From: Nils Kassube
Subject: CL on NetBSD or OpenBSD
Date: 
Message-ID: <873d18c1iu.fsf@kursk.kassube.de>
Is it possible to use 

      - CMU CL
      - Xanalys LispWorks  
      - Allegro CL

on a NetBSD or OpenBSD system? I already know CLISP works.

From: Raymond Wiker
Subject: Re: CL on NetBSD or OpenBSD
Date: 
Message-ID: <867kqkrh9e.fsf@raw.grenland.fast.no>
Nils Kassube <····@kassube.de> writes:

> Is it possible to use 
> 
>       - CMU CL
>       - Xanalys LispWorks  
>       - Allegro CL
> 
> on a NetBSD or OpenBSD system? I already know CLISP works.

        You may want to add SBCL (a relative of CMUCL), which *does*
work under OpenBSD and FreeBSD.

-- 
Raymond Wiker                        Mail:  ·············@fast.no
Senior Software Engineer             Web:   http://www.fast.no/
Fast Search & Transfer ASA           Phone: +47 23 01 11 60
P.O. Box 1677 Vika                   Fax:   +47 35 54 87 99
NO-0120 Oslo, NORWAY                 Mob:   +47 48 01 11 60

Try FAST Search: http://alltheweb.com/
From: Johannes =?iso-8859-15?q?Gr=F8dem?=
Subject: Re: CL on NetBSD or OpenBSD
Date: 
Message-ID: <lzsn98q0j0.fsf@bzzzt.fix.no>
* Raymond Wiker <·············@fast.no>:

>>       - CMU CL

Does not work on NetBSD.  (I've tried Linux, FreeBSD and OpenBSD
verions of CMUCL.)

>> on a NetBSD or OpenBSD system? I already know CLISP works.
> You may want to add SBCL (a relative of CMUCL), which *does*
> work under OpenBSD and FreeBSD.

SBCL seems to work under NetBSD.  I haven't tested it extensively, though.

-- 
johs
From: Nils Kassube
Subject: Re: CL on NetBSD or OpenBSD
Date: 
Message-ID: <87u1toadka.fsf@kursk.kassube.de>
Raymond Wiker <·············@fast.no> writes:

>         You may want to add SBCL (a relative of CMUCL), which *does*

Last time I checked SBCL, okay, some time ago, it was not ready for
prime. What's the current status? 

Let's have a look at 

        http://sbcl.sourceforge.net
        
Nice, someone is working on a PowerPC port. Debian packages for my
other platform, too. Fine. 

So, how good is SBCL for day-to-day usage today? Looks like a very
interesting alternative.  

Cheers,
Nils
From: Raymond Wiker
Subject: Re: CL on NetBSD or OpenBSD
Date: 
Message-ID: <863d18r6pi.fsf@raw.grenland.fast.no>
Nils Kassube <····@kassube.de> writes:

> Raymond Wiker <·············@fast.no> writes:
> 
> >         You may want to add SBCL (a relative of CMUCL), which *does*
> 
> Last time I checked SBCL, okay, some time ago, it was not ready for
> prime. What's the current status? 
> 
> Let's have a look at 
> 
>         http://sbcl.sourceforge.net
>         
> Nice, someone is working on a PowerPC port. Debian packages for my
> other platform, too. Fine. 
> 
> So, how good is SBCL for day-to-day usage today? Looks like a very
> interesting alternative.  

        I can't claim to be a full-time common lisp user, and
certainly not a user of all the weird and wonderful functions in
common lisp, but...

        It works for me(tm).

-- 
Raymond Wiker                        Mail:  ·············@fast.no
Senior Software Engineer             Web:   http://www.fast.no/
Fast Search & Transfer ASA           Phone: +47 23 01 11 60
P.O. Box 1677 Vika                   Fax:   +47 35 54 87 99
NO-0120 Oslo, NORWAY                 Mob:   +47 48 01 11 60

Try FAST Search: http://alltheweb.com/
From: Thomas F. Burdick
Subject: Re: CL on NetBSD or OpenBSD
Date: 
Message-ID: <xcvlmf02hqo.fsf@apocalypse.OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
Nils Kassube <····@kassube.de> writes:

> Raymond Wiker <·············@fast.no> writes:
> 
> >         You may want to add SBCL (a relative of CMUCL), which *does*
> 
> Last time I checked SBCL, okay, some time ago, it was not ready for
> prime. What's the current status? 
> 
> Let's have a look at 
> 
>         http://sbcl.sourceforge.net
>         
> Nice, someone is working on a PowerPC port. Debian packages for my
> other platform, too. Fine. 
> 
> So, how good is SBCL for day-to-day usage today? Looks like a very
> interesting alternative.  

The release coming up will be a big improvement.  Having been
following the devel list, I understand why it's been so long, but it
really shouldn't have been (in a more perfect world where everyone
wasn't a volunteer, of course).  The development version has been
usable for some time, but I think the last release was just barely on
the wrong side of the cusp, for me at least.  0.7.0 will have a bunch
of correctness fixes relative to the previous release.  The last devel
version I checked out has been working quite well for me.

On the other hand, I'm back to mostly using CMUCL.  The efficiency
differences don't really matter for me, except inasmuch as I've been
doing a fair amount of analysis of algorithms recently.

So, there's no reason why I couldn't get my actual work done with
SBCL.  And I had been using it as my day-to-day Lisp for some time.
Oh yeah, and for the parts of CMUCL that I'm using for the Lisp
implementaion I'm working on (for standard-library type parts of CL),
I'm actually using SBCL as the source.

-- 
           /|_     .-----------------------.                        
         ,'  .\  / | No to Imperialist war |                        
     ,--'    _,'   | Wage class war!       |                        
    /       /      `-----------------------'                        
   (   -.  |                               
   |     ) |                               
  (`-.  '--.)                              
   `. )----'                               
From: Brian P Templeton
Subject: Re: CL on NetBSD or OpenBSD
Date: 
Message-ID: <87pu4b2pjl.fsf@tunes.org>
Nils Kassube <····@kassube.de> writes:

> Raymond Wiker <·············@fast.no> writes:
> 
>>         You may want to add SBCL (a relative of CMUCL), which *does*
> 
> Last time I checked SBCL, okay, some time ago, it was not ready for
> prime. What's the current status? 
> 
> Let's have a look at 
> 
>         http://sbcl.sourceforge.net
>         
> Nice, someone is working on a PowerPC port. Debian packages for my
> other platform, too. Fine. 
> 
> So, how good is SBCL for day-to-day usage today? Looks like a very
> interesting alternative.  
> 
It works well for me. ILISP supports it, and most of the important
implementation-specific packages, e.g., CLX, McCLIM, etc, support it,
and also, of course, all the portable packages. Also, Zhivago in #lisp
(sorry, I don't remember his real name) has added Unicode support to
SBCL recently, including things like input methods, and is stomping
out bugs right now.

(In addition to normal use, it's very useful if you're interested in
Lisp implementation, since one of its goals is to be easily
maintainable, bootstrappable, etc.)

But it doesn't work with eclipse, at least not with my copy of CLX :(

> Cheers,
> Nils

hth,
-- 
BPT <···@tunes.org>	    		/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign
backronym for Linux:			\ / No HTML or RTF in mail
	Linux Is Not Unix			 X  No MS-Word in mail
Meme plague ;)   --------->		/ \ Respect Open Standards
From: Daniel Barlow
Subject: SBCL (was Re: CL on NetBSD or OpenBSD)
Date: 
Message-ID: <87wuyjytor.fsf_-_@noetbook.telent.net>
Brian P Templeton <···@tunes.org> writes:

> Nils Kassube <····@kassube.de> writes:
> 
> > Nice, someone is working on a PowerPC port. 

/me waves

> It works well for me. ILISP supports it, and most of the important
> implementation-specific packages, e.g., CLX, McCLIM, etc, support it,
> and also, of course, all the portable packages. Also, Zhivago in #lisp
                                                        ^^^^^^^
That'd be Brian Spilsbury

> But it doesn't work with eclipse, at least not with my copy of CLX :(

Eclipse is on my TODO list, if only so I can finally punt sawfish and
its odd objection to playing nicely with xmcd. 


-dan

-- 

  http://ww.telent.net/cliki/ - Link farm for free CL-on-Unix resources 
From: Eric Marsden
Subject: Re: CL on NetBSD or OpenBSD
Date: 
Message-ID: <wzig058978f.fsf@laas.fr>
>>>>> "nk" == Nils Kassube <····@kassube.de> writes:

  nk> Is it possible to use 
  nk> - CMU CL
  nk> - Xanalys LispWorks  
  nk> - Allegro CL
  nk> on a NetBSD or OpenBSD system?

CMUCL works on OpenBSD (at least 2.8 and 2.9; I don't know about 3.0),
since recently and thanks to Pierre Mai. Check the list of supported
platforms at

  <URL:http://www.cons.org/cmucl/platforms.html>

It doesn't currently work on NetBSD.

-- 
Eric Marsden                          <URL:http://www.laas.fr/~emarsden/>
From: Pierre R. Mai
Subject: Re: CL on NetBSD or OpenBSD
Date: 
Message-ID: <87r8osltc5.fsf@orion.bln.pmsf.de>
Nils Kassube <····@kassube.de> writes:

Since both NetBSD and OpenBSD are available on lots of platforms, I'm
assuming you mean the X86 platform in the following reply...

> Is it possible to use 
> 
>       - CMU CL

The Linux and FreeBSD versions of CMU CL don't work under the binary
emulations of OpenBSD, so a port to OpenBSD has been undertaken,
which is available in the experimental directory of the CMU CL
distribution site (and mirrors).  Should work with OpenBSD 2.9 and
later versions.  The upcoming release of CMU CL will include this port
side-by-side with the other x86 ports.

None of those seem to work for NetBSD, though.  But if someone could
offer access to a NetBSD system, I'd be willing to look into porting
to NetBSD, too...

> on a NetBSD or OpenBSD system? I already know CLISP works.

Regs, Pierre.

-- 
Pierre R. Mai <····@acm.org>                    http://www.pmsf.de/pmai/
 The most likely way for the world to be destroyed, most experts agree,
 is by accident. That's where we come in; we're computer professionals.
 We cause accidents.                           -- Nathaniel Borenstein
From: Nils Kassube
Subject: Re: CL on NetBSD or OpenBSD
Date: 
Message-ID: <87y9j0advy.fsf@kursk.kassube.de>
"Pierre R. Mai" <····@acm.org> writes:

> Since both NetBSD and OpenBSD are available on lots of platforms, I'm
> assuming you mean the X86 platform in the following reply...

I also have a NetBSD/macppc system at home :-) But x86 is fine,
because I'm looking for an implementation for my laptop anyway. 
 
> The Linux and FreeBSD versions of CMU CL don't work under the binary
> emulations of OpenBSD, so a port to OpenBSD has been undertaken,

Wonderful. Danke. 

> None of those seem to work for NetBSD, though.  But if someone could
> offer access to a NetBSD system, I'd be willing to look into porting
> to NetBSD, too...

Personally I don't have a NetBSD/x86 system permanently (?) on the net, 
but you can get access to NetBSD/x86 (and Alpha if you've got a lot of
free time :-) with Compaq's free testdrive program: 

        http://www.testdrive.compaq.com/os/#bsd

Cheers,
Nils
From: Pierre R. Mai
Subject: Re: CL on NetBSD or OpenBSD
Date: 
Message-ID: <87advgljqh.fsf@orion.bln.pmsf.de>
Nils Kassube <····@kassube.de> writes:

> > None of those seem to work for NetBSD, though.  But if someone could
> > offer access to a NetBSD system, I'd be willing to look into porting
> > to NetBSD, too...
> 
> Personally I don't have a NetBSD/x86 system permanently (?) on the net, 
> but you can get access to NetBSD/x86 (and Alpha if you've got a lot of
> free time :-) with Compaq's free testdrive program: 

AFAICT Compaq currently offers NetBSD only on Alpha hardware...

Regs, Pierre.

-- 
Pierre R. Mai <····@acm.org>                    http://www.pmsf.de/pmai/
 The most likely way for the world to be destroyed, most experts agree,
 is by accident. That's where we come in; we're computer professionals.
 We cause accidents.                           -- Nathaniel Borenstein
From: Pierre R. Mai
Subject: Re: CL on NetBSD or OpenBSD
Date: 
Message-ID: <87665u8jm4.fsf@orion.bln.pmsf.de>
Nils Kassube <····@kassube.de> writes:

> "Pierre R. Mai" <····@acm.org> writes:
> 
> > Since both NetBSD and OpenBSD are available on lots of platforms, I'm
> > assuming you mean the X86 platform in the following reply...
> 
> I also have a NetBSD/macppc system at home :-) But x86 is fine,
> because I'm looking for an implementation for my laptop anyway. 
>  
> > The Linux and FreeBSD versions of CMU CL don't work under the binary
> > emulations of OpenBSD, so a port to OpenBSD has been undertaken,
> 
> Wonderful. Danke. 
> 
> > None of those seem to work for NetBSD, though.  But if someone could
> > offer access to a NetBSD system, I'd be willing to look into porting
> > to NetBSD, too...

With the support of Johannes Gr�dem, I have created a port of CMU CL
to NetBSD/x86 1.5.2, which should be available in the experimental
directory of the CMU CL distribution site (and in the course of the
next days on most mirrors).

Note though that the port is quite untested, and has the following
specific restrictions/quirks:

- NetBSD 1.5.2 on x86 doesn't provide access to the faulting memory
  address in SIGSEGV handlers, hence the generational GC can't use a
  hardware-based write-barrier in order to reduce the need to track
  pointers from older generations to newer ones, resulting in degraded
  GC performance.

- AFAICT NetBSD only allows mmaping strictly less than 128 MB on each
  call, so that I had to hack the memory management routines to mmap
  the various areas in chunks of 64MB.  This is likely to cause
  decreased VM performance, and might have introduced bugs in certain
  corner-cases.

  Furthermore I don't know if the 64MB figure will work on all
  systems, or is dependent on the machine/configuration in question.

- The FFI code seems to work, but hasn't received more than cursory
  testing...

Regs, Pierre.

-- 
Pierre R. Mai <····@acm.org>                    http://www.pmsf.de/pmai/
 The most likely way for the world to be destroyed, most experts agree,
 is by accident. That's where we come in; we're computer professionals.
 We cause accidents.                           -- Nathaniel Borenstein
From: Valtteri Vuorikoski
Subject: Re: CL on NetBSD or OpenBSD
Date: 
Message-ID: <x4665rirh9.fsf@puuhamaa.magenta.net>
"Pierre R. Mai" <····@acm.org> writes:

> - AFAICT NetBSD only allows mmaping strictly less than 128 MB on each
>   call, so that I had to hack the memory management routines to mmap
>   the various areas in chunks of 64MB.  This is likely to cause
>   decreased VM performance, and might have introduced bugs in certain
>   corner-cases.

This seems to be controlled by resource limits (as controlled by
{get,set}rlimit(2))?  The default limit for data size is
128MB. Performing 'unlimit datasize' (in zsh, your shell may vary)
makes mmap(NULL, 256*1024*1024, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_ANON, -1, 0);
succeed in a simple test program.

 -v
From: user
Subject: Re: CL on NetBSD or OpenBSD
Date: 
Message-ID: <6BO08.5731$rA.439200@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>
>       - Xanalys LispWorks

> on a NetBSD or OpenBSD system? I already know CLISP works.
>

Not really an answer to your question :-), but you and others might be
interested to know that Linux LW 4.1.20 does run on FreeBSD.  I had to use
the Linux port of Lesstif, but it does work.  I have not had time yet to
investigate if there is a port for OpenMotif on Free BSD.

LW 4.2 is out tomorrow (I think, 01-15...), and I will try that too, when I
get a chance.

Good luck...