In article <····························@posting.google.com>,
·······@Yahoo.Com wrote:
>···@accton.shaw.ca (Kaz Kylheku) wrote in message news:<·····················@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>...
>> Try making your program send e-mail instead. This is a much better
>> solution, because the mail can be redirected anywhere, and you don't
>> lose a notification just because you are not logged in when it occurs.
>
>That's no good at all. I won't even know there's e-mail for me until
>perhaps several hours later when I happen to check e-mail the next time.
If it takes you several hours to get your mail when you are physically
present and logged in, that is odd.
>On the current system, if COMSAT is switched on (which I can do from
>.procmailrc so that spam doesn't bleep me but e-mail from my special
>buddies *does* bleep me), any incoming e-mail generates a header plus
>five lines of message text plus audible bleeps.
Never mind comsat, a half decent shell can tell you that you have new
mail in a local spool and spit out a message like
``you have new mail in /var/spool/mail/yourname''.
If you get mail remotely via say IMAP, you can just keep a mail client
running and connected to the server. Messages drip in, and show up
on the user interface.
>But sometime on or
>before this coming Friday we're moving across to a new shell machine
>where COMSAT doesn't work, no matter what the setting of the COMSAT
>global variable, whether turned on by 'biff y' or explicitly inside
>.procmailrc, incoming e-mail never ever bleeps at me, so I'm trying to
>find some alternate way for somebody to urgently alert me when I'm online.
>If they are sitting on IRC wanting to talk with me, if I get a bleep
>within a minute and get on IRC within a couple more minutes, that's fine,
Can't you just be connected to an IRC server all the time? Someone
can /msg your nick if they want you.
You know, millions of computer-illiterate users have figured out
how to solve the problem you are having. The run an obnoxious little
application called an ``instant messenger''. Have you ever heard of that?
It's connected who knows where all the time, and will alert them when
their buddies are online. These things have all kinds of cutsey features
for little girls and idiots, like emoticons that turn into little
pictures, and multi-colored text.
If you are that desperate to engage in mindless chatter, you can have
your computer page you through some e-mail-to-pager gateway. (See? The
e-mail based solution has latent possibilities that the /bin/write based
solution doesn't.) If I send an e-mail to a special address, it shows
up on my cellular phone, which beeps within seconds of the e-mail being
sent, and I can read it on the phone. This sort of capability is close
to dirt cheap these days.
The concern nowadays would be how to *avoid* all this garbage
coming at you on all these channels.
From: Brian P Templeton
Subject: Re: CMUCL (on Unix) question, how to bleep a user's terminal?
Date:
Message-ID: <87sn9biju3.fsf@tunes.org>
···@accton.shaw.ca (Kaz Kylheku) writes:
> In article <····························@posting.google.com>,
> ·······@Yahoo.Com wrote:
>>···@accton.shaw.ca (Kaz Kylheku) wrote in message news:<·····················@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>...
>>> Try making your program send e-mail instead. This is a much better
>>> solution, because the mail can be redirected anywhere, and you don't
>>> lose a notification just because you are not logged in when it occurs.
>>
>>That's no good at all. I won't even know there's e-mail for me until
>>perhaps several hours later when I happen to check e-mail the next time.
>
> If it takes you several hours to get your mail when you are physically
> present and logged in, that is odd.
>
>>On the current system, if COMSAT is switched on (which I can do from
>>.procmailrc so that spam doesn't bleep me but e-mail from my special
>>buddies *does* bleep me), any incoming e-mail generates a header plus
>>five lines of message text plus audible bleeps.
>
> Never mind comsat, a half decent shell can tell you that you have new
> mail in a local spool and spit out a message like
> ``you have new mail in /var/spool/mail/yourname''.
>
> If you get mail remotely via say IMAP, you can just keep a mail client
> running and connected to the server. Messages drip in, and show up
> on the user interface.
>
>>But sometime on or
>>before this coming Friday we're moving across to a new shell machine
>>where COMSAT doesn't work, no matter what the setting of the COMSAT
>>global variable, whether turned on by 'biff y' or explicitly inside
>>.procmailrc, incoming e-mail never ever bleeps at me, so I'm trying to
>>find some alternate way for somebody to urgently alert me when I'm online.
>>If they are sitting on IRC wanting to talk with me, if I get a bleep
>>within a minute and get on IRC within a couple more minutes, that's fine,
>
> Can't you just be connected to an IRC server all the time? Someone
> can /msg your nick if they want you.
>
> You know, millions of computer-illiterate users have figured out
> how to solve the problem you are having. The run an obnoxious little
> application called an ``instant messenger''. Have you ever heard of that?
> It's connected who knows where all the time, and will alert them when
> their buddies are online. These things have all kinds of cutsey features
> for little girls and idiots, like emoticons that turn into little
> pictures, and multi-colored text.
>
Jabber isn't *that* bad. It's useful for private conversation (e.g.
that you don't want on IRC for whatever reason) with logging that's
better than ytalk's. Of course, AOL AIM is completely useless.
> If you are that desperate to engage in mindless chatter, you can have
> your computer page you through some e-mail-to-pager gateway. (See? The
> e-mail based solution has latent possibilities that the /bin/write based
> solution doesn't.) If I send an e-mail to a special address, it shows
> up on my cellular phone, which beeps within seconds of the e-mail being
> sent, and I can read it on the phone. This sort of capability is close
> to dirt cheap these days.
>
> The concern nowadays would be how to *avoid* all this garbage
> coming at you on all these channels.
--
BPT <···@tunes.org> /"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign
backronym for Linux: \ / No HTML or RTF in mail
Linux Is Not Unix X No MS-Word in mail
Meme plague ;) ---------> / \ Respect Open Standards
···@accton.shaw.ca (Kaz Kylheku) wrote in message news:<·····················@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>...
> If it takes you several hours to get your mail when you are physically
> present and logged in, that is odd.
Normally the *only* e-mail that ever comes to my ISP account is spam,
and automatical acknowledgements of complaints about spam. Maybe
once every two months I get some important message from my sysadmin.
It simply is *not* worth spending my time checking every frew minutes
to see if I have any more spam, when I have to manually start up pine,
manually find where the last spam was, then scan from there forward
to see if there's anything other than spam, then mark in a local file
where the last spam was so I can get back there again. Spam makes
my ISP e-mail account totally useless for any regular e-mail, so I
get all my personal e-mail via my Yahoo account which makes some
attempt to divert spam to a "Bulk Mail" folder instead of my inbox.
I really do want new e-mail, spam and all, to briefly bleep me on-screen,
without me having to spend several minutes going into PINE and checking
manually and keeping track of where I left off etc. I do *not* want to
have to make manual effort to check for new e-mail at regular intervals
when for months on end there's no decent e-mail at all, only spam, and
all my work manually starting up PINE etc. is a waste of my energy.
Fortunately I wrote, in CMUCL, code to automatically remember where the
last of the old e-mail was, and bleep me if there's any new e-mail past
that point, and show me the key header lines (mail0 line, From: and Subject:)
and if that's another spam or auto-ack of spam complaint I can just glance
at it and get ribht back to what I was in the middle of with only that
briefest interruption. Eventually I hope to write code to automatically
recognize the standard formletters for spam-complaint auto-acknowledgements,
such as from UUNET, and *not* bleep me when such new e-mail arrives, but
still update the pointer to the last of the old e-mail. I might even
write code to scan spam to detect common themes and automatically recognize
such themes and *not* bleep me when new spam comes in if it's on a topic
I already know as spam.
> Never mind comsat, a half decent shell can tell you that you have new
> mail in a local spool and spit out a message like
> ``you have new mail in /var/spool/mail/yourname''.
Never mind that. Writing in shell-script language is horribly ugly
compared to writing in LISP. I've already (since I posted a few weeks
ago) implmeneted the alert-new-e-mail function in CMUCL.
> Can't you just be connected to an IRC server all the time? Someone
> can /msg your nick if they want you.
That transmits the text to the TELNET under which I'm running IRC,
but if that TELNET is not the currently running process, and not
in background running, then I won't see that /msg on IRC until maybe
a couple hours later when I happen to re-active my TELNET to see anything
that transpired on my IRC channel during that time. Because IRC sends
the time-of-day once per minute, I don't want to 'bg' my TELNET because
then I'd get time-of-day blasting across my screen once per minute,
forcing me to spend time refreshing my lynx or other screen once per
minute, a royal hassle!!!
If I can figure out how to run IRC under a PTY under CMUCL, then I could
have CMUCL filter output to eliminate the once-per-minute time-of-day
info but show me anything else such as somebody joining my channel.
> You know, millions of computer-illiterate users have figured out
> how to solve the problem you are having. The run an obnoxious little
> application called an ``instant messenger''. Have you ever heard of that?
Yes, I have. I wish it ran on Unix via VT100 dialup, but the last time
I checked there was no such version available. If you know of any,
please tell me. Harassing me with demeaning rhetorical "questions" as
to whether I knot about it is very rude, so please don't do that again.
I doubt *any* computer-illiterate user has *ever* figured out how
to implement Instant Messagner on Unix via VT100 dialup, so what
you are sayign is patently untrue, and demeaning me because I haven't
yet dome something that nobody else even the foremost wizards in the
world has ever done, is very very rude. If the best experts can't
make a version of Instant Messenger that runs on Unix under VT100,
then why do you consider me stupid not to have done it where they failed?
Heck, after I get done with what I'm working on now, if you can show
me the formal protocol specs for Instant Messenger, I might be able to
implement it under CMUCL to run on Unix under VT100 dialup, the first
such implementatin ever. I alrady am thinking of writing a HTML chat
that actualy works, again using CMUCL to implement it. (All the staff
at Yahoo hasn't figured out how to make their HTML club chat work, so
if I manage to figure out how to do something like that, will you give
me some crecit?i At this time, I think I have a pretty good idea how
I want toimplement it, but without any money to pay for my time I won't
do it until my current project is finished.) The only HTML chat I
found that even halfway works is on http://chat.healthyplace.com,
but it has major problems. For example, the only way to see anything
that anybody said is to say something yourself, blind, whereby you get
then to see anything anyone said up to the point you said that new thing,
but nothing anyone said after what you said. If you press the REFRESH
button, it sends another copy of whatever you said before, annoying the
other people in the chat room. I would avoid those annoying design bugs
if and when I write my own HTML chat server.
> It's connected who knows where all the time, and will alert them when
> their buddies are online. These things have all kinds of cutsey features
> for little girls and idiots, like emoticons that turn into little
> pictures, and multi-colored text.
I've never had access to any such thing, so all that is fun to read but
moot to my situation. Like I said, if you know of any version of it that
runs on Unix shell with VT100 dialup, please tell me, other wise quit
bragging about how you have access to something I can't get access to.
> If you are that desperate to engage in mindless chatter, you can have
> your computer page you through some e-mail-to-pager gateway.
There's a woman near Toronto who wants me to teach her how to program
in LISP, by getting together in some kind of live online chat whereby
I can copy&paste between our chat and my local Unix CMUCL session as
I explain what's going on.. How exactly is that midless chatter?
(You seem to be prejudging a lot. That's very rude and stupid of you.)
Unfortunatley she doesn't have IRC and doesn't know how to downloadi
new software, so I can't simply get on IRC with her as I did with the
person in Pennsylvania. (She didn't even know hexadecimal notation,
so I explained it to her via IRC.)
As for the pager specifically: How will feeding stuff into soembody's
pager be of any use to me? Will you pay me to write LISP software for
you so that I can have money for a pager of my own?? Or will you allow
me to send bleeps to your pager then you'll walk over to my apartment
to let me know you got a page that was really for me?
> If I send an e-mail to a special address, it shows
> up on my cellular phone, which beeps within seconds of the e-mail being
> sent, and I can read it on the phone. This sort of capability is close
> to dirt cheap these days.
What's your special address? I'd like to re-direct all my spam there
so you instead of I will have to deal with it.
> The concern nowadays would be how to *avoid* all this garbage
> coming at you on all these channels.
That's only half the problem. The other half is getting the good
stuff in a timely manner. Funny how you seem to not see half the problem.
Will you please try my CGI/CMUCL application:
http://shell.rawbw.com/~rem/cgi-bin/topscript.cgi
:which is admittedly a frivolous application but demonstrates some really
useful utilities I've written, such as matching substrings of student's
typed-in answer against substrings of correct answer to guide the student
toward the correct answer, for many online educational applications such
as learning reading/spelling/punctuation/grammar, foreign languages,
technical jargon, anything else you have to memorize before you can
use that to go further (for example, if you can't remember any of the
foreign language vocabulary, all the grammar rules are worthless).
Then please help me find somebody willing to pay me to develop WebServer
applications of a more serious use for them? One new idea I have lately,
since discovering that Roget's International Thesaurus is online, is
to use the thesaurus as a starting point for understanding natural
language, disambiguating words that have more than one meaning, for such
uses as FAQ-answering, computer dating, ... Do you know anybody interested
in funding work on that approach toward natural-language understanding?
In article <····························@posting.google.com>,
·······@Yahoo.Com wrote:
[asked about running instant messenger]
> Yes, I have. I wish it ran on Unix via VT100 dialup, but the last time
> I checked there was no such version available. If you know of any,
> please tell me.
http://tnt.sourceforge.net/
Dennis
From: ·······@inetmi.com
Subject: Re: CMUCL (on Unix) question, how to bleep a user's terminal?
Date:
Message-ID: <ug04bi755.fsf@chicago.inetmi.com>
Dennis Marti <············@yahoo.com> writes:
> In article <····························@posting.google.com>,
> ·······@Yahoo.Com wrote:
>
> [asked about running instant messenger]
>
> > Yes, I have. I wish it ran on Unix via VT100 dialup, but the last
> > time I checked there was no such version available. If you know of
> > any, please tell me.
>
> http://tnt.sourceforge.net/
I've used this code as a base for a Common Lisp version, it's not
hard. If someone is dying to have it, I might be able to give it out.
John
·······@inetmi.com wrote in message news:<·············@chicago.inetmi.com>...
<<I've used this code as a base for a Common Lisp version,
it's not hard. If someone is dying to have it, I might be
able to give it out.>>
Does it work only with AOL IM, or also with Yahoo Messenger?
Does it use a biff/comsat-like method (*) to alert the user
when a new message arrives if that user has been off doing
something else until then?
Does it work fine if I'm connected to Unix shell via VT100
dialup and not using 'screen' at the time?
* ("method" in the normal English sense, not specifically
the OOP/Flavors jargon)
From: ·······@inetmi.com
Subject: Re: CMUCL (on Unix) question, how to bleep a user's terminal?
Date:
Message-ID: <uu1si1b4g.fsf@chicago.inetmi.com>
·······@Yahoo.Com writes:
> ·······@inetmi.com wrote in message news:<·············@chicago.inetmi.com>...
> <<I've used this code as a base for a Common Lisp version,
> it's not hard. If someone is dying to have it, I might be
> able to give it out.>>
>
> Does it work only with AOL IM, or also with Yahoo Messenger?
AOL IM only.
> Does it use a biff/comsat-like method (*) to alert the user when a
> new message arrives if that user has been off doing something else
> until then?
>
> Does it work fine if I'm connected to Unix shell via VT100 dialup
> and not using 'screen' at the time?
Sorry, I should have made it more clear that while the emacs version
is in fact a full-featured client with user interface and everything,
the common lisp version is just a library for writing clients.
John
In article <····························@posting.google.com>,
·······@Yahoo.Com wrote:
>If I can figure out how to run IRC under a PTY under CMUCL, then I could
>have CMUCL filter output to eliminate the once-per-minute time-of-day
>info but show me anything else such as somebody joining my channel.
>
>> You know, millions of computer-illiterate users have figured out
>> how to solve the problem you are having. The run an obnoxious little
>> application called an ``instant messenger''. Have you ever heard of that?
>
>Yes, I have. I wish it ran on Unix via VT100 dialup, but the last time
>I checked there was no such version available. If you know of any,
>please tell me.
It exists. It's called IRC; you already use it.
There is a nice piece of Unix freeware called ``screen''. It's has been
around for years and years. It multiplexes multiple virtual tty sessions
on one tty, and even allows you to detach and reattach these sessions. You
could have an IRC running in one virtual window while doing things in
other ones. The program can watch the sessions for activity and alert
you. So if someone, for instance, sends you a /msg in the IRC window,
you will know. Screen is extremely useful for people like yourself who
use dialup.
I sincerely hope you get together with that woman in Toronto who can't
download or install programs, but supposedly wants to learn to program.
Your odds are not great, however, and you will actually have to go
to Toronto if your net.fantasies are to come true.
I previously said:
>If I can figure out how to run IRC under a PTY under CMUCL, then I could
>have CMUCL filter output to eliminate the once-per-minute time-of-day
>info but show me anything else such as somebody joining my channel.
whereupon somebody replied that I should use Instant
Messenger instead of IRC, whereupon I responded that Instant
Messenger isn't available on Unix as far as I know:
>... I wish it ran on Unix via VT100 dialup, but the last time
>I checked there was no such version available. If you know of any,
>please tell me.
whereupon Kaz Kylheku (···@accton.shaw.ca) responded:
<<It exists. It's called IRC; you already use it.>>
Context error: That makes no sense in relation to what we
were saying. It is *not* possible for me to use IRC to talk
to IM people or vice versa as far as I know. Am I correct?
Furthermore, IRC doesn't provide the same style of services
that IM provides, which is a good reason why nobody has
setup a gateway between them, right? Furthermore your flip
remark that I'm already using IRC and claiming that's
asolution to my problem that IRC insists on printing a
time-of-day message every minute, is flat out wrong and
disrespectful of me and my query. The IRC that I know is in
no way a Unix implementation of IM!! I stand by my claim
that there is no implementation of IM that runs on Unix
under VT100 dialup, but I would be glad if I'm mistaken and
somebody with more courtesy than Kaz Kylheku would please
tell me where to find such. In the mean time, I'll be stuck
with IRC until such time as I use CGI/CMUCL to implement a
working HTML chatroom (Yahoo Club's HTML chat is totally
broken, and HealthyPlace's HTML chat is almost unusable, I'm
sure I can do better than either, which would finally allow
people on Unix VT100 shell accounts who don't have java
available to talk live with people on non-Unix systems who
don't have IRC available and don't want to go to all the
trouble of downloading and installing it just to talk with
me live). P.S. Is there any funding available to pay me to
develop such an HTML chat service? I might even interface it
to IRC, so that anyone with HTML but not IRC can go through
my interace to get on IRC channels.
<<There is a nice piece of Unix freeware called ``screen''.
It's has been around for years and years. It multiplexes
multiple virtual tty sessions on one tty, and even allows
you to detach and reattach these sessions. You could have an
IRC running in one virtual window while doing things in
other ones. The program can watch the sessions for activity
and alert you.>>
I already can do that simply by running multiple TELENTs in
background. Any output from any of them is spewed out to my
terminal.
<<So if someone, for instance, sends you a /msg in the IRC
window, you will know.>>
TELNET in background already does that. You beg the question
I asked: How to filter out those per-minute time-of-day
notices that IRC loves to print to the next-to-bottom line
of the screen, while still allowing all other traffic such
as somebody joining the channel or somebody talking on the
channel to be seen by me right away (or alert me that I need
to check the IRC process when that happens, but *not8 alert
every minute when the time-of-day banner is printed).
So does the 'screen' program support easily-tailored
filtering of what (from the sub-process, IRC in this case)
it just ignores and what it alerts me to, sort of analagous
to a killfile for filtering a UseNet newsfeed, or a buddies
vs. enemies filter for Instant Messenger, or like
procmail-based spam filter for e-mail, etc., except it's
done on a per-line basis within an existing
connection/session?
On 26 Jan 2002 14:00:17 -0800, ·······@Yahoo.Com wrote:
> If I can figure out how to run IRC under a PTY under CMUCL, then I could
This might be useful:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/chattal/
You may also have a look at the IRC bots mentioned in the IRC section of
CLiki:
http://ww.telent.net/cliki
Paolo
--
EncyCMUCLopedia * Extensive collection of CMU Common Lisp documentation
http://web.mclink.it/amoroso/ency/README
[http://cvs2.cons.org:8000/cmucl/doc/EncyCMUCLopedia/]
Paolo Amoroso <·······@mclink.it> wrote in message news:<····························@4ax.com>...
<<This might be useful:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/chattal/ >>
[[Artificially Intelligent IRC Agent. An artificially intelligent
Internet Relay Chat Agent (or bot) that mimics human interaction, and
provides an information repository for learned topics. Goal is to make
interaction indistinguishable from a human.]]
<<...>> denotes text the other person wrote in this thread,
whereas [[...]] denotes text found on a WebPage per the
just-preceding URL.
Um, that's not what I'm interested in accomplishing (and
'bots such as that are forbidden on the IRC net that I
typically use). I just want a TELNET-like thing between me
and IRC that filters content so it bleeps me on some things
but not on others, specifically for the moment bleeping me
for everything except per-minute clock-updates.
<<You may also have a look at the IRC bots mentioned in the
IRC section of CLiki:
http://ww.telent.net/cliki>>
Um, I got sidetracked by some wonderful stuff there, such as
the comparioson between LISP and java/C/C++ whereby LISP
runs as fast as C/C++ which is much faster than Java, uses
about the same amount of memory as Java, and has much
shorter development time than any of the others, making it
preferrable to Java without question and a viable
alternative to C/C++ on any machine with lots of RAM,
especially one that shares pages the way CMUCL does on Unix
so that all the many copies of CMUCL that are started don't
really consume much new memory each. The only problem is
there are java-enabled Web browsers and WebSites that cater
to them, so maybe somebody here should make a LISP-enabled
browser and then make some WebSites that cater to them?
And just to be smart about it, emulate Java inside CL so
that our LISP-based WebBrowser can do all the stuff the
Java-catering WebSites ask us to do.