From: Asha Das
Subject: Learning CAPI
Date: 
Message-ID: <a8g9t6$p5u$1@news6.jaring.my>
Hello,

I've been using Lispworks Personal Edition to study Common Lisp.  I like it
mostly because it's a reliable system that behaves the way it's supposed
to - that is, it conforms to ANSI CL (as far as I can tell) - and its
responses have been entirely predictable.  Recently, however, I feel as
though I have surpassed some personal singularity for exasperation while
evaluating Lispwork's CAPI.

I've heard about the lack of documentation, but I thought that I could
reconstruct what I needed from the reference manual, the CAPI examples, Wade
Humenick's package-browser, and the class browser.  This was not to be.
From a few lines in an example file, one cannot reconstruct an MDI interface
or a complex docking layout  (I'm using Windows, btw).  From a coy method
name, one cannot guess its function.  A class browser is great only when you
know what you're looking for.  I'm totally frustrated because Lispworks is
so good, yet in just this one respect it is severely lacking.

If you've been using CAPI for Win32, how did you figure out what is what ?
(I
know that the support call option is available, but I have more than a few
questions).

Thanks.

From: Greg Menke
Subject: Re: Learning CAPI
Date: 
Message-ID: <m36638nlwt.fsf@europa.pienet>
> I've been using Lispworks Personal Edition to study Common Lisp.  I like it
> mostly because it's a reliable system that behaves the way it's supposed
> to - that is, it conforms to ANSI CL (as far as I can tell) - and its
> responses have been entirely predictable.  Recently, however, I feel as
> though I have surpassed some personal singularity for exasperation while
> evaluating Lispwork's CAPI.

I know what you mean.  Coming from a Windows C/Visual C/MFC
environment really poisoned me for CAPI- I had to unlearn quite a bit.
One thing that really helped me to gain understanding of how the
objects go together & operate was to lay out simple windows using the
Interface Builder & see how the code is generated & changed.  It took
me a number of examples starting with the obligatory
press-a-button-to-fill-in-the-textbox things up to opengl rendering
before I started to understand CAPI a little better.

That point reached, I found CAPI a lot less tortuous than MFC-
certainly lots better organized with a hugely simplified and orderly
interface.  Even so, I think it will take a bit of practice to be
facile with it- though I suspect that complicated GUI systems will be
a lot less painful in CAPI than MFC.  If I might suggest one thing, it
might be helpful to not mess with MDI & docking windows for a little
while- at least until you have a better grasp of CAPI from top to
bottom.

I agree that the docs (at least in LW4.1) left quite a lot to be
desired.  So far LW4.2 looks better documented (and significantly
enhanced from 4.1), though I've only had my copy for about a week and
haven't started really digging into it yet.  Stupid C/C++ work keeps
getting in the way...

Gregm
From: Wade Humeniuk
Subject: Re: Learning CAPI
Date: 
Message-ID: <a8gtua$9q1$1@news3.cadvision.com>
There is a zip file for a small CAPI app I wrote called time-is-money.  The
source, delivery script and exe are in the zip file.  I hope it serve as an
example.

http://www.cadvision.com/humeniuw/time-is-money.zip

I also have a bigger CAPI app you can run on Windows.

Self installing exe at

http://www.cadvision.com/humeniuw/runnerslogtrial1.40.exe

A running log program.  If you want to see the source just drop me a email
and I will send you it.

When I learned CAPI I did it the hard way and just dived in a wrote the
runner's log.  It was a slow struggle at first, but I just persevered.  It
just takes some time to get used to CAPI.  Read the online CAPI User Guide,
from start to finish, and actually do all the examples.  I am sure doing it
pendatically like that will really help.  If you need specific help with a
problem just post a message with the specific problem.  I will try to help
the best I can.  You have to get your mind around layouts, panes and
interfaces.

Wade


"Asha Das" <·······@pd.jaring.my> wrote in message
·················@news6.jaring.my...
> Hello,
>
> I've been using Lispworks Personal Edition to study Common Lisp.  I like
it
> mostly because it's a reliable system that behaves the way it's supposed
> to - that is, it conforms to ANSI CL (as far as I can tell) - and its
> responses have been entirely predictable.  Recently, however, I feel as
> though I have surpassed some personal singularity for exasperation while
> evaluating Lispwork's CAPI.
>
> I've heard about the lack of documentation, but I thought that I could
> reconstruct what I needed from the reference manual, the CAPI examples,
Wade
> Humenick's package-browser, and the class browser.  This was not to be.
> From a few lines in an example file, one cannot reconstruct an MDI
interface
> or a complex docking layout  (I'm using Windows, btw).  From a coy method
> name, one cannot guess its function.  A class browser is great only when
you
> know what you're looking for.  I'm totally frustrated because Lispworks is
> so good, yet in just this one respect it is severely lacking.
From: Asha Das
Subject: Re: Learning CAPI
Date: 
Message-ID: <a8hamk$ise$1@news5.jaring.my>
(Nils, thanks for the link - I'm subscribed to lisp-hug, but I did not know
about the lww list.)

Greg, Wade:

Thanks for the advice.  Yes, I completely agree with you, CAPI is far, far
easier than MFC.  There are some interface elements, however, that I wish I
knew more about such as treeview, the MDI, how to implement drag-and-drop
OLE.  I think that, for the implementation of a decision support system, the
availability of such interface elements can reduce training costs and
adoption anxiety.  I'm probably going to have a break from Lispworks and
take a look at Common Graphics under Allegro for awhile.

Did you know that jawspdf.com is a global graphics software company (it
looks like they share the same offices as Xanalys).  I've often wondered if
their products were written in Lispworks + Capi.

Wade, I had a go at your runner's log when you first released it.  Are there
really people that go on four separate runs each day?......wow.....I'm still
trying to get my mind around that.


"Wade Humeniuk" <········@cadvision.com> wrote in message
·················@news3.cadvision.com...
> There is a zip file for a small CAPI app I wrote called time-is-money.
The
> source, delivery script and exe are in the zip file.  I hope it serve as
an
> example.
>
> http://www.cadvision.com/humeniuw/time-is-money.zip
>
> I also have a bigger CAPI app you can run on Windows.
>
> Self installing exe at
>
> http://www.cadvision.com/humeniuw/runnerslogtrial1.40.exe
>
> A running log program.  If you want to see the source just drop me a email
> and I will send you it.
>
> When I learned CAPI I did it the hard way and just dived in a wrote the
> runner's log.  It was a slow struggle at first, but I just persevered.  It
> just takes some time to get used to CAPI.  Read the online CAPI User
Guide,
> from start to finish, and actually do all the examples.  I am sure doing
it
> pendatically like that will really help.  If you need specific help with a
> problem just post a message with the specific problem.  I will try to help
> the best I can.  You have to get your mind around layouts, panes and
> interfaces.
>
> Wade
>
From: Wade Humeniuk
Subject: Re: Learning CAPI
Date: 
Message-ID: <a8im2b$q65$1@news3.cadvision.com>
"Asha Das" <·······@pd.jaring.my> wrote in message
·················@news5.jaring.my...
> (Nils, thanks for the link - I'm subscribed to lisp-hug, but I did not
know
> about the lww list.)
>
> Greg, Wade:
>
> Thanks for the advice.  Yes, I completely agree with you, CAPI is far, far
> easier than MFC.  There are some interface elements, however, that I wish
I
> knew more about such as treeview, the MDI, how to implement drag-and-drop
> OLE.  I think that, for the implementation of a decision support system,
the
> availability of such interface elements can reduce training costs and
> adoption anxiety.  I'm probably going to have a break from Lispworks and
> take a look at Common Graphics under Allegro for awhile.
>

Yes I do not know how to accomplish drag-and-drop in CAPI.  There does not
seem to be a provision for it.

> Wade, I had a go at your runner's log when you first released it.  Are
there
> really people that go on four separate runs each day?......wow.....I'm
still
> trying to get my mind around that.

I must admit it is too much, I do not know anyone that does that.  My wife
has never run more than once a day.  A few people use it to store
cross-training logs, such a weight training, swimming.  I was going to
create a triathalon log but my wife has not got around to doing those.

Wade
From: Nils Goesche
Subject: Re: Learning CAPI
Date: 
Message-ID: <87k7rogsbh.fsf@darkstar.cartan>
"Asha Das" <·······@pd.jaring.my> writes:

> If you've been using CAPI for Win32, how did you figure out
> what is what ?  (I know that the support call option is
> available, but I have more than a few questions).

Try the mailing lists:

http://www.xanalys.com/software_tools/community/index.html#user

Regards,
-- 
Nils Goesche
Ask not for whom the <CONTROL-G> tolls.

PGP key ID #xC66D6E6F