From: news.verizon.net
Subject: Lisp Enterprise Servers
Date: 
Message-ID: <6w029.1668$0S2.1238@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>
Are there any Lisp based enterprise servers out there?  While .NET and the
J2EE application servers fall into the range of Component Transaction
Monitors (CTM), I was wondering if there was anything out there that
provided those services to for Lisp.

If they aren't available, what would be a good approach for Lisp?

GOO would (or could) fall easily into a CTM while the non-oop would fall
more into alignment with the TM (Transaction Monitor) systems used for
COBOL, C, and PL/I.

The more I think about it, a Lisp system would simply need a few libraries
and a means of providing access to exposed functions...

What are your thoughts?

John

From: Espen Vestre
Subject: Re: Lisp Enterprise Servers
Date: 
Message-ID: <kwr8hj2eik.fsf@merced.netfonds.no>
"news.verizon.net" <············@verizon.net> writes:

> Are there any Lisp based enterprise servers out there?  

I understood just a fraction of what you said, but I'll try an aswer
anyway: I think you may want to consider CORBA if you want
buzzword-compliant interoperability of lisp servers/clients.  Both LW
and ACL provide CORBA implementations.
-- 
  (espen)
From: Joel Ray Holveck
Subject: Re: Lisp Enterprise Servers
Date: 
Message-ID: <y7cu1medxgg.fsf@sindri.juniper.net>
> Are there any Lisp based enterprise servers out there?

Well, "enterprise server" is a term I try to avoid, since it's a
loaded buzzword.

But I do have something that provides the type of functionality most
"enterprise server" packages I've seen on the market do.  (I'm
referring to a production application, not a generic library.)  It
really amounts to writing a remote object protocol (really, just a
remote function call protocol; I used CMUCL's WIRE at first) that can
be a wrapper around your real code.  It's a lot easier in Lisp than I
can imagine it being in any other language.

I'm presently wrestling with a few distributed GC problems, but most
"enterprise servers" I've looked at don't handle this well either.
I'm currently dealing with the problem by using TCP for the
connection, limiting remote object lifetimes to the duration of the
TCP connection, and not allowing clients to pass around remote object
references.  There's some better solutions in the GC-LIST FAQ.

I didn't see much in the way of questions in your post, so I guess
you're just looking for encouragement.  I say, go for it!

Hope this helps,
joelh
From: Friedrich Dominicus
Subject: Re: Lisp Enterprise Servers
Date: 
Message-ID: <87d6t1redj.fsf@fbigm.here>
Joel Ray Holveck <·····@juniper.net> writes:

> > Are there any Lisp based enterprise servers out there?
> 
> Well, "enterprise server" is a term I try to avoid, since it's a
> loaded buzzword.
> 
> But I do have something that provides the type of functionality most
> "enterprise server" packages I've seen on the market do.
Can one get ones hands on it?

Regards
Friedrich
From: Joel Ray Holveck
Subject: Re: Lisp Enterprise Servers
Date: 
Message-ID: <y7cd6t1em28.fsf@sindri.juniper.net>
>>> Are there any Lisp based enterprise servers out there?
>> Well, "enterprise server" is a term I try to avoid, since it's a
>> loaded buzzword.
>> But I do have something that provides the type of functionality most
>> "enterprise server" packages I've seen on the market do.
> Can one get ones hands on it?

Like I say, it's pretty application-specific, and I haven't yet gone
through legal to release it outside the company.  Can you describe
what it is you need, so we can see if it fits?

joelh
From: Friedrich Dominicus
Subject: Re: Lisp Enterprise Servers
Date: 
Message-ID: <87znw5m9mh.fsf@fbigm.here>
Joel Ray Holveck <·····@juniper.net> writes:

> >>> Are there any Lisp based enterprise servers out there?
> >> Well, "enterprise server" is a term I try to avoid, since it's a
> >> loaded buzzword.
> >> But I do have something that provides the type of functionality most
> >> "enterprise server" packages I've seen on the market do.
> > Can one get ones hands on it?
> 
> Like I say, it's pretty application-specific, and I haven't yet gone
> through legal to release it outside the company.  Can you describe
> what it is you need, so we can see if it fits?
Oh it's just curiosity. I'm going to change my homepage from
using PHP/Mysql/Apache to AllegroServe/Apache/Common Lisp/MySQL and or
Postgres. This page is more than less self-made and probably does have
a good interface but a poor internal structure. Informations are
cluttered all around and you usually have to access a few pages for
getting all the new information integrated. Well in fact it's a bit
poor. 

What do we have
- Information about our products and services
- some Mailing lists (with either a Web or Mail Interface)
- sort of bug-tracking

Well this is what I like to clean up.

Regards
Friedrich
From: Fernando Rodr�guez
Subject: Re: Lisp Enterprise Servers
Date: 
Message-ID: <d8ilku4k98m6b7ps18pe4i8h1pab10pto2@4ax.com>
On 02 Aug 2002 19:52:06 +0200, Friedrich Dominicus
<·····@q-software-solutions.com> wrote:


>Oh it's just curiosity. I'm going to change my homepage from
>using PHP/Mysql/Apache to AllegroServe/Apache/Common Lisp/MySQL and or

Are you going to use AllegroServe _and_ Apache?



-----------------------
Fernando Rodriguez
From: Christopher Browne
Subject: Re: Lisp Enterprise Servers
Date: 
Message-ID: <aiel4p$12ch0c$1@ID-125932.news.dfncis.de>
The world rejoiced as Fernando Rodr�guez <····@ya.com> wrote:
> On 02 Aug 2002 19:52:06 +0200, Friedrich Dominicus
> <·····@q-software-solutions.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Oh it's just curiosity. I'm going to change my homepage from
>>using PHP/Mysql/Apache to AllegroServe/Apache/Common Lisp/MySQL and or
>
> Are you going to use AllegroServe _and_ Apache?

I would.

Apache is _perfectly good_ at serving up Plain, Ordinary HTML Files.
It does that very well.  To use it for that purpose does not indicate
any admission that "Lisp is incompetent at serving web sites."
-- 
(reverse (concatenate 'string ····················@" "454aa"))
http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/linuxdistributions.html
Language was designed  by people for their own  use, so  presumably it
[parsing]  shouldn't be  too difficult for  them to   do with whatever
algorithm they have.  -- Bill Martin (6.863 lecture, spring 1980)
From: Fernando Rodr�guez
Subject: Re: Lisp Enterprise Servers
Date: 
Message-ID: <me4oku8dainmvds6hot3bpv24u2kn1tdsn@4ax.com>
On 2 Aug 2002 19:04:58 GMT, Christopher Browne <········@acm.org> wrote:

>The world rejoiced as Fernando Rodr�guez <····@ya.com> wrote:
>> On 02 Aug 2002 19:52:06 +0200, Friedrich Dominicus
>> <·····@q-software-solutions.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Oh it's just curiosity. I'm going to change my homepage from
>>>using PHP/Mysql/Apache to AllegroServe/Apache/Common Lisp/MySQL and or
>>
>> Are you going to use AllegroServe _and_ Apache?
>
>I would.
>
>Apache is _perfectly good_ at serving up Plain, Ordinary HTML Files.
>It does that very well.  To use it for that purpose does not indicate
>any admission that "Lisp is incompetent at serving web sites."

I wasn't trying to imply that.  I have no real experience with http servers,
but I thought that having 2 servers was an unnecesary complication: isn't
AllegroServe good enough at serving static stuff? O:-)



-----------------------
Fernando Rodriguez
From: Friedrich Dominicus
Subject: Re: Lisp Enterprise Servers
Date: 
Message-ID: <87eldgv8to.fsf@fbigm.here>
Fernando Rodr�guez <····@ya.com> writes:

> On 02 Aug 2002 19:52:06 +0200, Friedrich Dominicus
> <·····@q-software-solutions.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> >Oh it's just curiosity. I'm going to change my homepage from
> >using PHP/Mysql/Apache to AllegroServe/Apache/Common Lisp/MySQL and or
> 
> Are you going to use AllegroServe _and_ Apache?
Yes. Apache is quite matured and if some extension is needed, one can
be sure to find it there. I found out that getting AllegroServe and
Apache together is easy.

Regards
Friedrich
From: news.verizon.net
Subject: Re: Lisp Enterprise Servers
Date: 
Message-ID: <ljH29.353$oo2.68@nwrddc04.gnilink.net>
"Joel Ray Holveck" <·····@juniper.net> wrote in message
····················@sindri.juniper.net...

> I didn't see much in the way of questions in your post, so I guess
> you're just looking for encouragement.  I say, go for it!
>

Thanks!