In article <·············@mail.cn99.com>, Jame.Thu wrote:
> do you think?
yes I do, do you?
marc
>
> hehe....
>
>
From: ilias
Subject: Re: Which is the Best Common Lisp implementation for Windows?
Date:
Message-ID: <3D71F8C1.8040209@pontos.net>
Jame.Thu wrote:
> do you think?
not always.
>
> hehe....
hoho.
at this time, i would say:
1.) http://www.franz.com/downloads/
2.) http://www.lispworks.com/downloads/lw-personal-edition.html
3.) http://www.cormanlisp.com/download.html
additionally, franz.com Allegro is the only which has a real
non-commercial version (you have to renew licence every 2 months, but
the program assists you somehow to do that)
From: Edi Weitz
Subject: Re: Which is the Best Common Lisp implementation for Windows?
Date:
Message-ID: <87heh94i9p.fsf@bird.agharta.de>
ilias <·······@pontos.net> writes:
> at this time, i would say:
>
> 1.) http://www.franz.com/downloads/
>
> 2.) http://www.lispworks.com/downloads/lw-personal-edition.html
>
> 3.) http://www.cormanlisp.com/download.html
>
> additionally, franz.com Allegro is the only which has a real
> non-commercial version (you have to renew licence every 2 months,
> but the program assists you somehow to do that)
Could you please make sure that you don't spread false information
here, please? How is the non-commercial version of AllegroCL more
"real" than those from Xanalys or Corman? Please explain!
Edi.
From: ilias
Subject: Re: Which is the Best Common Lisp implementation for Windows?
Date:
Message-ID: <3D77A848.9090102@pontos.net>
Edi Weitz wrote:
> ilias <·······@pontos.net> writes:
>
>
>>at this time, i would say:
>>
>>1.) http://www.franz.com/downloads/
>>
>>2.) http://www.lispworks.com/downloads/lw-personal-edition.html
>>
>>3.) http://www.cormanlisp.com/download.html
>>
>>additionally, franz.com Allegro is the only which has a real
>>non-commercial version (you have to renew licence every 2 months,
>>but the program assists you somehow to do that)
>
>
> Could you please make sure that you don't spread false information
> here, please? How is the non-commercial version of AllegroCL more
> "real" than those from Xanalys or Corman? Please explain!
>
> Edi.
sorry. i've overseen this.
Corman Windows GUI expires after 30 days.
Xanalys shuts down after 5 hours (you can restart). and generates no exe
(seee an actual topic "LISP - Xanalys - time to act"
Franz does not shut down, and let you renew the trial-licence automated
and you can generate an exe.
ther term 'non-commercial' is missleading.
i don't even know its definition.
i make the statement based on feeling the term as "free to make
everything, except cash"
should better said 'trial-version'
From: Edi Weitz
Subject: Re: Which is the Best Common Lisp implementation for Windows?
Date:
Message-ID: <87lm6gxmss.fsf@dyn164.dbdmedia.de>
ilias <·······@pontos.net> writes:
I'd prefer if you stopped posting crap here and I agree with others
that it might be better to just ignore you but let me get some facts
right for the sake of other readers:
> Corman Windows GUI expires after 30 days.
That's only the IDE. You can use the compiler for any non-commercial
purpose as long as you wish without the need of licence-renewal. If
you think you can't afford the few bucks for CormanLisp and need a
free IDE use Emacs.
> Franz does not shut down, and let you renew the trial-licence
> automated and you can generate an exe.
The AllegroCL trial edition can't generate EXEs as far as I know. See
<http://www.franz.com/support/documentation/6.2/doc/delivery.htm#delivery-preparation-1>
where it says
"GENERATE-APPLICATION and GENERATE-EXECUTABLE are the functional
entry point for developers to deliver an application. (Note that
GENERATE-APPLICATION and GENERATE-EXECUTABLE are only available in
Enterprise versions of Allegro CL.)"
CormanLisp can generate EXEs.
> ther term 'non-commercial' is missleading.
>
> i don't even know its definition.
So shut up if you don't know what you're talking about.
> i make the statement based on feeling the term as "free to make
> everything, except cash"
>
> should better said 'trial-version'
The Xanalys site calls the Personal Edition "free software for Linux
and Windows users to TRY". I don't think it's their problem if you
can't read.
Edi.
From: ilias
Subject: Re: Which is the Best Common Lisp implementation for Windows?
Date:
Message-ID: <3D77BF9A.6040102@pontos.net>
Edi Weitz wrote:
> ilias <·······@pontos.net> writes:
>
> I'd prefer if you stopped posting crap here and I agree with others
> that it might be better to just ignore you but let me get some facts
> right for the sake of other readers:
you should prefer what you can insist on.
makes live easier.
facts are nice.
lets talk.
>>Corman Windows GUI expires after 30 days.
>
> That's only the IDE. You can use the compiler for any non-commercial
> purpose as long as you wish without the need of licence-renewal. If
> you think you can't afford the few bucks for CormanLisp and need a
> free IDE use Emacs.
The original poster asks for Windows versions.
"That's only the IDE"
is the Windows program. The rest of your sentence are irrelevant facts,
as they refere to a DOS-Programms (to which the poster don't refers) and
pay-programs (to which i don't refere).
The Windows program is available for 30 days.
This is not a *real* Windows non-commercial (or private, or trial)
>>Franz does not shut down, and let you renew the trial-licence
>>automated and you can generate an exe.
>
> The AllegroCL trial edition can't generate EXEs as far as I know. See
>
> <http://www.franz.com/support/documentation/6.2/doc/delivery.htm#delivery-preparation-1>
>
> where it says
>
> "GENERATE-APPLICATION and GENERATE-EXECUTABLE are the functional
> entry point for developers to deliver an application. (Note that
> GENERATE-APPLICATION and GENERATE-EXECUTABLE are only available in
> Enterprise versions of Allegro CL.)"
sorry. i can generate an EXE and execute it.
but i cannot write complete programms (cause i'm a LISP-novice, not
Allegros fault)
delivery of applications is anyway not allowed.
perhaps the EXE that the demo generates differs from real-machine
deliverable executables.
maybe someone knows?
but however: i can develope under windows, as long as i wish.
> CormanLisp can generate EXEs.
but only for 30 days under Windows.
so its irrelevant.
>>ther term 'non-commercial' is missleading.
>>
>>i don't even know its definition.
>
> So shut up if you don't know what you're talking about.
you are right.
i get to much captured by the climatic conditions in the fora.
>>i make the statement based on feeling the term as "free to make
>>everything, except cash"
>>
>>should better said 'trial-version'
>
> The Xanalys site calls the Personal Edition "free software for Linux
> and Windows users to TRY". I don't think it's their problem if you
> can't read.
>
> Edi.
No, it isn't.
But i don't care what the write.
I say: this is not a *real* Windows non-commercial (or private, or trial).
this fits with: it is "free software for Linux and Windows users to TRY"
the next level is philosophy.
i've opened a thread, you can write something about the philosophy of
making business.
* ilias <·······@pontos.net>:
> Edi Weitz wrote:
>
> > That's only the IDE. You can use the compiler for any non-commercial
> > purpose as long as you wish without the need of licence-renewal. If you
> > think you can't afford the few bucks for CormanLisp and need a free IDE
> > use Emacs.
>
> The original poster asks for Windows versions.
>
> "That's only the IDE"
>
> is the Windows program. The rest of your sentence are irrelevant facts, as
> they refere to a DOS-Programms (to which the poster don't refers) and
> pay-programs (to which i don't refere).
It isn't a DOS program, it's a Windows program. Emacs makes for a great
interface to it if you want to ignore the IDE.
> The Windows program is available for 30 days.
> This is not a *real* Windows non-commercial (or private, or trial)
Corman Common Lisp is a "Windows program" which allows you to use it, for
non-commercial purposes, as long as you wish. At least, it was the last time
I looked.
--
Dave Pearson: | lbdb.el - LBDB interface.
http://www.davep.org/ | sawfish.el - Sawfish mode.
Emacs: | uptimes.el - Record emacs uptimes.
http://www.davep.org/emacs/ | quickurl.el - Recall lists of URLs.
From: Chris Double
Subject: Re: Which is the Best Common Lisp implementation for Windows?
Date:
Message-ID: <ubs7cdtmt.fsf@double.co.nz>
ilias <·······@pontos.net> writes:
> is the Windows program. The rest of your sentence are irrelevant facts, as
> they refere to a DOS-Programms (to which the poster don't refers) and
> pay-programs (to which i don't refere).
>
> The Windows program is available for 30 days.
> This is not a *real* Windows non-commercial (or private, or trial)
Incorrect. The console version of Corman Lisp is a true windows
program. It just runs from the console. You can use Emacs and ILisp as
your IDE. The console version still enables you to use the full Lisp,
including calling the Windows API and generating Windows
applications.
If you wanted, you could even write your own Windows IDE in Corman
Lisp.
Please tell me how it is not a *real* windows program.
> > CormanLisp can generate EXEs.
>
> but only for 30 days under Windows.
> so its irrelevant.
Also incorrect. The .exe generation has no time limit. Corman Lisp
also comes with full source for the Lisp compiler so if it had a time
limit there you could obviously work around it.
Chris.
I previously owned ACL and am now the happy owner of Corman Common Lisp.
Here's what I like about Corman Lisp:
- quality Lisp implementation that has consistently evolved and improved
- incremental compilation to native code
- full source code supplied
- can generate EXEs
- can generate DLLs (pending 2.0 release or, as promised, soon after)
- very reasonable price
- tech support direct from Roger Corman
A superb value. A much-needed product. Now, if only a port to Linux was
in the works...
On Thu, 05 Sep 2002 18:16:42 -0300, Chris Double wrote:
> ilias <·······@pontos.net> writes:
>
>> is the Windows program. The rest of your sentence are irrelevant facts,
>> as they refere to a DOS-Programms (to which the poster don't refers)
>> and pay-programs (to which i don't refere).
>>
>> The Windows program is available for 30 days. This is not a *real*
>> Windows non-commercial (or private, or trial)
>
> Incorrect. The console version of Corman Lisp is a true windows program.
> It just runs from the console. You can use Emacs and ILisp as your IDE.
> The console version still enables you to use the full Lisp, including
> calling the Windows API and generating Windows applications.
>
> If you wanted, you could even write your own Windows IDE in Corman Lisp.
>
> Please tell me how it is not a *real* windows program.
>
>> > CormanLisp can generate EXEs.
>>
>> but only for 30 days under Windows.
>> so its irrelevant.
>
> Also incorrect. The .exe generation has no time limit. Corman Lisp also
> comes with full source for the Lisp compiler so if it had a time limit
> there you could obviously work around it.
>
> Chris.
So you're suggesting that he crack the code...How *very* thoughtful of
you!
Why don't you - instead - suggest that he use Free/Libre Software?
Check out CLISP, CMUCL. And dump Windows. It's no good anyhow...
_________________________________________________________________
Micro$oft-Free Human 100% Debian GNU/Linux
KMFMS "Bring the genome to the people!
···········@debian-rs.org
www.debian.org - www.debian-br.cipsga.org.br - www.debian-rs.org
From: Chris Double
Subject: Re: Which is the Best Common Lisp implementation for Windows?
Date:
Message-ID: <u4rcyh24e.fsf@double.co.nz>
synthespian <···········@debian-rs.org> writes:
> >> but only for 30 days under Windows.
> >> so its irrelevant.
> >
> > Also incorrect. The .exe generation has no time limit. Corman Lisp also
> > comes with full source for the Lisp compiler so if it had a time limit
> > there you could obviously work around it.
> >
> > Chris.
>
>
> So you're suggesting that he crack the code...How *very* thoughtful of
> you!
Where do I say that? The license for Corman Lisp states that it may be
used for non commercial purposes. There is no time limit for that. I
mentioned that it came with source code to show that there would be no
point having a time limit with it as it would be easily disabled. The
IDE does have a time limit and that needs to be paid for if you wish
to use it past the license period.
> Why don't you - instead - suggest that he use Free/Libre Software?
Why? I wasn't suggesting that they use anything. I was correcting
incorrect statements made about the Corman Lisp license.
Chris.
--
http://www.double.co.nz/cl
From: J.St.
Subject: Re: Which is the Best Common Lisp implementation for Windows?
Date:
Message-ID: <873csndzhf.fsf@jmmr.no-ip.com>
ilias <·······@pontos.net> writes:
>
> The original poster asks for Windows versions.
>
> "That's only the IDE"
>
> is the Windows program. The rest of your sentence are irrelevant
> facts, as they refere to a DOS-Programms (to which the poster don't
> refers) and pay-programs (to which i don't refere).
Arg... The Corman Lisp Compiler is a Windows 32-bit console
application. That is far (say Tokio -> Auriga star nebula) from being
a DOS-application.
Regards,
Julian
Of course, if you like Corman Lisp then you needn't mess with restrictions.
Simply go to http://www.cormanlisp.com/download.html (bottom of page) and
download
version 1.42 (not the latest). Then proceed to www.astalavista.com and
search on
"corman". Here you will find a crack for the 1.42 version that removes all
restrictions. Of course I would never do this myself, nor would I recommend
it
to others. This is strictly for info. purposes.
"ilias" <·······@pontos.net> wrote in message
·····················@pontos.net...
> Edi Weitz wrote:
> > ilias <·······@pontos.net> writes:
> >
> >
> >>at this time, i would say:
> >>
> >>1.) http://www.franz.com/downloads/
> >>
> >>2.) http://www.lispworks.com/downloads/lw-personal-edition.html
> >>
> >>3.) http://www.cormanlisp.com/download.html
> >>
> >>additionally, franz.com Allegro is the only which has a real
> >>non-commercial version (you have to renew licence every 2 months,
> >>but the program assists you somehow to do that)
> >
> >
> > Could you please make sure that you don't spread false information
> > here, please? How is the non-commercial version of AllegroCL more
> > "real" than those from Xanalys or Corman? Please explain!
> >
> > Edi.
>
> sorry. i've overseen this.
>
> Corman Windows GUI expires after 30 days.
> Xanalys shuts down after 5 hours (you can restart). and generates no exe
> (seee an actual topic "LISP - Xanalys - time to act"
> Franz does not shut down, and let you renew the trial-licence automated
> and you can generate an exe.
>
> ther term 'non-commercial' is missleading.
>
> i don't even know its definition.
>
> i make the statement based on feeling the term as "free to make
> everything, except cash"
>
> should better said 'trial-version'
>
>
From: ilias
Subject: Re: Which is the Best Common Lisp implementation for Windows?
Date:
Message-ID: <3D7A5AAC.9060807@pontos.net>
Jeff Stephens wrote:
> Of course, if you like Corman Lisp then you needn't mess with restrictions.
> Simply go to http://www.cormanlisp.com/download.html (bottom of page) and
> download
> version 1.42 (not the latest). Then proceed to www.astalavista.com and
> search on
> "corman". Here you will find a crack for the 1.42 version that removes all
> restrictions. Of course I would never do this myself, nor would I recommend
> it
> to others. This is strictly for info. purposes.
A crack is very unfriendly.
From: ilias
Subject: Re: Which is the Best Common Lisp implementation for Windows?
Date:
Message-ID: <3D79256B.5040500@pontos.net>
ilias wrote:
> Jame.Thu wrote:
>
>> do you think?
>
> not always.
>
>>
>> hehe....
>
> hoho.
>
>
>
> at this time, i would say:
>
> 1.) http://www.franz.com/downloads/
>
> 2.) http://www.lispworks.com/downloads/lw-personal-edition.html
>
> 3.) http://www.cormanlisp.com/download.html
>
> additionally, franz.com Allegro is the only which has a real
> non-commercial version (you have to renew licence every 2 months, but
> the program assists you somehow to do that)
>
i forgot something interesting:
Corman-lisp is comes with source-code.
Good for curiosity.
From: Reini Urban
Subject: Re: Which is the Best Common Lisp implementation for Windows?
Date:
Message-ID: <3D7BD60E.7010103@inode.at>
ilias schrieb:
> at this time, i would say:
> 1.) http://www.franz.com/downloads/
> 2.) http://www.lispworks.com/downloads/lw-personal-edition.html
> 3.) http://www.cormanlisp.com/download.html
>
> additionally, franz.com Allegro is the only which has a real
> non-commercial version (you have to renew licence every 2 months, but
> the program assists you somehow to do that)
Strange. I don't want to feed the troll, but you guys forgot to mention
CLISP, the only "real non-commercial version" for Windows. It's not the
best, but a good one.
--
Reini Urban - Programmer - http://inode.at
Reini Urban <······@inode.at> wrote:
> ilias schrieb:
>> at this time, i would say:
>> 1.) http://www.franz.com/downloads/
>> 2.) http://www.lispworks.com/downloads/lw-personal-edition.html
>> 3.) http://www.cormanlisp.com/download.html
>> additionally, franz.com Allegro is the only which has a real
>> non-commercial version (you have to renew licence every 2 months,
>> but the program assists you somehow to do that)
>
> Strange. I don't want to feed the troll, but you guys forgot to
> mention CLISP, the only "real non-commercial version" for
> Windows. It's not the best, but a good one.
Ah, but just like Corman Lisp (when it gets past the 30 day trial
period), it doesn't have gratuitous numbers of Windows dialog boxes,
so it's not a "real Windows" program.
(And if you think that's a silly observation, then consider that:
`When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows", people just
stare at you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system, *for
free*".' -- Linus Torvalds
And it _did_ get pointed out that "Corman Lisp isn't really a Windows
app," so I'm _not_ out of line on this. In short, you should probably
stop feeding the troll...)
--
(concatenate 'string "chris" ·@cbbrowne.com")
http://cbbrowne.com/info/nonrdbms.html
"When the grammar checker identifies an error, it suggests a
correction and can even makes some changes for you."
-- Microsoft Word for Windows 2.0 User's Guide, p.35:
From: ilias
Subject: Re: Which is the Best Common Lisp implementation for Windows?
Date:
Message-ID: <3D7BD8F0.7070004@pontos.net>
Reini Urban wrote:
> ilias schrieb:
>
>> at this time, i would say:
>> 1.) http://www.franz.com/downloads/
>> 2.) http://www.lispworks.com/downloads/lw-personal-edition.html
>> 3.) http://www.cormanlisp.com/download.html
>>
>> additionally, franz.com Allegro is the only which has a real
>> non-commercial version (you have to renew licence every 2 months, but
>> the program assists you somehow to do that)
>
>
> Strange. I don't want to feed the troll, but you guys forgot to mention
> CLISP, the only "real non-commercial version" for Windows. It's not the
> best, but a good one.
come on, feed me (and the others interesents) a little.
give us a link. I've placed 3 links, am i not worth 1 ?
to you comment:
sorry,
i was writing very unprecisely here!
i meant of course:
additionally, franz.com Allegro is the only ( *of the thee i have, i
don't know if there are others* )which has a real
non-commercial version (you have to renew licence every 2 months, but
the program assists you somehow to do that)