I'm new to LISP, and am wondering what would be a good (free) Windows based
compiler/interpreter. So you know where I'm coming from, I'm hoping to find
something similar to PLT's Dr. Scheme for, of course, Scheme. But really,
I'll just take something that works.
On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 21:35:12 -0800, "Alex Jech" <········@hotmail.com> wrote:
: I'm new to LISP, and am wondering what would be a good (free) Windows based
: compiler/interpreter. So you know where I'm coming from, I'm hoping to find
: something similar to PLT's Dr. Scheme for, of course, Scheme. But really,
: I'll just take something that works.
See the section "Common Lisp Implementations" at
http://www.alu.org/table/contents.htm
-- fxn
> I'm new to LISP, and am wondering what would be a good (free) Windows
based
> compiler/interpreter. So you know where I'm coming from, I'm hoping to
find
> something similar to PLT's Dr. Scheme for, of course, Scheme. But really,
> I'll just take something that works.
At the moment there is no free Lisp compiler for Win32 that works without
any limitations. There are some free compilers but they all have some flaws.
Either they are restricted versions of professional products (ACL for
example) or they have other problems. (Of course if everything you want is
to learn CL, these compilers may be wonderful, but you cannot do serious
work with them.)
Janos Blazi
Janos Blazi wrote:
>At the moment there is no free Lisp compiler for Win32 that works without
>any limitations. There are some free compilers but they all have some flaws.
>Either they are restricted versions of professional products (ACL for
>example) or they have other problems. (Of course if everything you want is
>to learn CL, these compilers may be wonderful, but you cannot do serious
>work with them.)
I doubt the last sentence. the free/cheap windows versions I know of
(clisp/corman lisp/poplog) do work wonderful and you can do serious work
with it. for a list see http://www.lisp.org/table/systems.htm#pcfree
--
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/news/faq/autolisp.html
> Janos Blazi wrote:
> >At the moment there is no free Lisp compiler for Win32 that works without
> >any limitations. There are some free compilers but they all have some
flaws.
> >Either they are restricted versions of professional products (ACL for
> >example) or they have other problems. (Of course if everything you want
is
> >to learn CL, these compilers may be wonderful, but you cannot do serious
> >work with them.)
>
> I doubt the last sentence. the free/cheap windows versions I know of
> (clisp/corman lisp/poplog) do work wonderful and you can do serious work
> with it. for a list see http://www.lisp.org/table/systems.htm#pcfree
This may depend on the work you do.
The compilers you mention do not offer a GUI builder toolkit like CLIM or Tk
or whatever else. I very much appreciate the work done by Bruno Haible for
example and it was his wonderful Clisp that first led me to Lisp.
I also very much appreciate CLisp's multi precision arithmetic capabilities.
But I still believe that I was right. And if somebody wants to do serious
work I do not see any reason not to buy any of those commercial compilers.
Janos Blazi
Janos Blazi <·····@t-online.de> ������� � ��������
·························@news.t-online.com...
> > I'm new to LISP, and am wondering what would be a good (free) Windows
> based
> > compiler/interpreter. So you know where I'm coming from, I'm hoping to
> find
> > something similar to PLT's Dr. Scheme for, of course, Scheme. But
really,
> > I'll just take something that works.
>
> At the moment there is no free Lisp compiler for Win32 that works without
> any limitations. There are some free compilers but they all have some
flaws.
> Either they are restricted versions of professional products (ACL for
> example) or they have other problems. (Of course if everything you want is
> to learn CL, these compilers may be wonderful, but you cannot do serious
> work with them.)
>
> Janos Blazi
>
>
That is true. I've found lisp is good for my needs. I am looking for
acceptable lisp development tool for about 5 month, trying to append some
features to available compilers (Corman Lisp, XLisp, CLisp). To do real
things we must have DBMS access (RDBMS, OODBMS) and GUI toolkit. XLisp
(especially XlispStat) has some sort of GUI, has an editor and many good
features. Corman Lisp has IDE and SQL package but it does not have
acceptable GUI toolkit. Only one good free OODBMS is PLOB, but it does'nt
have port noncommercial compiler (only LispWorks and AllegroCL).
Lisp is great environment for doing great things. I can't understand Why
there are so bad situation with these key features for four decades of Lisp
?
May be group of lisp users can write these things for people ? As for me, I
am going to made free public library automation system based on lisp. There
are many small libraries working with very bad software.
Bogdan Norenko
P.S.
If you know acceptable free (or almost free) lisp tool for doing GUI under
win95 or/and know any (free/almost free) DBMS (working under win95 or Linux,
especially for CMUCL), please contact me ( ······@seman.nsu.ru.) I'll be
very appreciated.
"X" <········@chat.ru> writes:
>
> That is true. I've found lisp is good for my needs. I am looking for
> acceptable lisp development tool for about 5 month, trying to append some
> features to available compilers (Corman Lisp, XLisp, CLisp). To do real
> things we must have DBMS access (RDBMS, OODBMS) and GUI toolkit. XLisp
> (especially XlispStat) has some sort of GUI, has an editor and many good
> features.
I can't see any reason why not to buy a commercial version of
LispWorks or ACL than. They have all you are asking for.
>Corman Lisp has IDE and SQL package but it does not have
> acceptable GUI toolkit.
This is hard to believe because IIRC the whole Windows API is
available and easy to extend. What you might looking for is
GUI-Builder. Now why don't you ask Roger to implement one and pay for
it?
> Only one good free OODBMS is PLOB, but it does'nt
> have port noncommercial compiler (only LispWorks and AllegroCL).
> Lisp is great environment for doing great things. I can't understand Why
> there are so bad situation with these key features for four decades of Lisp
> ?
Again I can't follow. What do you expect? A free Lisp with all that
stuff? You can got all you asked for but it seems you are not
willing to spend some money on it. IMHO what you ask for is a way out
of line. You want everthing for free, now if you can't find it you can
take on of the open and free alternatives and spend your time on
implementing what you like to have. Otherwise you can look at
alternatives to Lisp. So it's up to you to make a decision. You hardly
can expect users of Common Lisp implementing it all for you for free.
> May be group of lisp users can write these things for people ?
of course they can. Ask them for it and pay for the development.
> As for me, I
> am going to made free public library automation system based on lisp. There
> are many small libraries working with very bad software.
>
> Bogdan Norenko
IIRC I made you a fair offer some months ago. Since then I've not
heard anything from you. I resend you some mails again but get no
reply from you. Probably because you have changed you e-mail address.
Friedrich
Friedrich Dominicus <·····@q-software-solutions.com> writes:
> "X" <········@chat.ru> writes:
> >Corman Lisp has IDE and SQL package but it does not have
> > acceptable GUI toolkit.
> This is hard to believe because IIRC the whole Windows API is
> available and easy to extend. What you might looking for is
> GUI-Builder. Now why don't you ask Roger to implement one and pay for
> it?
An "Acceptable GUI toolkit" is a completely different thing
from the "Windows API".
--
Raymond Wiker
·············@fast.no
Hello Friedrich !
Glad to see you here. So I'll answer your questions.
>
> I can't see any reason why not to buy a commercial version of
> LispWorks or ACL than. They have all you are asking for.
>
My salary here is 25$ per month. This is half of standard academic salary of
programmer in Russia. Try to survive with such salary. This means that
organisation can not pay even 1000$ for LispWorks or of course much more
5000$ for ACL. There are many organisations like that. I am working here
'cause I want to help people. If I get something free and good I'll make
desired application and give it to people for free too. Is it justice ? But
If I try to implement GUI and DMBS access and library automation system I
will become old and people here will never see system they need. I think
poor public library can use free lisp implementations (Corman Lisp is also
acceptable for about 200$).
> >Corman Lisp has IDE and SQL package but it does not have
> > acceptable GUI toolkit.
> This is hard to believe because IIRC the whole Windows API is
> available and easy to extend. What you might looking for is
> GUI-Builder. Now why don't you ask Roger to implement one and pay for
> it?
I wrote about GUI toolkit to www.corman.net (email given on page) but there
was no answer.
I need not GUI-Builder such as Delphi or Allegro composer. But I need any
acceptable high level GUI toolkit. Low level API access is not GUI toolkit.
I would help to implement a part of such project.
> > Only one good free OODBMS is PLOB, but it does'nt
> > have port noncommercial compiler (only LispWorks and AllegroCL).
> > Lisp is great environment for doing great things. I can't understand Why
> > there are so bad situation with these key features for four decades of
Lisp
> > ?
>
> Again I can't follow. What do you expect? A free Lisp with all that
> stuff? You can got all you asked for but it seems you are not
> willing to spend some money on it. IMHO what you ask for is a way out
> of line. You want everthing for free, now if you can't find it you can
> take on of the open and free alternatives and spend your time on
> implementing what you like to have. Otherwise you can look at
> alternatives to Lisp. So it's up to you to make a decision. You hardly
> can expect users of Common Lisp implementing it all for you for free.
FOR ME ? Were CMUCL and Linux implemented for me too ? ;-))) Thanks a lot.
Is it means people using CMUCL want all for free too ? I have C++,Java,
Scheme with all that stuff. I think free or not so expensive lisp
implementations can easily have all features (even simple implementations
can be helpful) as well. I am going to use lisp even if I am not so rich to
pay 2000$ myself for LispWorks. Only things I can do is to sell my computer
and drop my job.
> > May be group of lisp users can write these things for people ?
> of course they can. Ask them for it and pay for the development.
>
> > As for me, I
> > am going to made free public library automation system based on lisp.
There
> > are many small libraries working with very bad software.
> >
> > Bogdan Norenko
>
> IIRC I made you a fair offer some months ago. Since then I've not
> heard anything from you. I resend you some mails again but get no
> reply from you. Probably because you have changed you e-mail address.
>
> Friedrich
I've downloaded your compiler and examined your site. Sorry I did not have
enough time for real testing the compiler. I have not changed my email. This
is my work email ······@seman.nsu.ru. That email was simply additional. It
is rarely cheked now. I really have not seen your messages.
Regards,
Bogdan Norenko
"X" <········@chat.ru> writes:
> I wrote about GUI toolkit to www.corman.net (email given on page)
> but there was no answer. I need not GUI-Builder such as Delphi or
> Allegro composer. But I need any acceptable high level GUI
> toolkit. Low level API access is not GUI toolkit. I would help to
> implement a part of such project.
What do you consider to be a high level API? Corman Lisp includes
MiniWin which is a CLOS layer over some of the windows API.
I've expanded on this in my own GUI library for Corman Lisp which
includes ActiveX control hosting. It's still quite low level but
useful none the less. I plan to tidy it up and release it in the near
future. It may still be too low level for your use though.
Chris.
--
http://www.double.co.nz/cl
On 04 Apr 2001 08:47:09 +1200, Chris Double <·····@double.co.nz>
wrote:
>
>What do you consider to be a high level API? Corman Lisp includes
>MiniWin which is a CLOS layer over some of the windows API.
>I've expanded on this in my own GUI library for Corman Lisp which
>includes ActiveX control hosting. It's still quite low level but
>useful none the less. I plan to tidy it up and release it in the near
>future. It may still be too low level for your use though.
How much effort would be needed to create some low-level bindings to
the MS Windows API (or the lowest in eg. OpenGL, which is already
available in MS Windows) and then join forces with the free-CLIM guys?
I just revisited Mike McDonalds' CLIM page and downloaded the package
to have a look at it, but I'm sure that Mike will tell us about the
current state and future, and also how feasible it would be to use it
for simple applications.
Regards,
Lars
From: Rahul Jain
Subject: USQL and IMHO debs (was Re: Windows Compilers)
Date:
Message-ID: <9ad3oc$gan$1@joe.rice.edu>
In article <············@nic.nstu.nsk.su> on Tue, 03 Apr 2001 04:45:04
-0500, "X" <········@chat.ru> wrote:
> P.S. If you know acceptable free (or almost free) lisp tool for doing
> .... DBMS (working under win95 or Linux, especially for CMUCL)
How about UncommonSQL with PostgreSQL on Linux?
alpha.onshore.com has the USQL sources, and my experimental packages for
it and IMHO which must be used in debian unstable (as they use
cl-controller) are now up:
http://linux.rice.edu/~rahul/debian
Please email all feedback on the packaging to me. Note that cl-controller
is a bit quirky, and some of the tests for a file's existence may need to
be hacked a bit to actually work with these packages. Hence
"experimental".
--
-> -/- - Rahul Jain - -\- <-
-> -\- http://linux.rice.edu/~rahul -=- ·················@usa.net -/- <-
-> -/- "I never could get the hang of Thursdays." - HHGTTG by DNA -\- <-
|--|--------|--------------|----|-------------|------|---------|-----|-|
Version 11.423.999.220020101.23.50110101.042
(c)1996-2000, All rights reserved. Disclaimer available upon request.
"Rahul Jain" <·····@rice.edu> writes:
> In article <············@nic.nstu.nsk.su> on Tue, 03 Apr 2001 04:45:04
> -0500, "X" <········@chat.ru> wrote:
>
> > P.S. If you know acceptable free (or almost free) lisp tool for doing
> > .... DBMS (working under win95 or Linux, especially for CMUCL)
>
> How about UncommonSQL with PostgreSQL on Linux?
>
> alpha.onshore.com has the USQL sources, and my experimental packages for
> it and IMHO which must be used in debian unstable (as they use
> cl-controller) are now up:
>
> http://linux.rice.edu/~rahul/debian
>
> Please email all feedback on the packaging to me. Note that cl-controller
> is a bit quirky, and some of the tests for a file's existence may need to
> be hacked a bit to actually work with these packages. Hence
> "experimental".
Time for a CL-CONFIGURATION plug? :) Check it out at
http://sourceforge.net/projects/clocc
Cheers
--
Marco Antoniotti ========================================================
NYU Courant Bioinformatics Group tel. +1 - 212 - 998 3488
719 Broadway 12th Floor fax +1 - 212 - 995 4122
New York, NY 10003, USA http://bioinformatics.cat.nyu.edu
"Hello New York! We'll do what we can!"
Bill Murray in `Ghostbusters'.
"Rahul Jain" <·····@rice.edu> writes:
> Please email all feedback on the packaging to me. Note that cl-controller
> is a bit quirky, and some of the tests for a file's existence may need to
> be hacked a bit to actually work with these packages. Hence
> "experimental".
I've noted a few problems myself and I'll try to get a new version out
after the weekend...
Groetjes, Peter
--
It's logic Jim, but not as we know it. | ········@debian.org
"God, root, what is difference?" - Pitr|
"God is more forgiving." - Dave Aronson| http://cvs2.cons.org/~pvaneynd/