From: ········@nospam
Subject: newbie questions. lisp have standard libraries?
Date:
Message-ID: <8q3mn8$b1q@drn.newsguy.com>
howdy,
I know very little about lisp, i am just starting to look at it
to learn it.
but was wondering, does lisp have standard libraries, say like
Java has? for example, can I access a database using lisp? can
I write a program that sends email with lisp? etc... if so,
where does one get it?
i program now in Java, and use the standard java classes for
everything, and that saves lots of time coding everything myself.
is lisp a standard now? like ansi or iso standard?
is lisp an OO language? can I have classes and objects in lisp?
thanks
lisp_man
* "lisp_man" == lisp man <········@nospam> writes:
[...]
lisp_man> but was wondering, does lisp have standard libraries, say
lisp_man> like Java has? for example, can I access a database using
lisp_man> lisp? can I write a program that sends email with lisp?
Lisp doesn't have _standard_ libraries in ANSI or ISO sense, but it
has few addons which became de-facto standards, e.g. CLIM, Meta-Object
Protocol, CLX and defsystem (to some extent). It doesn't means they
are inferior in any way; they supported by most of Lisp vendors. After
all, Java(tm) itself is yet another de-facto standard.
There also a lot of quite useful portable packages floating
around. Good instance is CL-HTTP, which implements a lot of things
from basic HTTP 1.1 stream handling to on-fly VRML generation and is
used by president's administration of one very influential country.
Database glue written in Lisp does exists too.
Finally, Lisp is rich enough language so that lots of machinery (like
reflection) which needs to be implemented as separate libraries in
other languages already present in the standard. Many extensions can
be done in CL itself in a portable way (e.g. object system).
--
Eugene Zaikonnikov
Eugene Zaikonnikov <······@cit.org.by> writes:
> * "lisp_man" == lisp man <········@nospam> writes:
>
> [...]
>
> lisp_man> but was wondering, does lisp have standard libraries, say
> lisp_man> like Java has? for example, can I access a database using
> lisp_man> lisp? can I write a program that sends email with lisp?
>
> Lisp doesn't have _standard_ libraries in ANSI or ISO sense, but it
> has few addons which became de-facto standards, e.g. CLIM, Meta-Object
> Protocol, CLX and defsystem (to some extent).
I would qualify the above. Meta-Object Protocol and CLX are "de
facto" standard. There is only one "stand-alone" implementation of
DEFSYSTEM, (guess which one :) ) that works pretty much nicely
everywhere. But for CLIM I wouldn't go that far. The vendors do not
seem to be using CLIM. They will *sell* it to you, but they do not
seem to use it use it.
Cheers
--
Marco Antoniotti =============================================================
NYU Bioinformatics Group tel. +1 - 212 - 998 3488
719 Broadway 12th Floor fax +1 - 212 - 995 4122
New York, NY 10003, USA http://galt.mrl.nyu.edu/valis
Like DNA, such a language [Lisp] does not go out of style.
Paul Graham, ANSI Common Lisp
In article <···············@octagon.mrl.nyu.edu>, Marco Antoniotti
<·······@cs.nyu.edu> wrote:
> Eugene Zaikonnikov <······@cit.org.by> writes:
>
> > * "lisp_man" == lisp man <········@nospam> writes:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > lisp_man> but was wondering, does lisp have standard libraries, say
> > lisp_man> like Java has? for example, can I access a database using
> > lisp_man> lisp? can I write a program that sends email with lisp?
> >
> > Lisp doesn't have _standard_ libraries in ANSI or ISO sense, but it
> > has few addons which became de-facto standards, e.g. CLIM, Meta-Object
> > Protocol, CLX and defsystem (to some extent).
>
> I would qualify the above. Meta-Object Protocol and CLX are "de
> facto" standard. There is only one "stand-alone" implementation of
> DEFSYSTEM, (guess which one :) ) that works pretty much nicely
> everywhere. But for CLIM I wouldn't go that far. The vendors do not
> seem to be using CLIM. They will *sell* it to you, but they do not
> seem to use it use it.
But using the DEFSYSTEM of CLIM, Processes, etc. is also
a good bet. SERIES, CL-HTTP, Zebu, RT, SAVE-OBJECT, LOOM,
GARNET, CM, CLM, SNMP, MAXIMA, PCL - and tons of other packages
have been widely ported. CL-HTTP for example
runs/ran in CMUCL, ACL, LispWorks, MCL, Genera and Liquid
under Unix/Windows/MacOS. So there is a good chance
to get libraries that are running under a multitude of platforms.
More "official" standardization on some stuff would help,
though,
--
Rainer Joswig, Hamburg, Germany
Email: ·············@corporate-world.lisp.de
Web: http://corporate-world.lisp.de/
From: Janis Dzerins
Subject: Re: newbie questions. lisp have standard libraries?
Date:
Message-ID: <87r96it1yf.fsf@asaka.latnet.lv>
········@nospam writes:
> howdy,
>
> I know very little about lisp, i am just starting to look at it
> to learn it.
Look here as well:
http://alu.org
http://franz.com/resources/lisp_links.php3
I'm learning Lisp as well and will try to answer you questions from
the knowledge I've gathered so far.
> but was wondering, does lisp have standard libraries, say like
> Java has?
No. [Common] Lisp does not have "standard" libraries like, say, Java.
The reason, in my opinion, is that Java "standard" libraries are
developed by SUN -- they put whatever they want (what is the marketing
buzzword this month?) in there. Works great for what "programmers" do
these days (hehe, did your boss hear the latest buzzword?).
Lisp, on the other hand, is standardized. If there are things that
many people use, they are added to the language. But not immediately
-- they are time-tested first. That's the reason we have such a great
language with [almost] everything we need. If one needs something more
one writes it for oneself and lets others use it. That's my impression
so far.
> for example, can I access a database using lisp?
A little malformed question, I think. What you meant probably is -- Is
it possible to access database using Lisp? The answer is yes.
> can I write a program that sends email with lisp?
Yes it is possible. I would look in Emacs source first.
> etc... if so, where does one get it?
If we're still talking about libraries I would advice to search on
Internet. There are no single Lisp code repository like for some other
languages. www.lisp.org would be the closest to "all things Lisp". A
search in google can reveal much as well.
> i program now in Java, and use the standard java classes for
> everything, and that saves lots of time coding everything myself.
In Lisp you don't have do write *everything* yourself. But the things
that you must write yourself are a lot easier to write in Lisp than in
Java.
> is lisp a standard now? like ansi or iso standard?
Both. (how long you are Looking at lisp already?)
> is lisp an OO language?
Depends on what you think an OO language is. Common Lisp (as well as
ISLISP I think) supports OO programming style wery well (more than
Java or C++ I would say). But you might get shocked seenig that OO
language might be something so different from Java or C++.
> can I have classes and objects in lisp?
Yes, you can.
Janis Dzerins
--
Laugh at your problems; everybody else does.
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when ········@nospam would say:
>howdy,
>
>I know very little about lisp, i am just starting to look at it
>to learn it.
>
>but was wondering, does lisp have standard libraries, say like
>Java has? for example, can I access a database using lisp? can
>I write a program that sends email with lisp? etc... if so,
>where does one get it?
The standards for this sort of stuff for Lisp are old enough that
they predate SQL-CLI and other such _attempts_ to standardize
interfaces to database systems.
As for email, that's very simple; you merely need to open a pipe
to the "/usr/lib/sendmail" program, and submit the message to that.
Or, if you want to do it the "hard" way, open port 25 on a relevant
host, and negotiate with SMTP. The vast amounts of APIs surrounding
things like MAPI are a result of Microsoft choosing to avoid actual
standards in favor of locking you into their code base.
>i program now in Java, and use the standard java classes for
>everything, and that saves lots of time coding everything myself.
>is lisp a standard now? like ansi or iso standard?
One of the better books on Common Lisp is entitled:
"ANSI Common Lisp."
>is lisp an OO language? can I have classes and objects in lisp?
Of course. it is, and it supports that.
"OO" isn't pervasively _used_ in Lisp. Mind you, C++, the classic
"I write in C++ so it _must_ be OO" language, isn't generally written
_mostly_ in OO style.
--
········@ntlug.org - <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
/* I'd just like to take this moment to point out that C has all
the expressive power of two dixie cups and a string.
*/
-- Jamie Zawinski in the XKeyCaps source
From: Christopher C Stacy
Subject: Re: newbie questions. lisp have standard libraries?
Date:
Message-ID: <x8lk8ca9q9r.fsf@world.std.com>
Java has platform-independant solutions, in the form of standard libraries
that come with the language. The answer, unfortunately, is that Lisp does
not have those things.
Some vendors have add-in packages for things like SQL database connectivity,
COM, and CORBA. But they are not standard, and they are not free.
Lisp is a much more powerful object-oriented language than Java,
but Lisp lacks many higher-level features that are standard in Java.
Lisp vendors could address this if it fit in their business model.
Meanwhile, Lisp may not always be the language of choice for solving
problems that require that kind of standardized ready-to-go integration.