Hello!
As you can see from the subject, I am looking for the right LISP book
to buy. I have looked at http://www.lisp.org, but they have such a long
list of books that I can't seem to decide which one to pick. I also
looked at previous posts to this newsgroup, but again I got a list of
too many books. I know many people have recommended "On Lisp" by Paul
Graham, but as you know, it is out of print and I don't want to spend
$200 to buy it on ebay.com (IF there would be one for sale). I have also
heard "The ANSI Common LISP" by Graham and "Paradigms of Artificial
Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp" by Norvig are
good. I cannot afford to buy more than one at a time and I cannot decide
which one to buy. I will probably buy one of the above mentioned books
by Graham or Norvig, but other recommendations are welcome.
My LISP knowledge is still on the beginner's level, but I believe (and
hope) I do know the basics. I have already read "Common LISP: A Gentle
Introduction to Symbolic Computation" by David S. Touretzky and am pretty
comfortable with the material. So I guess I'm looking for a book that
will teach me some more advanced LISP techniques, as well as algorithms
for common tasks (I am still quite new to programming). Which book would
you recommend?
And another somewhat realated question, which I should probably ask in
comp.ai, but here it goes:
I would also like to explore the basic AI, especially in the "gaming
area", which includes game bots (for MUDs for example), computer oppnonets
to popular two-player (or multiplayer) games, generating and solving
mazes, and so on. Maybe one of you can recommend such a book, preferably
with LISP/Scheme as the example language?
Thank you in advance,
rk
--
Richard Krushelnitskiy "A mathematician is a blind man in a dark
·········@gmx.net room looking for a black cat which isn't
http://rkrush.cjb.net there." -- Charles Darwin
From: Bulent Murtezaoglu
Subject: Re: Which book? (Yes, I did look at lisp.org)
Date:
Message-ID: <87hey5hyfi.fsf@nkapi.internal>
RK> [...] I
RK> know many people have recommended "On Lisp" by Paul Graham,
RK> but as you know, it is out of print and I don't want to spend
RK> $200 to buy it on ebay.com (IF there would be one for sale).
That book is the best introduction to writing _macros_ in Lisp. It is
a fun and educational read, but not really for the beginner.
RK> I
RK> have also heard "The ANSI Common LISP" by Graham and
RK> "Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case
RK> Studies in Common Lisp" by Norvig are good.
These are in different classes. Graham's book is mostly an intro, with
several short pieces of code. It is a good book to read, but you can
probably get the information elsewhere. Norvig's book contains several
long and interesting programs and exposes their evolution. That would be
my pick from among the two.
RK> ... So I guess I'm looking for a book that will teach me
RK> some more advanced LISP techniques, as well as algorithms for
RK> common tasks (I am still quite new to programming). Which book
RK> would you recommend? [...]
If this will be an intensive self-study, then get an algorithms textbook
and Abelson & Sussman's Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs.
The text and the video lectures for the latter are also available
http://sicp.arsdigita.org/text/sicp/
The original videos of Abelson and Sussman lecturing are also
available from: (2/3rds of the way labeled 1986 Lectures...)
http://64.64.103.140/index.html
before you shell out for SICP, read the amazon.com reviews to see
which group you identify with (some love some hate etc.).
hope this helps,
BM
Bulent Murtezaoglu <··@acm.org> wrote:
> RK> [...] I
> RK> know many people have recommended "On Lisp" by Paul Graham,
> RK> but as you know, it is out of print and I don't want to spend
> RK> $200 to buy it on ebay.com (IF there would be one for sale).
> That book is the best introduction to writing _macros_ in Lisp. It is
> a fun and educational read, but not really for the beginner.
In that case it is not for me, besides I doubt I will find a copy of it.
> RK> I
> RK> have also heard "The ANSI Common LISP" by Graham and
> RK> "Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case
> RK> Studies in Common Lisp" by Norvig are good.
> These are in different classes. Graham's book is mostly an intro, with
> several short pieces of code. It is a good book to read, but you can
> probably get the information elsewhere. Norvig's book contains several
> long and interesting programs and exposes their evolution. That would be
> my pick from among the two.
So far you're third person to recommend that book over Graham's one, so I
guess I will buy it if I don't find anything more suitable.
> RK> ... So I guess I'm looking for a book that will teach me
> RK> some more advanced LISP techniques, as well as algorithms for
> RK> common tasks (I am still quite new to programming). Which book
> RK> would you recommend? [...]
> If this will be an intensive self-study, then get an algorithms textbook
> and Abelson & Sussman's Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs.
> The text and the video lectures for the latter are also available
I tried to read it online, but I guess it is a bit over my head. I could
not get past the first section. Perhaps I need to try harder...
> hope this helps,
It does, thank you :)
--
Richard Krushelnitskiy "A mathematician is a blind man in a dark
·········@gmx.net room looking for a black cat which isn't
http://rkrush.cjb.net there." -- Charles Darwin
Richard Krush wrote:
> As you can see from the subject, I am looking for the right LISP book
> to buy. I have looked at http://www.lisp.org, but they have such a long
> list of books that I can't seem to decide which one to pick.
[SNIP: considering "On Lisp", "ANSI Common Lisp", and PAIP,
having already read Touretzky.]
If you already know the basics, you will probably learn
much more from PAIP than from "ANSI Common Lisp". If you
are still a beginner, you will certainly learn much less
from "On Lisp" than from either of the others. :-)
Get PAIP. It's a marvellous book.
...
> So I guess I'm looking for a book that
> will teach me some more advanced LISP techniques, as well as algorithms
> for common tasks (I am still quite new to programming). Which book would
> you recommend?
I'm not sure what tasks you regard as common. The best "data
structures and algorithms" book I know is "An introduction
to algorithms" by Cormen, Rivest and Leiserson, which is
just as marvellous as PAIP, but I suspect you may not
be thinking of the kind of algorithms as they cover. If
you want a book that covers CL *and* algorithms, PAIP is
as good a candidate as I know, though it's really not an
algorithms book at all.
I'm afraid I have no suggestions for your AI book request.
I have Russell & Norvig, "Artificial intelligence: a modern
approach"; I don't think it's what you're looking for.
(It sounds like you want something more tightly focused
and more hands-on than AIMA.)
--
Gareth McCaughan ················@pobox.com
.sig under construc
Richard Krush wrote:
>
> Hello!
>
> As you can see from the subject, I am looking for the right LISP book
> to buy. I have looked at http://www.lisp.org, but they have such a long
> list of books that I can't seem to decide which one to pick. I also
Get the Paul Graham book "ANSI Common Lisp". It's a good intro to lisp
and a good reference manual due to its appendices. It's not perfect,
but I think it's the best out there. Theere is also a LISP book by
Patrick Winston (and Horn?) that I suspect is pretty good, but I'm not
totally sure.
Another intro book is "The Little Lisper" by I-don't-know-who and I am
sure that would be a nice intro book on programming in Lisp. HOWEVER,
it probably doesn't cover the Common-Lisp language in anything close to
its entirety and it would not make a good reference manual down the
line.
--
··········@att.net