Hi.
what is the situation with Common Lisp on MacOS X ?
anything available yet ? anything about to become available ? any recommendations ?
thanks
rgds
BK
CLISP <http://clisp.cons.org/> already runs on OS X. The current
version of MCL <http://www.digitool.com/> works in the classic
environment, their next version is supposed to be a Carbon app. Franz
<http://www.franz.com/> is working on porting Allegro CL to OS X, but
they haven't announced anything yet.
OpenMCL <http://www.clozure.com/openmcl> (currently LinuxPPC only),
CMUCL <http://www.cons.org/cmucl/> (currently reviving their old
PowerPC backend), and SBCL <http://sbcl.sourceforge.net/> (a fork off
of the CMUCL main branch) might be options in the future.
Everybody who has used MCL claims that it's fantastic, and they're
also dirt cheap, so I think this one should be worth a try. I don't
know how well their current version already integrates with OS X,
though.
Edi.
·········@yahoo.co.uk (BK) writes:
> Hi.
>
> what is the situation with Common Lisp on MacOS X ?
>
> anything available yet ? anything about to become available ? any
> recommendations ?
>
> thanks
> rgds
> BK
···@agharta.de (Dr. Edmund Weitz) writes:
> Everybody who has used MCL claims that it's fantastic, and they're
> also dirt cheap, so I think this one should be worth a try. I don't
> know how well their current version already integrates with OS X,
> though.
the latest release, 4.3.1, seems to run o.k. in "Classic" mode (it
seems to frequently crash on startup if MCL is the program that triggers
Classic startup, but on second try, it starts o.k.).
--
(espen)
Espen Vestre <·····@*do-not-spam-me*.vestre.net> wrote in message news:<··············@wallace.ws.nextra.no>...
> ···@agharta.de (Dr. Edmund Weitz) writes:
>
> > Everybody who has used MCL claims that it's fantastic, and they're
> > also dirt cheap, so I think this one should be worth a try. I don't
> > know how well their current version already integrates with OS X,
> > though.
>
> the latest release, 4.3.1, seems to run o.k. in "Classic" mode (it
> seems to frequently crash on startup if MCL is the program that triggers
> Classic startup, but on second try, it starts o.k.).
Thanks, but I have got MCL. I am looking for something that is OSX native though.
rgds
BK
In article <··············@wallace.ws.nextra.no>, Espen Vestre
<·····@*do-not-spam-me*.vestre.net> wrote:
>the latest release, 4.3.1, seems to run o.k. in "Classic" mode (it
>seems to frequently crash on startup if MCL is the program that triggers
>Classic startup, but on second try, it starts o.k.).
Try starting Classic first (from System Preferences). Once Classic is
loaded, (i.e., the app "Classic Startup" has quit and the process
TruBlue Environment is running - check from a Terminal or Process
Viewer), then launch MCL.
Alternatively, you can set Classic to always launch at Startup/Login.
Personally, I've always been surprised that MCL is not more popular -
it's the most convenient development environment for any language I've
come across (with the possible exception of some Smalltalks - but that
doesn't count 'cause any Smalltalk is still no Common Lisp). Chalk it up
to the dominance of Windows. The real mystery is why it's not more
popular among Mac developers.
Personally, I can't wait for the OS X native (i.e., Carbonized) version
of MCL.
--
Raffael Cavallaro, Ph.D.
·······@mediaone.net
What do you mean by dirt cheap?
"Dr. Edmund Weitz" wrote:
> CLISP <http://clisp.cons.org/> already runs on OS X. The current
> version of MCL <http://www.digitool.com/> works in the classic
> environment, their next version is supposed to be a Carbon app. Franz
> <http://www.franz.com/> is working on porting Allegro CL to OS X, but
> they haven't announced anything yet.
>
> OpenMCL <http://www.clozure.com/openmcl> (currently LinuxPPC only),
> CMUCL <http://www.cons.org/cmucl/> (currently reviving their old
> PowerPC backend), and SBCL <http://sbcl.sourceforge.net/> (a fork off
> of the CMUCL main branch) might be options in the future.
>
> Everybody who has used MCL claims that it's fantastic, and they're
> also dirt cheap, so I think this one should be worth a try. I don't
> know how well their current version already integrates with OS X,
> though.
>
> Edi.
>
> ·········@yahoo.co.uk (BK) writes:
>
> > Hi.
> >
> > what is the situation with Common Lisp on MacOS X ?
> >
> > anything available yet ? anything about to become available ? any
> > recommendations ?
> >
> > thanks
> > rgds
> > BK
From: Vebjorn Ljosa
Subject: Re: Any recommendations for CL on OSX ?
Date:
Message-ID: <cy3669a3z0f.fsf@ljosa.com>
* Steve Long <·········@isomedia.com>
| What do you mean by dirt cheap?
It sells for $85 to students and $345 to others. See
<URL:http://www.digitool.com/purchase.html>. That's even cheaper than
Lispworks.
--
Vebjorn Ljosa
Ooops, I'm not a native speaker, so I hope I didn't choose the wrong
words. I wanted to say that - given the fact that MCL is a commercial
CL implementation with commercial support and a very good GUI
integration - it is really inexpensive and definitely worth every
penny. I though "dirt cheap" meant somethings like this in colloquial
speech.
My apologies if this led to misunderstandings.
Edi.
Steve Long <·········@isomedia.com> writes:
> What do you mean by dirt cheap?
>
> "Dr. Edmund Weitz" wrote:
>
> > CLISP <http://clisp.cons.org/> already runs on OS X. The current
> > version of MCL <http://www.digitool.com/> works in the classic
> > environment, their next version is supposed to be a Carbon app. Franz
> > <http://www.franz.com/> is working on porting Allegro CL to OS X, but
> > they haven't announced anything yet.
> >
> > OpenMCL <http://www.clozure.com/openmcl> (currently LinuxPPC only),
> > CMUCL <http://www.cons.org/cmucl/> (currently reviving their old
> > PowerPC backend), and SBCL <http://sbcl.sourceforge.net/> (a fork off
> > of the CMUCL main branch) might be options in the future.
> >
> > Everybody who has used MCL claims that it's fantastic, and they're
> > also dirt cheap, so I think this one should be worth a try. I don't
> > know how well their current version already integrates with OS X,
> > though.
> >
> > Edi.
> >
> > ·········@yahoo.co.uk (BK) writes:
> >
> > > Hi.
> > >
> > > what is the situation with Common Lisp on MacOS X ?
> > >
> > > anything available yet ? anything about to become available ? any
> > > recommendations ?
> > >
> > > thanks
> > > rgds
> > > BK
···@agharta.de (Dr. Edmund Weitz) writes:
> Ooops, I'm not a native speaker, so I hope I didn't choose the wrong
> words. I wanted to say that - given the fact that MCL is a commercial
> CL implementation with commercial support and a very good GUI
> integration - it is really inexpensive and definitely worth every
> penny. I though "dirt cheap" meant somethings like this in colloquial
> speech.
>
> My apologies if this led to misunderstandings.
>
> Edi.
Nope, you said it exactly how a native speaker from North America
would. I think Steve Long meant "I am unable to use google to find
the pricing myself; how much does it cost?" :)
> Steve Long <·········@isomedia.com> writes:
>
> > What do you mean by dirt cheap?
> >
> > "Dr. Edmund Weitz" wrote:
> >
> > > CLISP <http://clisp.cons.org/> already runs on OS X. The current
> > > version of MCL <http://www.digitool.com/> works in the classic
> > > environment, their next version is supposed to be a Carbon app. Franz
> > > <http://www.franz.com/> is working on porting Allegro CL to OS X, but
> > > they haven't announced anything yet.
> > >
> > > OpenMCL <http://www.clozure.com/openmcl> (currently LinuxPPC only),
> > > CMUCL <http://www.cons.org/cmucl/> (currently reviving their old
> > > PowerPC backend), and SBCL <http://sbcl.sourceforge.net/> (a fork off
> > > of the CMUCL main branch) might be options in the future.
> > >
> > > Everybody who has used MCL claims that it's fantastic, and they're
> > > also dirt cheap, so I think this one should be worth a try. I don't
> > > know how well their current version already integrates with OS X,
> > > though.
> > >
> > > Edi.
> > >
> > > ·········@yahoo.co.uk (BK) writes:
> > >
> > > > Hi.
> > > >
> > > > what is the situation with Common Lisp on MacOS X ?
> > > >
> > > > anything available yet ? anything about to become available ? any
> > > > recommendations ?
> > > >
> > > > thanks
> > > > rgds
> > > > BK
--
/|_ .-----------------------.
,' .\ / | No to Imperialist war |
,--' _,' | Wage class war! |
/ / `-----------------------'
( -. |
| ) |
(`-. '--.)
`. )----'
> Nope, you said it exactly how a native speaker from North America
> would. I think Steve Long meant "I am unable to use google to find
> the pricing myself; how much does it cost?" :)
>
Wrong. I was curious if he was using the expression relative to the
student/educational price which is indeed "dirt cheap" There are a variety of
pricing schemes associated with MCL ranging from inexpensive to exorbitant. If
he paid $1000+ for it, then that might have indicate that it is competitive
with Allegro's version.
sl
On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Steve Long wrote:
> What do you mean by dirt cheap?
$250 for an individual license. $90 for a student. Still too expensive
for me, a poo' college student. Not cheap enough, hell, that's more than
a month's worth of food for me. But all the same, MCL looks like a cool
product, just one out of my reach.
Regards,
Aaron
Aaron Reichow :: UMD ACM Pres :: http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/
"the end of the human race will be that it will eventually
die of civilization. " :: r. w. emerson
>
> "Dr. Edmund Weitz" wrote:
>
> > CLISP <http://clisp.cons.org/> already runs on OS X. The current
> > version of MCL <http://www.digitool.com/> works in the classic
> > environment, their next version is supposed to be a Carbon app. Franz
> > <http://www.franz.com/> is working on porting Allegro CL to OS X, but
> > they haven't announced anything yet.
> >
> > OpenMCL <http://www.clozure.com/openmcl> (currently LinuxPPC only),
> > CMUCL <http://www.cons.org/cmucl/> (currently reviving their old
> > PowerPC backend), and SBCL <http://sbcl.sourceforge.net/> (a fork off
> > of the CMUCL main branch) might be options in the future.
> >
> > Everybody who has used MCL claims that it's fantastic, and they're
> > also dirt cheap, so I think this one should be worth a try. I don't
> > know how well their current version already integrates with OS X,
> > though.
> >
> > Edi.
> >
> > ·········@yahoo.co.uk (BK) writes:
> >
> > > Hi.
> > >
> > > what is the situation with Common Lisp on MacOS X ?
> > >
> > > anything available yet ? anything about to become available ? any
> > > recommendations ?
> > >
> > > thanks
> > > rgds
> > > BK
>
>
Aaron J Reichow <········@d.umn.edu> wrote in message news:<········································@ub.d.umn.edu>...
> $250 for an individual license. $90 for a student. Still too expensive
> for me, a poo' college student. Not cheap enough, hell, that's more than
> a month's worth of food for me. But all the same, MCL looks like a cool
> product, just one out of my reach.
Umm... Have you ever used MCL before?
Or... have you ever purchased ACL/Lispworks before?
ACL doesn't offer educational price, and I remember the price was
almost $900. And Lispworks was also expensive than MCL.
If you try demo version (fully functional, you can get one month
license from digitool) of MCL, you will never ever say that the $90 is
still too expensive. I tried ACL/Lispworks/CLisp/MCL, and always MCL
was best for me (and most professional lisper agree that the MCL is
very good).
If you are really poor colleage student, try CLisp.
I installed OS X version two days ago, it is functional.
On 21 Oct 2001, sungwoo wrote:
> Aaron J Reichow <········@d.umn.edu> wrote in message news:<········································@ub.d.umn.edu>...
> > $250 for an individual license. $90 for a student. Still too expensive
> > for me, a poo' college student. Not cheap enough, hell, that's more than
> > a month's worth of food for me. But all the same, MCL looks like a cool
> > product, just one out of my reach.
>
> Umm... Have you ever used MCL before?
> Or... have you ever purchased ACL/Lispworks before?
> ACL doesn't offer educational price, and I remember the price was
> almost $900. And Lispworks was also expensive than MCL.
>
> If you try demo version (fully functional, you can get one month
> license from digitool) of MCL, you will never ever say that the $90 is
> still too expensive. I tried ACL/Lispworks/CLisp/MCL, and always MCL
> was best for me (and most professional lisper agree that the MCL is
> very good).
I've played around with MCL, and it was quite good. Looked like a very
polished environment. And yes, $90 is *dirt* cheap compared to the other
options. But everything is relative- and it is still beyond my reach.
Didn't mean to make it sound like it's expensive in some absolute (are
there such things?) way.
> If you are really poor colleage student, try CLisp.
> I installed OS X version two days ago, it is functional.
And that's exactly what I do. :)
Regards,
Aaron
Aaron Reichow :: UMD ACM Pres :: http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/
"A weed is just a plant whose virtures have not
yet been discovered." :: r. w. emerson
Aaron J Reichow <········@d.umn.edu> writes:
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Steve Long wrote:
>
> > What do you mean by dirt cheap?
>
> $250 for an individual license. $90 for a student. Still too expensive
> for me, a poo' college student. Not cheap enough, hell, that's more than
> a month's worth of food for me. But all the same, MCL looks like a cool
> product, just one out of my reach.
$90 for a student is too expensive?
Comparing it to food seems to me nonsensical, since it's not something
you're going to eat. If someone offered you a car for that amount of
money, you'd call it cheap but that's not a materially good comparison
either since it's not going to drive you around town.
Education is generally quite expensive--moreso even than food. It
involves not only its own cost but the extra cost of not having a job
at the same time. No doubt it's a sacrifice. But that doesn't mean
it's fair to say that anyone who tries to charge you money of any kind
is engaging in highway robbery. Comparing the item to another item
from which you could learn makes more sense. For a student, a piece
of software like that seems comparable to a schoolbook, and many good
textbooks cost $50-$100. You might think that high, but I'd bet if
you look historically at the issue, you'll find that the cost of
textbooks has not accelerated at the rate that tuition has. Further,
the cost of software over the same interval has probably gone down,
not up. So qualitatively, you'd have to say it was cheap compared to
what it could do...
So you might not have or be willing to cough up the money. Everyone's
got different values and different financial limits. But that doesn't
mean it's not cheap...
On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 06:33:03 GMT, Kent M Pitman <······@world.std.com>
wrote:
> Aaron J Reichow <········@d.umn.edu> writes:
[...]
> > $250 for an individual license. $90 for a student. Still too expensive
> > for me, a poo' college student. Not cheap enough, hell, that's more than
[...]
> $90 for a student is too expensive?
90$ is probably cheap for Italian students. Judging from the appalling
amount of time they spend on cell phone conversations and instant messages,
they have a lot of money in their pockets. A whole lot of Italian students
of all ages use cell phones.
Paolo
--
EncyCMUCLopedia * Extensive collection of CMU Common Lisp documentation
http://web.mclink.it/amoroso/ency/README
[http://cvs2.cons.org:8000/cmucl/doc/EncyCMUCLopedia/]
Paolo Amoroso <·······@mclink.it> writes:
> On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 06:33:03 GMT, Kent M Pitman <······@world.std.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Aaron J Reichow <········@d.umn.edu> writes:
> [...]
> > > $250 for an individual license. $90 for a student. Still too expensive
> > > for me, a poo' college student. Not cheap enough, hell, that's more than
> [...]
> > $90 for a student is too expensive?
>
> 90$ is probably cheap for Italian students. Judging from the appalling
> amount of time they spend on cell phone conversations and instant messages,
> they have a lot of money in their pockets. A whole lot of Italian students
> of all ages use cell phones.
Don't Italian students get stipends to live off of?
To Kent's point: comparison to food is perfectly valid. I make the
same comparison when buying textbooks. "Would I rather scrape along
with borrowing other people's books, and maybe using the reserve copy
in the library, if there is one, but have money for
groceries/phone-bill/etc; or would I rather have my own copy of this
textbook?" So, for this: "Would I rather eat polenta and sardines
every night, but have MCL; or would I rather scrape by with CLISP, but
have money for groceries?"
Of course, for those who get their financial aid checks on time
(before their bills, not after), they tend to have $200 to blow on
whatever every semester, rather than have that eaten up by late
fees...
--
/|_ .-----------------------.
,' .\ / | No to Imperialist war |
,--' _,' | Wage class war! |
/ / `-----------------------'
( -. |
| ) |
(`-. '--.)
`. )----'
···@famine.OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Thomas F. Burdick) wrote in message news:<···············@famine.OCF.Berkeley.EDU>...
> Paolo Amoroso <·······@mclink.it> writes:
>
> > On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 06:33:03 GMT, Kent M Pitman <······@world.std.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Aaron J Reichow <········@d.umn.edu> writes:
> [...]
> > > > $250 for an individual license. $90 for a student. Still too expensive
> > > > for me, a poo' college student. Not cheap enough, hell, that's more than
> [...]
> > > $90 for a student is too expensive?
> >
> > 90$ is probably cheap for Italian students. Judging from the appalling
> > amount of time they spend on cell phone conversations and instant messages,
> > they have a lot of money in their pockets. A whole lot of Italian students
> > of all ages use cell phones.
>
> Don't Italian students get stipends to live off of?
>
> To Kent's point: comparison to food is perfectly valid. I make the
> same comparison when buying textbooks. "Would I rather scrape along
> with borrowing other people's books, and maybe using the reserve copy
> in the library, if there is one, but have money for
> groceries/phone-bill/etc; or would I rather have my own copy of this
> textbook?" So, for this: "Would I rather eat polenta and sardines
> every night, but have MCL; or would I rather scrape by with CLISP, but
> have money for groceries?"
>
> Of course, for those who get their financial aid checks on time
> (before their bills, not after), they tend to have $200 to blow on
> whatever every semester, rather than have that eaten up by late
> fees...
When I was a student I did not get any financial aid from anywhere,
not even from my parents. But I would rather eat bananas everyday and
save up some money for a second hand Microvax 2K with VAX Common Lisp
than using a PC with xlisp or whatever freeware was available then. A
suitable Mac - even second hand - back then was still more than the
old MV2K I picked up from the junk yard, but 90$ for MCL would have
been a very good reason to live on sardines for a while, I can promise
you that.
rgds
BK
Even $250 is worth it for a student if you are going to do some projects
over the next few years that don't absolutely require implementation in C++,
Java, or (yech) VB. I'm going to buy a copy just to keep my hand in the Lisp
programming arena.
sl
Aaron J Reichow wrote:
> $250 for an individual license. $90 for a student. Still too expensive
> for me, a poo' college student. Not cheap enough, hell, that's more than
> a month's worth of food for me. But all the same, MCL looks like a cool
> product, just one out of my reach.
In article <···························@posting.google.com>, BK wrote:
> Hi.
>
> what is the situation with Common Lisp on MacOS X ?
>
> anything available yet ? anything about to become available ? any recommendations ?
>
> thanks
> rgds
> BK
Allegro CL 6.1, being released this month, will include support
for MacOS X.
--
Kevin Rosenberg, M.D.
·····@rosenberg.net