Microsoft invites grant proposals from academics wishing to make early
use of the shared source ("Rotor") implementations of the Common
Language Infrastructure (CLI) and C# programming language for teaching
or research, and from academics wishing to actively promote the growth
of a community of Rotor users. Around 25 awards are available, in the
region of $10,000 to $20,000 each, for the period June 2002 -
September 2003.
Information about the Rotor code and terms is available at:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/net/sscli/
Information about the Rotor grant programme is available at:
http://research.microsoft.com/programs/europe/rotor/
Please feel free to forward this notice to your colleagues. Thank you
for your attention.
Greg O'Shea <······@microsoft.com> wrote:
> Microsoft invites grant proposals from academics wishing to make early
> use of the shared source ("Rotor") implementations [...]
Academics, don't sell your programming freedom! http://www.fsfeurope.org/
Looking at http://shared-source.com/ I guess they just decided how much it
costs to give academics an incentive... quite cheap, really.
Please don't forward the message. Let Microsoft do their own direct mail in
the normal fashion... and pay for it themselves. They can afford it.
Followups set.
When CLI supports languages like Lisp and Dylan, I will be glad
to contribute and I am sure others on these lists will as well. Until such
time -- not to put too fine a point on it -- please don't insult us with
offers to do so-called "research" to legitimize the crappy, derivative,
backward-looking C# and its anti-competitive closed-world runtime.
If you would like to engage in a conversation about what it would take
to truly open up CLI and make it support such languages, I am sure you
would find a very willing audience here.
Thank *you* for your attention.
"Greg O'Shea" <······@microsoft.com> wrote in message
·································@posting.google.com...
> Microsoft invites grant proposals from academics wishing to make early
> use of the shared source ("Rotor") implementations of the Common
> Language Infrastructure (CLI) and C# programming language for teaching
> or research, and from academics wishing to actively promote the growth
> of a community of Rotor users. Around 25 awards are available, in the
> region of $10,000 to $20,000 each, for the period June 2002 -
> September 2003.
>
> Information about the Rotor code and terms is available at:
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/net/sscli/
>
> Information about the Rotor grant programme is available at:
> http://research.microsoft.com/programs/europe/rotor/
>
> Please feel free to forward this notice to your colleagues. Thank you
> for your attention.
From: Ken Forbus
Subject: Re: Microsoft Research: Announcing grants for shared source CLI and C# implementations
Date:
Message-ID: <a8e2dv$nd1$1@news.acns.nwu.edu>
They already support Scheme. The implementation was done at Northwestern.
Ken
Scott McKay <···@attbi.com> wrote in message
···························@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net...
> When CLI supports languages like Lisp and Dylan, I will be glad
> to contribute and I am sure others on these lists will as well. Until
such
> time -- not to put too fine a point on it -- please don't insult us with
> offers to do so-called "research" to legitimize the crappy, derivative,
> backward-looking C# and its anti-competitive closed-world runtime.
>
> If you would like to engage in a conversation about what it would take
> to truly open up CLI and make it support such languages, I am sure you
> would find a very willing audience here.
>
> Thank *you* for your attention.
>
> "Greg O'Shea" <······@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> ·································@posting.google.com...
> > Microsoft invites grant proposals from academics wishing to make early
> > use of the shared source ("Rotor") implementations of the Common
> > Language Infrastructure (CLI) and C# programming language for teaching
> > or research, and from academics wishing to actively promote the growth
> > of a community of Rotor users. Around 25 awards are available, in the
> > region of $10,000 to $20,000 each, for the period June 2002 -
> > September 2003.
> >
> > Information about the Rotor code and terms is available at:
> > http://msdn.microsoft.com/net/sscli/
> >
> > Information about the Rotor grant programme is available at:
> > http://research.microsoft.com/programs/europe/rotor/
> >
> > Please feel free to forward this notice to your colleagues. Thank you
> > for your attention.
>
>
From: Rahul Jain
Subject: Re: Microsoft Research: Announcing grants for shared source CLI and C# implementations
Date:
Message-ID: <87g02dcqi9.fsf@photino.sid.rice.edu>
"Ken Forbus" <······@NOSPAM.northwestern.edu> writes:
> They already support Scheme. The implementation was done at Northwestern.
So? How does that help Lisp or Dylan?
> Scott McKay <···@attbi.com> wrote in message
> ···························@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net...
> > When CLI supports languages like Lisp and Dylan, I will be glad
> > to contribute and I am sure others on these lists will as well. Until
> such
> > time -- not to put too fine a point on it -- please don't insult us with
> > offers to do so-called "research" to legitimize the crappy, derivative,
> > backward-looking C# and its anti-competitive closed-world runtime.
> >
> > If you would like to engage in a conversation about what it would take
> > to truly open up CLI and make it support such languages, I am sure you
> > would find a very willing audience here.
> >
> > Thank *you* for your attention.
I'd be surprised if he were actually reading either c.l.lisp or
c.l.dylan, since he probably would have chimed in when Duane commented
about Franz's evaluation of the usefulness of an "ACL.NET". :)
--
-> -/ - Rahul Jain - \- <-
-> -\ http://linux.rice.edu/~rahul -=- ············@techie.com /- <-
-> -/ "Structure is nothing if it is all you got. Skeletons spook \- <-
-> -\ people if [they] try to walk around on their own. I really /- <-
-> -/ wonder why XML does not." -- Erik Naggum, comp.lang.lisp \- <-
|--|--------|--------------|----|-------------|------|---------|-----|-|
(c)1996-2002, All rights reserved. Disclaimer available upon request.
Rahul Jain <·····@sid-1129.sid.rice.edu> wrote:
>"Ken Forbus" <······@NOSPAM.northwestern.edu> writes:
>
>> They already support Scheme. The implementation was done at Northwestern.
>
>So? How does that help Lisp or Dylan?
Lisp is a Scheme...
( Quickly ducking for cover from the inevitable tirade from the
inimitable No Gum :-) )
From: Kent M Pitman
Subject: Re: Microsoft Research: Announcing grants for shared source CLI and C# implementations
Date:
Message-ID: <sfwelhxnyj7.fsf@shell01.TheWorld.com>
[ replying to comp.lang.lisp only
http://world.std.com/~pitman/pfaq/cross-posting.html ]
"Ken Forbus" <······@NOSPAM.northwestern.edu> writes:
> Scott McKay <···@attbi.com> wrote in message
> ···························@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net...
> > When CLI supports languages like Lisp and Dylan, I will be glad
> > to contribute and I am sure others on these lists will as well. Until
> > such time -- not to put too fine a point on it -- please don't insult
> > us with offers to do so-called "research" to legitimize the crappy,
> > derivative, backward-looking C# and its anti-competitive closed-world
> > runtime.
>
> They already support Scheme. The implementation was done at Northwestern.
Aha. An exciting new context for a debate about whether Scheme is a Lisp.
(JUST KIDDING)
(sorta)
From: Jochen Schmidt
Subject: Re: Microsoft Research: Announcing grants for shared source CLI and C# implementations
Date:
Message-ID: <a8e4dg$5cf$1@rznews2.rrze.uni-erlangen.de>
Ken Forbus wrote:
> They already support Scheme. The implementation was done at Northwestern.
It seems that this Scheme implementation "only" runs within the CLR runtime
and is able to do calls to other CLR Languages but not to get used by
others.
ciao,
Jochen
--
http://www.dataheaven.de
"Scott McKay" <···@attbi.com> wrote:
>When CLI supports languages like Lisp and Dylan, I will be glad
>to contribute and I am sure others on these lists will as well.
Have you looked at the list of researchers at Microsoft ?
There are at least two Turing award winners.
Gary Starkweather ( laser printer)
Chuck Thacker, (engineered the Alto )
Butler Lampson ( bit-mapped fonts )
Gordon Bell (VAX architecture )
Jim Gray ( transaction processing and two-phase commit)
Rick Rashid ( Mach )
For a longer list of around 600 full time researchers, have a look at
http://research.microsoft.com/people/
I suspect that they do not really need your efforts.
From: Thomas Bushnell, BSG
Subject: Re: Microsoft Research: Announcing grants for shared source CLI and C# implementations
Date:
Message-ID: <87adslnrfz.fsf@becket.becket.net>
Adam Tissa <·······················@yahoo.com> writes:
> Have you looked at the list of researchers at Microsoft ?
> There are at least two Turing award winners.
Have any of these won significant awards *after* being hired by
Microsoft?
From: Rahul Jain
Subject: Re: Microsoft Research: Announcing grants for shared source CLI and C# implementations
Date:
Message-ID: <87bsd1ck1u.fsf@photino.sid.rice.edu>
Adam Tissa <·······················@yahoo.com> writes:
> Have you looked at the list of researchers at Microsoft ?
> There are at least two Turing award winners.
> I suspect that they do not really need your efforts.
Then they shouldn't be posting to a group looking for researchers when
they aren't interested in the most prominent researchers in that
community.
--
-> -/ - Rahul Jain - \- <-
-> -\ http://linux.rice.edu/~rahul -=- ············@techie.com /- <-
-> -/ "Structure is nothing if it is all you got. Skeletons spook \- <-
-> -\ people if [they] try to walk around on their own. I really /- <-
-> -/ wonder why XML does not." -- Erik Naggum, comp.lang.lisp \- <-
|--|--------|--------------|----|-------------|------|---------|-----|-|
(c)1996-2002, All rights reserved. Disclaimer available upon request.
From: David Golden
Subject: Re: Microsoft Research: Announcing grants for shared source CLI and C# implementations
Date:
Message-ID: <GNJq8.2622$04.8345@news.iol.ie>
Beware that if you even LOOK at "shared source" (MS)
or "community source" (same thing, but Sun) code,
then you can leave yourself (if you engage in development work),
and possibly any Open Source/Free Software
project you work on, open to legal attack from MS/Sun.
MS and Sun are _hoping_ lots and lots of people confuse
shared/community source code with OSI-definition
Open Source code.
The "shared source" availability of .NET (or Java) means,
for example, that to even work on clean-room implementations
of .NET (or Java), you'll need to _prove_ you haven't
seen the code (not a criminal suit, so burden of proof not
squarely on MS/Sun shoulders) - and even the _threat_
of a lawsuit may be enough to shut you down in some
jurisdictions.
i.e. "shared" or "community" source is WORSE than
no source at all from the Free Software/ Open Source community
perspective. It's taken MS about 5 years to figure this out...
On the whole, if you ever entertain the idea of working on
Free Software projects - stay AWAY from MS/Sun code
that's under strange "nearly-open" licenses.
MS are hoping to weasel their way into naive CompScis undergrad
brains, who may not be aware that by even looking at the code their
professor helpfully plonks in front of them, they could disqualify
themselves from ever working on certain open source projects...
There's already several years worth of CompScis with their brains
tainted with pseudo-open Java source code.
--
Don't eat yellow snow.
David Golden:
> Beware that if you even LOOK at "shared source" (MS)
> or "community source" (same thing, but Sun) code,
> then you can leave yourself (if you engage in development work),
> and possibly any Open Source/Free Software
> project you work on, open to legal attack from MS/Sun.
i have no idea nor care what MS shared source is about, but about sun's
community license: i think people should at least read the license documents
and associated discussion such as richard gabriel (ummm, i can just see CLF3
beginning to seep...:) & bill joy's "sun community license principles" before
thinking about looking at the source and worrying about legal attacks and
such. [http://www.sun.com/981208/scsl/principles.html] slashdot is the
source of much FUD (slashfud?) about this...
oz
--
Committees do harm merely by existing. -- freeman dyson