Saw this book in a bookstore:
"Fluid Concepts ...", by Hofstadter (re metaphors, etc).
Fluid Concepts & Creative Analogies : Computer Models of the Fundamental Mechanisms of Thought
by [33]Douglas R. Hofstadter
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Paperback (March 1996)
Basic Books; ISBN: 0465024750 ; Dimensions (in inches): 1.41 x 9.21 x 7.38
Amazon.com Sales Rank: 56,480
Avg. Customer Rating: 4 out of 5 stars
Any opinions?
David
currently i am reading GEB by hofstadter and it is probably my favorite book
as of yet. if your interested in AI, metamath, philosophy, and pretty much
anything else, this is the book. the only thing is it takes work to read it.
to really understand it you have to work with the systems and programs in
there, and write down the vocab if your not familiar with it. but its
definitely worth it and its an incredible book.
David Combs wrote in message <············@panix2.panix.com>...
>
>Saw this book in a bookstore:
>
>"Fluid Concepts ...", by Hofstadter (re metaphors, etc).
> Fluid Concepts & Creative Analogies : Computer Models of the Fundamental
Mechanisms of Thought
The sequel to GEB, Metamagical Themas (a compilation of Hofstadter's
equally-named column in Scientific American) has a few short articles
concerning Lisp, for the lay reader. They are quite out-dated, but
rather funny, and typically Hofstadterian ;-) Anyway, the book is a
good read, and covers an enormous range of topics: I would highly
recommend it.
In article <···················@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>,
"Bob Greene" <········@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> currently i am reading GEB by hofstadter and it is probably my
favorite book
> as of yet. if your interested in AI, metamath, philosophy, and pretty
much
> anything else, this is the book. the only thing is it takes work to
read it.
> to really understand it you have to work with the systems and
programs in
> there, and write down the vocab if your not familiar with it. but its
> definitely worth it and its an incredible book.
>
> David Combs wrote in message <············@panix2.panix.com>...
> >
> >Saw this book in a bookstore:
> >
> >"Fluid Concepts ...", by Hofstadter (re metaphors, etc).
> > Fluid Concepts & Creative Analogies : Computer Models of the
Fundamental
> Mechanisms of Thought
>
>
-- SRS
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
In article <············@nnrp1.deja.com>, SRS <·····@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>The sequel to GEB, Metamagical Themas (a compilation of Hofstadter's
>equally-named column in Scientific American) has a few short articles
>concerning Lisp, for the lay reader. They are quite out-dated, but
>rather funny, and typically Hofstadterian ;-) Anyway, the book is a
>good read, and covers an enormous range of topics: I would highly
>recommend it.
i agree: the intro to Lisp chapters in "Metamagical Themas"
are decent.
some other chapters deal with social/cultural issues, like
nuclear disarmament and nonsexist writing.
i hope the following can help you evaluate Douglas Hofstadter's
understanding of social/cultural issues.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
> D.R.Hofstadter: "alien" "inscrutable" "Oriental mind"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>> in "Metamagical Themas" (1985) Hofstadter self-righteously
>> preached nonsexist language (word choices, etc) with
>> hypersensitivity.
>>
>> in "Le Ton beau de Marot" (1997) Hofstadter casually makes
>> fun of Asians with the phrases such as
>> "inscrutable" "the Oriental mind" and other outdated
>> (and inherently racist) stereotypes.
>>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
> from Douglas Hofstadter's book "Le Ton beau de Marot" (1997)
>
> "Could it be that the very idea of transculturation
> itself is a Western one, and strikes the Oriental mind
> as alien?" (Page 148)
>
> "By virtue of being overly Oriental, it would be
> extraordinarily disorienting!" (Page 149)
>
> have you read another book that's published in the last 20
> years or so that uses the words like "inscrutable" and "the
> Oriental mind" (or other racist stereotypes) to make fun of
> Asians?
>
> if so, could you let me know?
> i'm esp. interested in books by non-comedians.
>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>> NYT's review article of Douglas Hofstadter's book "Le
>> Ton beau de Marot"
>> http://www.nytimes.com/books/97/07/20/reviews/970720.20altert.html
>> (Prof. Alter, using lenient language, points out
>> Hofstadter's superficial understanding of literature
>> and translation.)
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
Tomoyuki Tanaka wrote:
> > from Douglas Hofstadter's book "Le Ton beau de Marot" (1997)
> >
> > "Could it be that the very idea of transculturation
> > itself is a Western one, and strikes the Oriental mind
> > as alien?"
``The taking up of one's freedom from within knowledge is not
an inevitable fact for the humanity of all eras and all lands.
A taking up of freedom which itself is free! That is a revolutionary
act in the most radical sense of the terms. It is the mark of an era
and a civilization, an event of the Western world! Science and the
possibilities of technology are the first conditions for the factual
implementation of the respect for the rights of man. Technical
development thanks to the flourishing of theoretical knowledge
which European humanity passed on its was toward its modernity is
probably, in itself, the essential modality in which the idea of
the rights of man, placed at the center of self-awareness, broadened
in its conception and was inscribed or required as the basis of all
human legislation; which legislation at least thought of itself as being
the rights of man in their indispensible or hoped-for entirety. A
rational discipline, born in Europe, could broaden out and be available
to all humanity. Into a world that until then was felt to be
doomed to an arbitrary play of forces that (natural or supposedly
supernatural, individual and social) only counted in proportion to
their power, in the obstinacy that beings and institutions invest
in preserving in their being and their traditions - there came
the a priori of the rights of man understood as intellectual
a priori, and becoming in fact the measure of all law.''
Levinas, The Rights of Man and the Rights of the Other, _Outside
the Subject_ p.119
--
Ron Hardin
········@mindspring.com
On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
I have this book. It tend to be lengthy some times, however it is very interesting and thought
provoking.
Yoel
David Combs wrote:
> Saw this book in a bookstore:
>
> "Fluid Concepts ...", by Hofstadter (re metaphors, etc).
> Fluid Concepts & Creative Analogies : Computer Models of the Fundamental Mechanisms of Thought
> by [33]Douglas R. Hofstadter
> [34][0465024750.01.MZZZZZZZ.gif] List Price: [DEL: $23.00 :DEL]
> Our Price: $18.40
> You Save: $4.60 (20%)
>
> Availability: Usually ships within 24 hours.
>
> [35]See larger photo
> Paperback (March 1996)
> Basic Books; ISBN: 0465024750 ; Dimensions (in inches): 1.41 x 9.21 x 7.38
> Amazon.com Sales Rank: 56,480
> Avg. Customer Rating: 4 out of 5 stars
>
> Any opinions?
>
> David
In our last episode (Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:23:38 +0200),
the artist formerly known as Yoel Jacobsen said:
>I have this book. It tend to be lengthy some times, however it is
>very interesting and thought provoking.
On the one hand, I agree with you on it being interesting and thought
provoking.
In terms of "practicality," most of what it does is to dash hopes of
having any degree of completeness in AI applications.
For instance, Hofstadter spends time doing comparisons between
Moscow/Moskva and Chicago, demonstrating that the notion of "analogy"
evokes some aspects of intelligence that don't fit well either with a
purely textual analysis or a purely symbolic analysis.
Essentially, he demonstrates that there are some Very Hard Problems
that we don't really have good ways to grapple with analytically.
The analogy I explored that sort of demonstrates this is to ask "What
is the Moscow of New York?"
- New York State has a small town called Moscow (I've driven through
it); if you look in a geographic database, this is what you'll find
as The Answer.
- Moscow is the capital of Russia, and Albany is the capital of New
York.
- New York City is the "cultural/economic centre" of NY State, much
like Moscow.
- There might be a neighbourhood in NYC that has a lot of Russians,
that might be called "Little Russia/Little Moscow," which could fit
the bill as being the "Russian" part of New York.
- An analysis of weather patterns might suggest Buffalo, a city with
Lots Of Snow, as "most analagous."
- Moscow is "pretty central" in Russia; in NY State, Rochester or some
such place may be "equivalently central."
Six points of view; six different answers, all of them (perhaps save
for Rochester!) reasonably legitimate.
This does not lend itself terribly well to programmed analysis, which
is, more or less, my point. The book is interesting, but seems geared
more to suggest places _not_ to go in programming than for places _TO_
go...
--
(concatenate 'string "cbbrowne" ·@" "acm.org")
<http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/moscow.html>
If you eat a live frog in the morning, nothing worse will happen to
either of you for the rest of the day.
From: Barry Margolin
Subject: Re: Any good?: Hofstadter: "Fluid Concepts ..."
Date:
Message-ID: <iuZG5.3$RJ.170@burlma1-snr2>
In article <·················@emet.co.il>,
Yoel Jacobsen <····@emet.co.il> wrote:
>
>I have this book. It tend to be lengthy some times, however it is very
>interesting and thought
>provoking.
A lengthy and thought-provoking book by Hofstadter -- who'd'a thunk it?!
--
Barry Margolin, ······@genuity.net
Genuity, Burlington, MA
*** DON'T SEND TECHNICAL QUESTIONS DIRECTLY TO ME, post them to newsgroups.
Please DON'T copy followups to me -- I'll assume it wasn't posted to the group.
David Combs wrote:
> Saw this book in a bookstore:
>
> "Fluid Concepts ...", by Hofstadter (re metaphors, etc).
> Fluid Concepts & Creative Analogies : Computer Models of the Fundamental Mechanisms of Thought
> by [33]Douglas R. Hofstadter
..
> Any opinions?
Fascinating. Rather repetitive. Many interesting ideas.
Some impressive programs described. (One is available
over the net, and it's in Lisp. But it's not Common Lisp...)
The two chapters I enjoyed most were one on "Copycat",
a program that does a pretty good job (and in ways that
seem "right") of answering questions like "If abc goes
to abe, where does iijjkk go?"; and one called "Perspectives
on Copycat", which is mostly an attack on other AI
researchers' inflated claims for their projects.
For what it's worth, I bought a copy after having
read it.
--
Gareth McCaughan ················@pobox.com
sig under construc
From: Jon Dyte
Subject: Re: Any good?: Hofstadter: "Fluid Concepts ..."
Date:
Message-ID: <8skul6$ctm$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
In article <······························@g.local>,
················@pobox.com wrote:
> David Combs wrote:
> Fascinating. Rather repetitive. Many interesting ideas.
> Some impressive programs described. (One is available
> over the net, and it's in Lisp. But it's not Common Lisp...)
>
> The two chapters I enjoyed most were one on "Copycat",
> a program that does a pretty good job (and in ways that
> seem "right") of answering questions like "If abc goes
> to abe, where does iijjkk go?"; and one called "Perspectives
> on Copycat", which is mostly an attack on other AI
> researchers' inflated claims for their projects.
You can get the source for Copycat from Melanie Mitchell's
site. It's flavors lisp code, and with a bit of tinkering
you can get it to run in ACL (well you could in ACL 4.0X)
using the Flavors package.
I thought the book was worth buying too.
Jon
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.