G I Gunmaker wrote:
> Now that Rainer Joswig and Erik Naggum have quieted down and this whole
> disgusting debacle is hopefully nearing an end, I'd like to make a simple
> comment. Early in the war, Rainer made a stink about some personal mail
> that Erik had sent him a long time ago. I sort of remember that because
> it
> was so wild. What does old personal mail have to do in a newsgroup? The
> purpose of a newsgroup is to make giant minds clash in entertaining ways,
> it seems, but Rainer wanted _revenge_ in public for some private matter,
> and dug up as much irrelevant dirt as he could. Character assassination
> like that is neither a giant mind at work nor very entertaining, is it?
> Why do so many people accept it?
>
> Rainer is not alone, though. Just watching some of the recent flamewars,
> it's clear that ganging up on Erik is a fair and just and legitimate sport
> in this newsgroup, but I'm left with this sinking feeling that those who
> do it have no more noble a purpose than to get revenge for something or
> other. I don't care to read about revengeful people, especially not about
> those
> who have to dredge up old, hard feelings to fuel their own flames. I
> don't care to read about some revengeful little man who uses "netiquette"
> to get
> his revenge, either. That's a flagrant violation of netiquette just
> there!
>
> Since so many people need to use comp.lang.lisp to take revenge over Erik,
> maybe we could get a newsgroup for them? I suggest
> comp.lang.lisp.revenge,
> moderated. I nominate Rainer for moderator, so Erik wouldn't be allowed
> to
> post any of his vitriolic defenses. They only make more people want more
> revenge, and there's no point letting him defend himself, anyway, since
> none of the revengers care what they do to him. Left to themselves, the
> revengeful mob could then freely post the most tasteless personal attacks
> with impunity and assassinate Erik's character completely. Maybe they'll
> manage to get it out of their system, eventually, too. (But who cares?)
>
> And _maybe_ we could talk about Lisp here among people who don't have such
> an irritating problem separating the public from the private domains.
Sorry I can't help but this is absolute bullshit - not only are you trying
to throw a torch into a tank of fuel you are also making prejudiced
assumptions upon people (Erik, Rainer and all other Participants)
Maybe you think in terms of "revenge", but as I have seen it neither Erik
nor Rainer try to take "revenge" for anything done to them. They are
expressing their opinions very heated - ok but that is something completely
different.
What I miss in your post is a more explicit "IMHO" as your assumptions are
all other than facts - this is what _I_ learned from this discussion maybe
you learn it too someday.
It's a thing between Erik and Rainer and I don't think it is any good to
mix into this dispute when you not feel personaly attacked.
Counting collaborateurs does not get us any further and I for my part have
heard enough opinons on that topic that I can clearly say that I don't need
_your_ opinions.
If this post has attacked any of your feelings, feel free to open YET
ANOTHER OFF TOPIC TOPLEVEL THREAD (YAOTTT ?) To bash me down.
Regards,
Jochen
In article <··············@ID-22205.news.dfncis.de>, Jochen Schmidt
<···@dataheaven.de> wrote:
> G I Gunmaker wrote:
>
> > Now that Rainer Joswig and Erik Naggum have quieted down and this whole
> > disgusting debacle is hopefully nearing an end, I'd like to make a simple
> > comment. Early in the war, Rainer made a stink about some personal mail
> > that Erik had sent him a long time ago. I sort of remember that because
> > it
> > was so wild. What does old personal mail have to do in a newsgroup? The
> > purpose of a newsgroup is to make giant minds clash in entertaining ways,
> > it seems, but Rainer wanted _revenge_ in public for some private matter,
> > and dug up as much irrelevant dirt as he could. Character assassination
> > like that is neither a giant mind at work nor very entertaining, is it?
> > Why do so many people accept it?
> >
> > Rainer is not alone, though. Just watching some of the recent flamewars,
> > it's clear that ganging up on Erik is a fair and just and legitimate sport
> > in this newsgroup, but I'm left with this sinking feeling that those who
> > do it have no more noble a purpose than to get revenge for something or
> > other. I don't care to read about revengeful people, especially not about
> > those
> > who have to dredge up old, hard feelings to fuel their own flames. I
> > don't care to read about some revengeful little man who uses "netiquette"
> > to get
> > his revenge, either. That's a flagrant violation of netiquette just
> > there!
> >
> > Since so many people need to use comp.lang.lisp to take revenge over Erik,
> > maybe we could get a newsgroup for them? I suggest
> > comp.lang.lisp.revenge,
> > moderated. I nominate Rainer for moderator, so Erik wouldn't be allowed
> > to
> > post any of his vitriolic defenses. They only make more people want more
> > revenge, and there's no point letting him defend himself, anyway, since
> > none of the revengers care what they do to him. Left to themselves, the
> > revengeful mob could then freely post the most tasteless personal attacks
> > with impunity and assassinate Erik's character completely. Maybe they'll
> > manage to get it out of their system, eventually, too. (But who cares?)
> >
> > And _maybe_ we could talk about Lisp here among people who don't have such
> > an irritating problem separating the public from the private domains.
>
> Sorry I can't help but this is absolute bullshit - not only are you trying
> to throw a torch into a tank of fuel you are also making prejudiced
> assumptions upon people (Erik, Rainer and all other Participants)
> Maybe you think in terms of "revenge", but as I have seen it neither Erik
> nor Rainer try to take "revenge" for anything done to them. They are
> expressing their opinions very heated - ok but that is something completely
> different.
> What I miss in your post is a more explicit "IMHO" as your assumptions are
> all other than facts - this is what _I_ learned from this discussion maybe
> you learn it too someday.
>
> It's a thing between Erik and Rainer and I don't think it is any good to
> mix into this dispute when you not feel personaly attacked.
>
> Counting collaborateurs does not get us any further and I for my part have
> heard enough opinons on that topic that I can clearly say that I don't need
> _your_ opinions.
>
> If this post has attacked any of your feelings, feel free to open YET
> ANOTHER OFF TOPIC TOPLEVEL THREAD (YAOTTT ?) To bash me down.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jochen
>
Jochen, it was Erik. He was forging his name...
--
Rainer Joswig, Hamburg, Germany
Email: ·············@corporate-world.lisp.de