give me that.
> First your local library can order the book for you via
> "OPAC". This is called "Fernleihe". If there is no library
> in your village then there is one you can reach within
> thirty minutes (probably 15 minutes) with your car. But I
> admit that these local libraries may be a bit slow. But
> there is a university near you and they will order the book
> for you via "Fernleihe" if they have no copy of it. This
> may take up to two weeks but usually you can get it faster.
> I often do this as I want to take a look at a book before I
> buy it.
Next week or so I will visit the library of the TU Cottbus, they will
probably be able to get whatever book I want.
> (A few years ago I was complaining like you now about not
> being able to buy books on Lisp and got similar answers.
> Then I found out that even in my small village (150000
> inhabitants) I could buy the book by Steele and ANSI Common
> Lisp directly in my local bookshop. They had them. This was
> embarassing.)
150000 inhabitants... This certainly is no village. And if ever a copy
of ANSI Common Lisp lies in my book shop (without someone having
ordered it), I will eat my own copy.
Regards,
Julian
··········@web.de (J.St.) wrote in message news:<··············@jmmr.no-ip.com>...
> The nearest library that perhaps has these specialised books is quite
> far from my small home town (using means of transportation easily
> accessible to me).
In Germany, at least in the IT field, you can deduct any book useful
to your job from your taxes. Under EUR1000/year, you can be refunded
without much question. Over that, you'll want receipts. Get to know
tax consultants.
If you're a student... there shouldn't be any problem.
Otherwise, download SICP and be better than 99% of programmers. ;-)
Rob
From: Hannah Schroeter
Subject: Re: About the realization of an interpreter
Date:
Message-ID: <alq7ar$iqq$1@c3po.schlund.de>
Hello!
Robert Hanlin <··············@yahoo.com> wrote:
>··········@web.de (J.St.) wrote in message
>news:<··············@jmmr.no-ip.com>...
>> The nearest library that perhaps has these specialised books is quite
>> far from my small home town (using means of transportation easily
>> accessible to me).
>In Germany, at least in the IT field, you can deduct any book useful
>to your job from your taxes. Under EUR1000/year, you can be refunded
>without much question. Over that, you'll want receipts. Get to know
>tax consultants.
>If you're a student... there shouldn't be any problem.
But if you're a student, you usually don't earn as much as to pay
much taxes anyway. And tax deductions do *not* work that you get
your investment re-paid by the state, but by reducing the income
your tax is calculated of. I.e. if you don't pay taxes, tax
deduction are of no use at all. If you pay taxes, but aren't
a big earner, they bring perhaps a price reduction of 20 to 40 percent.
The rest of the price still remains.
>Otherwise, download SICP and be better than 99% of programmers. ;-)
SICP and downloading? I thought that book is an offline book not
generally available? (But present in every bigger library, I'd guess)
>Rob
Kind regards,
Hannah.
······@schlund.de (Hannah Schroeter) writes:
> SICP and downloading? I thought that book is an offline book not
> generally available? (But present in every bigger library, I'd
> guess)
<http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html>
Edi.
J.St. wrote:
> That costs 69.00 EUR ... Why is education *that*
> expensive?
The price of a book depends on the number of sold copies.
The books you are talking about are for a few specialists
only.
But I usually have the library of the local university buy a
copy for me and this costs of course nothing. Until now
they have bought *every* *book* I asked them for. (And they
are extremely fast too.)
--
Ja..s B.a.i
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··········@web.de (J.St.) writes:
> > There is an excellent book by Christian Queinnec on this very subject.
> > See http://youpou.lip6.fr/queinnec/WWW/LiSP.html
>
> Amazon.de says 97.92 EUR ! That is even more expensive than "PC Intern
> 6" ...
it is worth it. during 88-94, i amassed a large a lisp/scheme library
totalling several hundred tech reports and journal articles (scheme part
alone was 172 entries according to my scheme biblio at the time) for some
implementation work. i can safely say that "lisp in small pieces" would
have rendered most of that effort (took me months to get copies of some
of the project-mac era tech reports) unnecessary. there are very few
books like it for the implementor of *any* language, and certainly
nothing for lisp since allen. [yes, i completely disregard sicp :-]
oz
---
never let your job get in the way of your work. -- david tilbrook
From: Bill Clementson
Subject: Re: About the realization of an interpreter
Date:
Message-ID: <wk1y7zq5b5.fsf@attbi.com>
··········@web.de (J.St.) writes:
> Basile STARYNKEVITCH <·········@SPAM+starynkevitch.net.invalid> writes:
>
> > >>>>> "Blue" == Blue Lee <········@neusoft.com> writes:
> >
> > Blue> I am working on implementing a lisp interpreter, and i have
> > Blue> get some source code from other projects, but i could not
> > Blue> understand them well because lack knowledge on
> > Blue> interpreter. I have tried to find some information, but only
> > Blue> found some book about compiler. Are there some book or
> > Blue> anything else about interpreter?
> >
> > There is an excellent book by Christian Queinnec on this very subject.
> > See http://youpou.lip6.fr/queinnec/WWW/LiSP.html
>
> Amazon.de says 97.92 EUR ! That is even more expensive than "PC Intern
> 6" ...
The "Lisp in Small Pieces" book is exceptional and I haven't seen an
equivalent for any other programming language. If you are implementing a
Lisp interpreter, you will find it very hard to beat this book as a
resource. However, to keep the price down, you might want to keep an eye
out for used copies - even if you need to order them from the USA and
pay the freight charges. For example, here are the second-hand prices
for this book from Amazon (US) with $64.38 the current cheapest price:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/offering/list/-/0521562473/all/ref=dp_pb_a/103-4719128-3771029
Another good site for searching for used books is http://used.addall.com/
Although "Lisp in Small Pieces" is the more relevant book for CL &
Scheme, you might also want to have a look at the older (pre-CL) book
"Anatomy of Lisp" by John Allen. Unfortunately, used copies of this
book currently sell for $137 (and up) but you could keep an eye on the
prices and see if you can snap one up at a good price if one becomes
available. The Amazon (US) link for this book is:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/007001115X/qid%3D1031798680/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/103-4719128-3771029
> > On garbage collections, there is a book by Jones & Lins.
>
> That costs 69.00 EUR ... Why is education *that* expensive?
Ignorance is more expensive. If you are on a very tight budget, you
might want to try interlibrary loans - can't beat the price.
--
Bill Clementson
Bill Clementson <·······@attbi.com> writes:
> The "Lisp in Small Pieces" book is exceptional and I haven't seen an
> equivalent for any other programming language.
actually, there is a very close second for prolog: Patrice Boizumault's
"The Implementation of Prolog" is excellent with three implementations in
CL to boot, though i felt that more depth could have been had with the
implementations. sigh, i doubt another edition would sell...
oz
--
The predicates of Schemers are buried in their heads, not written in code.
-- shriram Krishnamurthi
Bill Clementson <·······@attbi.com> writes:
> ··········@web.de (J.St.) writes:
>
> > Basile STARYNKEVITCH <·········@SPAM+starynkevitch.net.invalid> writes:
> >
> > > >>>>> "Blue" == Blue Lee <········@neusoft.com> writes:
> > >
> > > Blue> I am working on implementing a lisp interpreter, and i have
> > > Blue> get some source code from other projects, but i could not
> > > Blue> understand them well because lack knowledge on
> > > Blue> interpreter. I have tried to find some information, but only
> > > Blue> found some book about compiler. Are there some book or
> > > Blue> anything else about interpreter?
> > >
> > > There is an excellent book by Christian Queinnec on this very subject.
> > > See http://youpou.lip6.fr/queinnec/WWW/LiSP.html
> >
> > Amazon.de says 97.92 EUR ! That is even more expensive than "PC Intern
> > 6" ...
>
> The "Lisp in Small Pieces" book is exceptional and I haven't seen an
> equivalent for any other programming language. If you are implementing a
> Lisp interpreter, you will find it very hard to beat this book as a
> resource. However, to keep the price down, you might want to keep an eye
> out for used copies - even if you need to order them from the USA and
> pay the freight charges. For example, here are the second-hand prices
I looked for used copies on the German "market", with now success till
now. I will consider ordering from the USA. Thanks for the links.
> > > On garbage collections, there is a book by Jones & Lins.
> >
> > That costs 69.00 EUR ... Why is education *that* expensive?
>
> Ignorance is more expensive. If you are on a very tight budget, you
> might want to try interlibrary loans - can't beat the price.
See my post to Mr Naggum. My budget is not that small either, but has
to serve for general education as well (mostly classic literature or
mathematics).
Most of the time eBay is my friend, but Lisp books are very rare
there, too.
Regards,
Julian
J.St. <··········@web.de> wrote:
+---------------
| Bill Clementson <·······@attbi.com> writes:
| > ··········@web.de (J.St.) writes:
| > > Basile STARYNKEVITCH <·········@SPAM+starynkevitch.net.invalid> writes:
| > > > There is an excellent book by Christian Queinnec on this very subject.
| > > > See http://youpou.lip6.fr/queinnec/WWW/LiSP.html
| > >
| > > Amazon.de says 97.92 EUR !
| >
| > The "Lisp in Small Pieces" book is exceptional and I haven't seen an
| > equivalent for any other programming language. If you are implementing a
| > Lisp interpreter, you will find it very hard to beat this book as a
| > resource.
+---------------
I second (or 3rd or 4th) the recommendation.
+---------------
| > However, to keep the price down, you might want to keep an eye
| > out for used copies - even if you need to order them from the USA and
| > pay the freight charges. For example, here are the second-hand prices
|
| I looked for used copies on the German "market", with now success till
| now. I will consider ordering from the USA. Thanks for the links.
+---------------
If you read French, you may find it easier to obtain the original
(pre-translation) version of the same book:
Christian Queinnec, "Les langages Lisp".
Inter�ditions, Paris (France), 1994.
-Rob
-----
Rob Warnock, PP-ASEL-IA <····@rpw3.org>
627 26th Avenue <URL:http://www.rpw3.org/>
San Mateo, CA 94403 (650)572-2607
From: Erik Naggum
Subject: Re: About the realization of an interpreter
Date:
Message-ID: <3240918813366801@naggum.no>
* Rob Warnock
| If you read French, you may find it easier to obtain the original
| (pre-translation) version of the same book:
I felt as if I was still reading French in the English translation by
Kathleen Callaway.
--
Erik Naggum, Oslo, Norway
Act from reason, and failure makes you rethink and study harder.
Act from faith, and failure makes you blame someone and push harder.
In article <··············@attbi.com>, Bill Clementson <·······@attbi.com>
wrote:
>Although "Lisp in Small Pieces" is the more relevant book for CL &
>Scheme, you might also want to have a look at the older (pre-CL) book
>"Anatomy of Lisp" by John Allen. Unfortunately, used copies of this
>book currently sell for $137 (and up) but you could keep an eye on the
>prices and see if you can snap one up at a good price if one becomes
>available. The Amazon (US) link for this book is:
>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/007001115X/qid%3D1031798680/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/103-4719128-3771029
I have a copy of Allen's "Anatomy of Lisp" in good conditon.
If anyone's willing to pay $137 for it, drop me a message
at ·············@vanderbilt.edu.
"Blue Lee" <········@neusoft.com> wrote in message
·····················@neusoft.com...
> I am working on implementing a lisp interpreter,
> and i have get some source code from other projects,
> but i could not understand them well because lack
> knowledge on interpreter. I have tried to find
> some information, but only found some book about
> compiler. Are there some book or anything else
> about interpreter?
Take a look at the following link, http://www.civilized.com/LispBook/. You
may find the information about their Lisp Interpreter useful in your work.
Steven