From: Lars von dem Ast
Subject: Newbie interested in Web and databases
Date: 
Message-ID: <tvgrkcg8klmu8c@corp.supernews.com>
I've read several of Paul Graham's essays, and I've just finished reading 
Ken Pitman's slashdot.org interview. Can anyone direct me to a 
comprehensive listing of Lisp-based Web tools? How about database 
connectivity with Lisp?

Lb

From: Vebjorn Ljosa
Subject: Re: Newbie interested in Web and databases
Date: 
Message-ID: <cy31yiv2zav.fsf@ljosa.com>
* Lars von dem Ast <········@mtelco.net>
| I've read several of Paul Graham's essays, and I've just finished reading 
| Ken Pitman's slashdot.org interview. Can anyone direct me to a 
| comprehensive listing of Lisp-based Web tools? How about database 
| connectivity with Lisp?

<URL:http://ww.telent.net/cliki/Web> lists some open-source web tools,
and <URL:http://ww.telent.net/cliki/Database> lists some open-source
database interfaces.

-- 
Vebjorn Ljosa
From: Dennis Dunn
Subject: Re: Newbie interested in Web and databases
Date: 
Message-ID: <am_J7.17297$q36.1357768@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>
Hi,

Check out http://www.alu.org, the Association of Lisp Users. It is a great
resource for learing about Lisp.

--dennis


"Lars von dem Ast" <········@mtelco.net> wrote in message
···················@corp.supernews.com...
> I've read several of Paul Graham's essays, and I've just finished reading
> Ken Pitman's slashdot.org interview. Can anyone direct me to a
> comprehensive listing of Lisp-based Web tools? How about database
> connectivity with Lisp?
>
> Lb
From: Lars von dem Ast
Subject: Re: Newbie interested in Web and databases
Date: 
Message-ID: <tvgthkecmilv6c@corp.supernews.com>
Dennis Dunn wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Check out http://www.alu.org, the Association of Lisp Users. It is a great
> resource for learing about Lisp.
> 
> --dennis
> 
> 
> "Lars von dem Ast" <········@mtelco.net> wrote in message
> ···················@corp.supernews.com...
>> I've read several of Paul Graham's essays, and I've just finished reading
>> Ken Pitman's slashdot.org interview. Can anyone direct me to a
>> comprehensive listing of Lisp-based Web tools? How about database
>> connectivity with Lisp?
>>
>> Lb

Already looked and there doesn't seem to be much other than CL-HTTP (will 
investigate further, although it was last updated in 1999), but no database 
interfaces. I would like to talk to Postgres, or have some other mass data 
storage capability.

As a newbie, what sort of gainful employment opportunities exist with Lisp? 
(I realize this is awfully gauche and mercenary of me, but my wife always 
makes me ask.) I've read Paul Graham's essays, etc. and will make the 
plunge...if there's a drop or two in the pool....

Lb
From: Kent M Pitman
Subject: Re: Newbie interested in Web and databases
Date: 
Message-ID: <sfw4rnraxyo.fsf@shell01.TheWorld.com>
"Dennis Dunn" <········@bellsouth.net> writes:

> "Lars von dem Ast" <········@mtelco.net> wrote in message
> ···················@corp.supernews.com...
> > I've read several of Paul Graham's essays, and I've just finished reading
> > Ken Pitman's slashdot.org interview. Can anyone direct me to a
> > comprehensive listing of Lisp-based Web tools? How about database
> > connectivity with Lisp?
>
> Check out http://www.alu.org, the Association of Lisp Users. It is a great
> resource for learing about Lisp.

I don't know that alu.org is going to have it all consolidated.
There's some info at http://www.lisp.org/table/tools.htm but it doesn't
look up to date.

For web stuff, I think your primary choices are:

 * cl-http (probably mentioned at the alu web site)
 * allegroserve (from franz)
 * mod_lisp (not sure where, but check deja.com for back copies 
   newsgroup posts about it; should be easy to search for)

There may be others as well.  For example, my company HyperMeta.com
has a web server but we don't publish it yet.  If the above aren't enough
for you and you need something else, drop me a line by email explaining
your needs and maybe I can help.

For db stuff, there are several things on the alu pages.  Plus
I'm sure both Xanalys LispWorks and Franz Allegro have
commercial db interfaces.  I've also heard of MaiSQL, though haven't
used it so can't speak about it from any first-hand knowledge. You can
presumably search for again easily in old newsgroup poses at deja.com.
From: Thomas F. Burdick
Subject: Re: Newbie interested in Web and databases
Date: 
Message-ID: <xcv7ksmqvx9.fsf@conquest.OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
Kent M Pitman <······@world.std.com> writes:

> "Dennis Dunn" <········@bellsouth.net> writes:
> 
> > "Lars von dem Ast" <········@mtelco.net> wrote in message
> > ···················@corp.supernews.com...
> > > I've read several of Paul Graham's essays, and I've just finished reading
> > > Ken Pitman's slashdot.org interview. Can anyone direct me to a
> > > comprehensive listing of Lisp-based Web tools? How about database
> > > connectivity with Lisp?
> >
> > Check out http://www.alu.org, the Association of Lisp Users. It is a great
> > resource for learing about Lisp.
> 
> I don't know that alu.org is going to have it all consolidated.
> There's some info at http://www.lisp.org/table/tools.htm but it doesn't
> look up to date.
> 
> For web stuff, I think your primary choices are:
> 
>  * cl-http (probably mentioned at the alu web site)
>  * allegroserve (from franz)
>  * mod_lisp (not sure where, but check deja.com for back copies 
>    newsgroup posts about it; should be easy to search for)

Don't forget:

   * Araneida <http://araneida.telent.net/docs/index.html> which runs
     on CMUCL using the event loop architecture instead of threading.
     It's something appropriate to put behind Apache/mod_lisp.

-- 
           /|_     .-----------------------.                        
         ,'  .\  / | No to Imperialist war |                        
     ,--'    _,'   | Wage class war!       |                        
    /       /      `-----------------------'                        
   (   -.  |                               
   |     ) |                               
  (`-.  '--.)                              
   `. )----'                               
From: Daniel Barlow
Subject: Re: Newbie interested in Web and databases
Date: 
Message-ID: <87vgg62rfr.fsf@noetbook.telent.net>
···@conquest.OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Thomas F. Burdick) writes:

>    * Araneida <http://araneida.telent.net/docs/index.html> which runs
>      on CMUCL using the event loop architecture instead of threading.
>      It's something appropriate to put behind Apache/mod_lisp.
                                                       ^^^^^^^^
That should be Apache/mod_proxy - it is actually a web server all on
its own, insofar as it nominally speaks HTTP, but it's not been tested
against a wide variety of browsers, so the proxy behaviour of Apache
is a win in almost any circumstance it's good for.


-dan

-- 

  http://ww.telent.net/cliki/ - Link farm for free CL-on-Unix resources 
From: Marc Battyani
Subject: Re: Newbie interested in Web and databases
Date: 
Message-ID: <271FD80AF20BEA21.F45D53BF55251E7A.9CC95A6ED823F26E@lp.airnews.net>
"Kent M Pitman" <······@world.std.com> wrote

> I don't know that alu.org is going to have it all consolidated.
> There's some info at http://www.lisp.org/table/tools.htm but it doesn't
> look up to date.

I don't know if it is actively maintained. I e-mailed to the maintainers
several weeks ago but did not receive any reply so far.
CLiki is much more up to date: http://ww.telent.net/cliki/Web

> For web stuff, I think your primary choices are:
>
>  * cl-http (probably mentioned at the alu web site)
>  * allegroserve (from franz)
>  * mod_lisp (not sure where, but check deja.com for back copies
>    newsgroup posts about it; should be easy to search for)

mod_lisp is here: www.fractalconcept.com/asp/html/mod_lisp.html
It's an apache module to write web applications. It can be used for
commercial applications (FreeBSD like license)

BTW I have added some contributions to the mod_lisp site: A packaging of
mod_lisp as a FreeBSD port, from Walter Pelissero and a Linux Debian binary
from Johan Ur Riise.

Other contributions are always welcomed. Lisp examples etc.

Marc
From: Kent M Pitman
Subject: Re: Newbie interested in Web and databases
Date: 
Message-ID: <sfwwv0mcujy.fsf@shell01.TheWorld.com>
"Marc Battyani" <·············@fractalconcept.com> writes:

> "Kent M Pitman" <······@world.std.com> wrote
> 
> > I don't know that alu.org is going to have it all consolidated.
> > There's some info at http://www.lisp.org/table/tools.htm but it doesn't
> > look up to date.
> 
> I don't know if it is actively maintained. I e-mailed to the maintainers
> several weeks ago but did not receive any reply so far.

Well, for example, I have a password but I don't think I got the email
you refer to.  Where did you send it?

> CLiki is much more up to date: http://ww.telent.net/cliki/Web

That's good, at least.

Hey, while I've got you on the line, can you say what the difference is 
between mod_lisp and a simple proxypass?  Does mod_lisp's lisp programming
interface get control at some level other than an http request?   I've not
had time to pull it down and check it out.
From: Marc Battyani
Subject: Re: Newbie interested in Web and databases
Date: 
Message-ID: <06EFC40635FE6DC1.6E8DBB42D84427E5.DD8710B15465A242@lp.airnews.net>
"Kent M Pitman" <······@world.std.com> wrote
> "Marc Battyani" <·············@fractalconcept.com> writes:
>
> > "Kent M Pitman" <······@world.std.com> wrote
> >
> > > I don't know that alu.org is going to have it all consolidated.
> > > There's some info at http://www.lisp.org/table/tools.htm but it
doesn't
> > > look up to date.
> >
> > I don't know if it is actively maintained. I e-mailed to the maintainers
> > several weeks ago but did not receive any reply so far.
>
> Well, for example, I have a password but I don't think I got the email
> you refer to.  Where did you send it?

I sent one to the application editor (format nil ···@~a" "mft"
"mindspring.com") and one to the tools editor (format nil "Bruce Tobin :
··@~a" "btobin" "columbus.rr.com"). It was the August 27.

> Hey, while I've got you on the line, can you say what the difference is
> between mod_lisp and a simple proxypass?  Does mod_lisp's lisp programming
> interface get control at some level other than an http request?   I've not
> had time to pull it down and check it out.

mod_lisp is just an Apache connector for lisp. It opens a permanent socket
to one or more Lisp processes to send the HTTP requests with a very simple
an Lisp friendly protocol. This permanent connection makes it very fast. You
get all the internal Apache variables like the SSL session ID for instance
along with the posted data (if any). The protocol is easily extensible so
that the Lisp process can also send directives to Apache. As an example I
added the possibility to the lisp process to log errors in the Apache log.
To sum up it's a fast, Lisp friendly, tightly integrated proxy. It is not an
application framework, you have to provide the HTML generation macros etc.

A big advantage of using Apache + mod_lisp is that it's a low profile
solution. Every corporate web site administrator knows Apache so yet another
module does not scare them. I found it's much easier to sell Lisp web
applications with Apache + mod_lisp than when I tried with CL-HTTP for
instance.
I released it with a FreeBSD like license so everybody can use it for
commercial work.

At that moment, I'm writing web services with mod_lisp. And as you can
easily imagine, the Java competition has some trouble to keep up for
performance, functionalities and development time...(And I don't even speak
of .Net!)

The next release of mod_lisp will include a load balancing feature.

Marc
From: Thomas F. Burdick
Subject: Re: Newbie interested in Web and databases
Date: 
Message-ID: <xcvy9l2pglj.fsf@conquest.OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
Lars von dem Ast <········@mtelco.net> writes:

> I've read several of Paul Graham's essays, and I've just finished reading 
> Ken Pitman's slashdot.org interview. Can anyone direct me to a 
> comprehensive listing of Lisp-based Web tools? How about database 
> connectivity with Lisp?

In addition to the web links posted, you might be interested in the
(unfortunately) extremely low-volume lispweb mailing list
<http://www.red-bean.com/lispweb/>

-- 
           /|_     .-----------------------.                        
         ,'  .\  / | No to Imperialist war |                        
     ,--'    _,'   | Wage class war!       |                        
    /       /      `-----------------------'                        
   (   -.  |                               
   |     ) |                               
  (`-.  '--.)                              
   `. )----'                               
From: Lorance Stinson
Subject: Re: Newbie interested in Web and databases
Date: 
Message-ID: <3BFA9D67.6E4BA8C9@worldpbx.com>
Lars von dem Ast wrote:
<SNIP>
> How about database connectivity with Lisp?
There is also a Lisp interface to PostgreSQL at
http://purl.org/net/emarsden/home/downloads/
It is written completely in Lisp and works in many different Lisp
environments. I have used it with CMUCL 18c and Clisp 2.27 on Linux
with PostgreSQL 7.0.3 with success.

-- 
Lorance Stinson <·······@worldpbx.com> http://www.worldpbx.com/
Codito, Ergo Sum (I Code, therefore I am)
From: ·······@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: Newbie interested in Web and databases
Date: 
Message-ID: <20011121014043.A27550@emu>
On Sun, Nov 18, 2001 at 08:25:50PM -0600, Lars von dem Ast wrote:
> I've read several of Paul Graham's essays, and I've just finished reading 
> Ken Pitman's slashdot.org interview. Can anyone direct me to a 
> comprehensive listing of Lisp-based Web tools? How about database 
> connectivity with Lisp?
> 
> Lb

http://ww.telent.net/cliki/index is a great place to start.

Personally I have used IMHO and UncommonSQL (see CLiki or
http://alpha.onshored.com) with great success for writing web apps.

IMHO provides a nice CLOS-based object hierarchy for generating web
pages, and interfaces to Apache via mod_webapp (or mod_lisp?), and
UncommonSQL provides CLOS object persistance in databases.

-- 
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;; Matthew Danish                         email: ·······@andrew.cmu.edu ;;
;; OpenPGP public key available from:        'finger ···@db.debian.org' ;;
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