Hi Lisp Community,
is there a LUGM as part of OOP in 2001 in Munich?
TFI (Thanks for info).
Regards,
#:frgo
--
Frank Goenninger
HP Consulting, Product Lifecycle Collaboration Services
Hewlett-Packard GmbH, Germany
for contact details see: http://ecardfile.com/id/frank_goenninger
--
In article <·················@hp.com>,
······@hp.com wrote:
> Hi Lisp Community,
>
> is there a LUGM as part of OOP in 2001 in Munich?
Hmm, I haven't heard anything about it. It's
hard enough to get a new Lisp Users and Vendors
conference in the US. ;-)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
······@corporate-world.lisp.de writes:
> Hmm, I haven't heard anything about it. It's
> hard enough to get a new Lisp Users and Vendors
> conference in the US. ;-)
Does anyone out there know why there wasn't a conference in the US
this year?
In article <···············@panix3.panix.com>, Carl Shapiro
<········@panix.com> wrote:
> ······@corporate-world.lisp.de writes:
>
> > Hmm, I haven't heard anything about it. It's
> > hard enough to get a new Lisp Users and Vendors
> > conference in the US. ;-)
>
> Does anyone out there know why there wasn't a conference in the US
> this year?
let me guess:
a) lack of interest
b) lack of enthusiasm
c) lack of organizers
d) lack of sponsors
e) people were incredible busy writing business plans
The traffic on comp.lang.lisp (besides some teaching of
english language features, ...) seems to indicate
still strong interest in Lisp and there are some new companies
using Lisp out there.
A Lisp conference in the US next year seems to be
worthwile the effort. With an interesting topic
one could attract many users and even sponsors (I have
an idea for such a topic). Organizer of such an
event usually is the ALU (the "Association of Lisp Users").
Contact ·········@AI.SRI.COM if you or your company are interested
in participating or even better if you are interested in
helping to make another Lisp conference happen. This includes
organizational help and/or sponsoring.
What is the main lead topic you think should be the focus
of next years Lisp conference?
ALU -> http://www.lisp.org/table/about.htm#alu
--
Rainer Joswig, Hamburg, Germany
Email: ·············@corporate-world.lisp.de
Web: http://corporate-world.lisp.de/
Rainer, Carl,
I really want to see a LUGM happening in 2001. I took your advice and
sent an E-mail to ·········@AI.SRI.COM.
The more important question is about the topic, as you, Rainer, already
pointed out. Could we exchange ideas?
With all the hype around e-commerce I would strongly suggest to address
this subject. Success stories, references, etc are all important to make
Lisp even more successfull.
Other (supplemental) topics could be (in no special order):
- agents, agent environments
- productivity, time-to-production in e-commerce systems
- e-services as an extension to e-commerce (e''speak, brokering): how to
do this with Lisp
- complex system integration: data strcuture mapping (bills of material,
integrating product data management systems across company bounderies),
dapa mapping, all this based on flexible, adaptable data manipulation
systems using Lisp as implementation basis.
If we could address these topics and come up with some compelling
stories I am sure this would make for a good afterburner effect for
Lisp!
What do you think? Any feedback from anyone more than welcome!
Rainer Joswig wrote:
>
> In article <···············@panix3.panix.com>, Carl Shapiro
> <········@panix.com> wrote:
>
> > ······@corporate-world.lisp.de writes:
> >
> > > Hmm, I haven't heard anything about it. It's
> > > hard enough to get a new Lisp Users and Vendors
> > > conference in the US. ;-)
> >
> > Does anyone out there know why there wasn't a conference in the US
> > this year?
>
> let me guess:
>
> a) lack of interest
> b) lack of enthusiasm
> c) lack of organizers
> d) lack of sponsors
> e) people were incredible busy writing business plans
>
> The traffic on comp.lang.lisp (besides some teaching of
> english language features, ...) seems to indicate
> still strong interest in Lisp and there are some new companies
> using Lisp out there.
>
> A Lisp conference in the US next year seems to be
> worthwile the effort. With an interesting topic
> one could attract many users and even sponsors (I have
> an idea for such a topic). Organizer of such an
> event usually is the ALU (the "Association of Lisp Users").
>
> Contact ·········@AI.SRI.COM if you or your company are interested
> in participating or even better if you are interested in
> helping to make another Lisp conference happen. This includes
> organizational help and/or sponsoring.
>
> What is the main lead topic you think should be the focus
> of next years Lisp conference?
>
> ALU -> http://www.lisp.org/table/about.htm#alu
>
> --
> Rainer Joswig, Hamburg, Germany
> Email: ·············@corporate-world.lisp.de
> Web: http://corporate-world.lisp.de/
--
Ragards,
#:frgo
--
Frank Goenninger
HP Consulting, Product Lifecycle Collaboration Services
Hewlett-Packard GmbH, Germany
for contact details see: http://ecardfile.com/id/frank_goenninger
--
In article <·················@hp.com>,
······@hp.com wrote:
(I'm sending this again through Dejanews. Ignore it, if you
see two postings...).
Hi Frank,
sorry this getting kind of lengthy ... but here we go:
> I really want to see a LUGM happening in 2001. I took your advice and
> sent an E-mail to ·········@AI.SRI.COM.
> With all the hype around e-commerce I would strongly suggest to address
> this subject. Success stories, references, etc are all important to make
> Lisp even more successfull.
>
> Other (supplemental) topics could be (in no special order):
> - agents, agent environments
> - productivity, time-to-production in e-commerce systems
> - e-services as an extension to e-commerce (e''speak, brokering): how to
> do this with Lisp
> - complex system integration: data strcuture mapping (bills of material,
> integrating product data management systems across company bounderies),
> dapa mapping, all this based on flexible, adaptable data manipulation
> systems using Lisp as implementation basis.
>
> If we could address these topics and come up with some compelling
> stories I am sure this would make for a good afterburner effect for
> Lisp!
>
> What do you think? Any feedback from anyone more than welcome!
I really do like this topic "e-commerce". At the same time I don't
think it is (currently?) broad enough - it seems more like a topic for
an extended workshop on "Practical Applications of Lisp". For a
Lisp conference I'm not sure if there is enough material
that attracts developers/users/vendors that are not directly
interested in this topic.
I have a proposal for a different topic. I haven't discussed this
until now, but I like to present this idea to the ALU
(Associations of Lisp Users, "www.alu.org") at some point.
Why would somebody want to attend a Lisp conference
(we are speaking maybe about a whole week!)?
a) meet the people
b) learn something interesting
c) be a better Lisp programmer
d) spread the word
e) make business contacts
f) making sure that his tools are safe and healthy
g) publish a paper
I have been to Lisp conferences in the past - and it was
great! The organizers did an extremely good job.
Tons of Lisp people and great atmosphere.
In the past we had some topics about
applications and specific application areas
I think it is time to
talk about THE LANGUAGE itself.
One of the special features of the Lisp community is, that they
have the choice of a wide variety of implementations - both
"free" and commercial. This is both a strengths and a burden.
New Lisp-using companies are popping up, they have interesting
applications and they need to keep up with the ever changing
IT landscape. Common Lisp still seems to attract commercial
developers - at the same time we see that the "core" Common Lisp
now is the ANSI Common Lisp standard. Adoption of ANSI CL was slow
(but is improving and still ongoing) and the ANSI standardization
process is somewhat heavy. Recent discussion here on comp.lang.lisp
showed the conflict between those who feel the need
for certain changes and those who want to preserve
certain features of Common Lisp. We need to bring the discussion
into a forum where we can exchange more arguments.
So what I would see as an perspective for a Lisp conference:
a) bring "Common Lisp the Standard" into focus
b) let people present their use of Lisp
c) make the conference valuable by having great tutorials
about Lisp programming. Every Lisp
programmer should benefit from this. It will enhance
your personal productivity. Your company will like
that.
d) everybody should be clear what his contributions are,
why they are needed and how the community as a whole
benefits from that -> breath of life into ALU
e) increasing "Lisp" business. This means business with
Lisp and Lisp tools.
f) Internet usage (as of the year 2000) of the Lisp
community
So he comes the "****proposal****":
------------------------------------------------------------------
Lisp Users and Vendors Conference 2001
Common Lisp the Standard (and its Extensions) "CLtS"
Each Lisp Conference should have a lead topic.
I propose the topic "CLtS, Common Lisp the Standard
(and its Extensions)" for the next Lisp Conference. The time seems
to be right to discuss this topic in depth. The interest
in Common Lisp seems to be growing and several companies
are using Common Lisp for commercial software development.
Since the world around us is changing rapidly, new
extensions to CL are appearing and need to be looked at.
Some companies are duplicating effort, aiming
to write portable libraries. Vendors are
experimenting with changes to Common Lisp..
Here are some areas that might be touched by talks
and tutorials.
- ANSI Common Lisp
-- understanding the current ANSI Common Lisp standard
-- problems of the current ANSI Common standard
-- proposed changes to ANSI CL
-- looking back / success stories
-- who is using ANSI Common Lisp and why?
-- who is providing ANSI Common Lisp? What is the target audience?
-- what are the weak points of the/an ANSI CL standard?
-- Test Suites for ANSI CL implementations (Compatibility, Speed, ...)
-- Verified Common Lisp
-- Language design issues
-- Semantics
-- Compilation
-- Implementation Strategies
-- J13 meeting
- Standardization process
-- ANSI
-- RFCs / RFIs
- Community
-- ALU
-- Sourceforge
-- J13 group
- Extended Common Lisp
-- portable implementation of the greater Common Lisp
- Mininal Common Lisp
-- Kernel Lisp
- Extensions
-- Meta Object Protocol
-- Networking
-- Graphics
-- Java
-- Foreign Function Interface
-- Database Interfaces
-- CORBA
-- Processes/Threads
-- AI languages
-- Multiprocessor support
-- Streams
-- Tail recursion
-- Primary Classes
-- Weak Hashtables
-- ...
- Tutorials (very important)
-- Guide to the ANSI Common Lisp HyperSpec
-- ANSI Common Lisp programming
-- Common Lisp programming for portability
-- Common Lisp programming for speed
- Vendor presentations and demonstrations
-- state of the art in Lisp implementations
-- new platforms for Lisp (64 Bit machines, MacOS X, Linux, ...)
-- development environments
-- connectivity capabilities (TCP/CORBA/Java/FLI/COM/...)
-- success stories
-- future directions
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember, this is just a proposal and not an invitation. ;-)
Feel free to send feedback. I'm in early december in Cambridge/MA,
maybe there is opportunity to discuss some ideas.
Rainer Joswig
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
In article <·················@hp.com>,
······@hp.com wrote:
Hi Frank,
sorry this getting kind of lengthy ... but here we go:
> I really want to see a LUGM happening in 2001. I took your advice and
> sent an E-mail to ·········@AI.SRI.COM.
> With all the hype around e-commerce I would strongly suggest to address
> this subject. Success stories, references, etc are all important to make
> Lisp even more successfull.
>
> Other (supplemental) topics could be (in no special order):
> - agents, agent environments
> - productivity, time-to-production in e-commerce systems
> - e-services as an extension to e-commerce (e''speak, brokering): how to
> do this with Lisp
> - complex system integration: data strcuture mapping (bills of material,
> integrating product data management systems across company bounderies),
> dapa mapping, all this based on flexible, adaptable data manipulation
> systems using Lisp as implementation basis.
>
> If we could address these topics and come up with some compelling
> stories I am sure this would make for a good afterburner effect for
> Lisp!
>
> What do you think? Any feedback from anyone more than welcome!
I really do like this topic "e-commerce". At the same time I don't
think it is (currently?) broad enough - it seems more like a topic for
an extended workshop on "Practical Applications of Lisp". For a
Lisp conference I'm not sure if there is enough material
that attracts developers/users/vendors that are not directly
interested in this topic.
I have a proposal for a different topic. I haven't discussed this
until now, but I like to present this idea to the ALU
(Associations of Lisp Users, "www.alu.org") at some point.
Why would somebody want to attend a Lisp conference
(we are speaking maybe about a whole week!)?
a) meet the people
b) learn something interesting
c) be a better Lisp programmer
d) spread the word
e) make business contacts
f) making sure that his tools are safe and healthy
g) publish a paper
I have been to Lisp conferences in the past - and it was
great! The organizers did an extremely good job.
Tons of Lisp people and great atmosphere.
In the past we had some topics about
applications and specific application areas
I think it is time to
talk about THE LANGUAGE itself.
One of the special features of the Lisp community is, that they
have the choice of a wide variety of implementations - both
"free" and commercial. This is both a strengths and a burden.
New Lisp-using companies are popping up, they have interesting
applications and they need to keep up with the ever changing
IT landscape. Common Lisp still seems to attract commercial
developers - at the same time we see that the "core" Common Lisp
now is the ANSI Common Lisp standard. Adoption of ANSI CL was slow
(but is improving and still ongoing) and the ANSI standardization
process is somewhat heavy. Recent discussion here on comp.lang.lisp
showed the conflict between those who feel the need
for certain changes and those who want to preserve
certain features of Common Lisp. We need to bring the discussion
into a forum where we can exchange more arguments.
So what I would see as an perspective for a Lisp conference:
a) bring "Common Lisp the Standard" into focus
b) let people present their use of Lisp
c) make the conference valuable by having great tutorials
about Lisp programming. Every Lisp
programmer should benefit from this. It will enhance
your personal productivity. Your company will like
that.
d) everybody should be clear what his contributions are,
why they are needed and how the community as a whole
benefits from that -> breath of life into ALU
e) increasing "Lisp" business. This means business with
Lisp and Lisp tools.
f) Internet usage (as of the year 2000) of the Lisp
community
So he comes the "****proposal****":
------------------------------------------------------------------
Lisp Users and Vendors Conference 2001
Common Lisp the Standard (and its Extensions) "CLtS"
Each Lisp Conference should have a lead topic.
I propose the topic "CLtS, Common Lisp the Standard
(and its Extensions)" for the next Lisp Conference. The time seems
to be right to discuss this topic in depth. The interest
in Common Lisp seems to be growing and several companies
are using Common Lisp for commercial software development.
Since the world around us is changing rapidly, new
extensions to CL are appearing and need to be looked at.
Some companies are duplicating effort, aiming
to write portable libraries. Vendors are
experimenting with changes to Common Lisp..
Here are some areas that might be touched by talks
and tutorials.
- ANSI Common Lisp
-- understanding the current ANSI Common Lisp standard
-- problems of the current ANSI Common standard
-- proposed changes to ANSI CL
-- looking back / success stories
-- who is using ANSI Common Lisp and why?
-- who is providing ANSI Common Lisp? What is the target audience?
-- what are the weak points of the/an ANSI CL standard?
-- Test Suites for ANSI CL implementations (Compatibility, Speed, ...)
-- Verified Common Lisp
-- Language design issues
-- Semantics
-- Compilation
-- Implementation Strategies
-- J13 meeting
- Standardization process
-- ANSI
-- RFCs / RFIs
- Community
-- ALU
-- Sourceforge
-- J13 group
- Extended Common Lisp
-- portable implementation of the greater Common Lisp
- Mininal Common Lisp
-- Kernel Lisp
- Extensions
-- Meta Object Protocol
-- Networking
-- Graphics
-- Java
-- Foreign Function Interface
-- Database Interfaces
-- CORBA
-- Processes/Threads
-- AI languages
-- Multiprocessor support
-- Streams
-- Tail recursion
-- Primary Classes
-- Weak Hashtables
-- ...
- Tutorials (very important)
-- Guide to the ANSI Common Lisp HyperSpec
-- ANSI Common Lisp programming
-- Common Lisp programming for portability
-- Common Lisp programming for speed
- Vendor presentations and demonstrations
-- state of the art in Lisp implementations
-- new platforms for Lisp (64 Bit machines, MacOS X, Linux, ...)
-- development environments
-- connectivity capabilities (TCP/CORBA/Java/FLI/COM/...)
-- success stories
-- future directions
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember, this is just a proposal and not an invitation. ;-)
Feel free to send feedback. I'm in early december in Cambridge/MA,
maybe there is opportunity to discuss some ideas.
Rainer Joswig
--
Rainer Joswig, Hamburg, Germany
Email: ·············@corporate-world.lisp.de
Web: http://corporate-world.lisp.de/
From: Frank Goenninger
Subject: Re: Lisp conference is 2001 ?
Date:
Message-ID: <3A241ABC.A8FFF114@hp.com>
Hi Rainer,
after reading your message I got convinced to "open up" the topic of a
next LUGM. Actually I feel _very_ comfortable with your proposal.
After following the more recent postings to c.l.l I would suggest to
extend the Extensions list (oh well - extending extensions ;-)) with:
- Transactions
- Distributed Lisp
and the Community list by
- Teaching Lisp
BUT: More important seems to me how to actually _proceed_ with all this
in really preparing a LUGM? Who takes the ownership/leadership - who did
this in the past and what might convince them to do it again, although
with help from some of the c.l.l. contributors?
Thanks again for providing insight, advice, and feedback.
Regards,
Frank
Rainer Joswig wrote:
>
> In article <·················@hp.com>,
> ······@hp.com wrote:
>
> Hi Frank,
>
> sorry this getting kind of lengthy ... but here we go:
>
> > I really want to see a LUGM happening in 2001. I took your advice and
> > sent an E-mail to ·········@AI.SRI.COM.
>
> > With all the hype around e-commerce I would strongly suggest to address
> > this subject. Success stories, references, etc are all important to make
> > Lisp even more successfull.
> >
> > Other (supplemental) topics could be (in no special order):
> > - agents, agent environments
> > - productivity, time-to-production in e-commerce systems
> > - e-services as an extension to e-commerce (e''speak, brokering): how to
> > do this with Lisp
> > - complex system integration: data strcuture mapping (bills of material,
> > integrating product data management systems across company bounderies),
> > dapa mapping, all this based on flexible, adaptable data manipulation
> > systems using Lisp as implementation basis.
> >
> > If we could address these topics and come up with some compelling
> > stories I am sure this would make for a good afterburner effect for
> > Lisp!
> >
> > What do you think? Any feedback from anyone more than welcome!
>
> I really do like this topic "e-commerce". At the same time I don't
> think it is (currently?) broad enough - it seems more like a topic for
> an extended workshop on "Practical Applications of Lisp". For a
> Lisp conference I'm not sure if there is enough material
> that attracts developers/users/vendors that are not directly
> interested in this topic.
>
> I have a proposal for a different topic. I haven't discussed this
> until now, but I like to present this idea to the ALU
> (Associations of Lisp Users, "www.alu.org") at some point.
> Why would somebody want to attend a Lisp conference
> (we are speaking maybe about a whole week!)?
>
> a) meet the people
> b) learn something interesting
> c) be a better Lisp programmer
> d) spread the word
> e) make business contacts
> f) making sure that his tools are safe and healthy
> g) publish a paper
>
> I have been to Lisp conferences in the past - and it was
> great! The organizers did an extremely good job.
> Tons of Lisp people and great atmosphere.
>
> In the past we had some topics about
> applications and specific application areas
> I think it is time to
> talk about THE LANGUAGE itself.
>
> One of the special features of the Lisp community is, that they
> have the choice of a wide variety of implementations - both
> "free" and commercial. This is both a strengths and a burden.
> New Lisp-using companies are popping up, they have interesting
> applications and they need to keep up with the ever changing
> IT landscape. Common Lisp still seems to attract commercial
> developers - at the same time we see that the "core" Common Lisp
> now is the ANSI Common Lisp standard. Adoption of ANSI CL was slow
> (but is improving and still ongoing) and the ANSI standardization
> process is somewhat heavy. Recent discussion here on comp.lang.lisp
> showed the conflict between those who feel the need
> for certain changes and those who want to preserve
> certain features of Common Lisp. We need to bring the discussion
> into a forum where we can exchange more arguments.
>
> So what I would see as an perspective for a Lisp conference:
>
> a) bring "Common Lisp the Standard" into focus
> b) let people present their use of Lisp
> c) make the conference valuable by having great tutorials
> about Lisp programming. Every Lisp
> programmer should benefit from this. It will enhance
> your personal productivity. Your company will like
> that.
> d) everybody should be clear what his contributions are,
> why they are needed and how the community as a whole
> benefits from that -> breath of life into ALU
> e) increasing "Lisp" business. This means business with
> Lisp and Lisp tools.
> f) Internet usage (as of the year 2000) of the Lisp
> community
>
> So he comes the "****proposal****":
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Lisp Users and Vendors Conference 2001
>
> Common Lisp the Standard (and its Extensions) "CLtS"
>
> Each Lisp Conference should have a lead topic.
> I propose the topic "CLtS, Common Lisp the Standard
> (and its Extensions)" for the next Lisp Conference. The time seems
> to be right to discuss this topic in depth. The interest
> in Common Lisp seems to be growing and several companies
> are using Common Lisp for commercial software development.
> Since the world around us is changing rapidly, new
> extensions to CL are appearing and need to be looked at.
> Some companies are duplicating effort, aiming
> to write portable libraries. Vendors are
> experimenting with changes to Common Lisp..
>
> Here are some areas that might be touched by talks
> and tutorials.
>
> - ANSI Common Lisp
> -- understanding the current ANSI Common Lisp standard
> -- problems of the current ANSI Common standard
> -- proposed changes to ANSI CL
> -- looking back / success stories
> -- who is using ANSI Common Lisp and why?
> -- who is providing ANSI Common Lisp? What is the target audience?
> -- what are the weak points of the/an ANSI CL standard?
> -- Test Suites for ANSI CL implementations (Compatibility, Speed, ...)
> -- Verified Common Lisp
> -- Language design issues
> -- Semantics
> -- Compilation
> -- Implementation Strategies
> -- J13 meeting
>
> - Standardization process
> -- ANSI
> -- RFCs / RFIs
>
> - Community
> -- ALU
> -- Sourceforge
> -- J13 group
>
> - Extended Common Lisp
> -- portable implementation of the greater Common Lisp
>
> - Mininal Common Lisp
> -- Kernel Lisp
>
> - Extensions
> -- Meta Object Protocol
> -- Networking
> -- Graphics
> -- Java
> -- Foreign Function Interface
> -- Database Interfaces
> -- CORBA
> -- Processes/Threads
> -- AI languages
> -- Multiprocessor support
> -- Streams
> -- Tail recursion
> -- Primary Classes
> -- Weak Hashtables
> -- ...
>
> - Tutorials (very important)
> -- Guide to the ANSI Common Lisp HyperSpec
> -- ANSI Common Lisp programming
> -- Common Lisp programming for portability
> -- Common Lisp programming for speed
>
> - Vendor presentations and demonstrations
> -- state of the art in Lisp implementations
> -- new platforms for Lisp (64 Bit machines, MacOS X, Linux, ...)
> -- development environments
> -- connectivity capabilities (TCP/CORBA/Java/FLI/COM/...)
> -- success stories
> -- future directions
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Remember, this is just a proposal and not an invitation. ;-)
> Feel free to send feedback. I'm in early december in Cambridge/MA,
> maybe there is opportunity to discuss some ideas.
>
> Rainer Joswig
>
> --
> Rainer Joswig, Hamburg, Germany
> Email: ·············@corporate-world.lisp.de
> Web: http://corporate-world.lisp.de/
--
#:Frank
--
Frank Goenninger
HP Consulting, Product Lifecycle Collaboration Services
Hewlett-Packard GmbH, Germany
for contact details see: http://ecardfile.com/id/frank_goenninger
--
In article <·················@hp.com>, ······@hp.com wrote:
> Hi Rainer,
>
> after reading your message I got convinced to "open up" the topic of a
> next LUGM. Actually I feel _very_ comfortable with your proposal.
>
> After following the more recent postings to c.l.l I would suggest to
> extend the Extensions list (oh well - extending extensions ;-)) with:
>
> - Transactions
> - Distributed Lisp
Yes.
> and the Community list by
>
> - Teaching Lisp
Yes.
>
> BUT: More important seems to me how to actually _proceed_ with all this
> in really preparing a LUGM? Who takes the ownership/leadership - who did
> this in the past and what might convince them to do it again, although
> with help from some of the c.l.l. contributors?
>
> Thanks again for providing insight, advice, and feedback.
I can't see an independent (user+vendor driven, instead of vendor-driven)
Lisp "conference" in Germany in 2001.
There is not enough support for that, I think. With a
European focus this **might** be different.
I'd think there might be a chance to attract people to an independent
Lisp conference in the US. There *was* some "commitment" of the
ALU to organize such a thing. But it is my impression that
the ALU is a bit dormant right now - it is unclear to me what
the reason for that is. I didn't get enough feedback/support on my
proposal and I got even less opposition to it. Currently
it is necessary to do more lobbying for a Lisp conference and
collect people willing to organize it. I haven't done much for
that yet, I just tried to get an idea what the ALU board's position
currently is. There are people like Ernst van Waning, who would
really like to see something happen.
I'd like to discuss this with some more people to see whether
it is fruitful to put some energy into it. Especially we shouldn't
organize a Lisp conference solely from Europe which
will take place in the US. I also like to be careful, because
organizing is a bit more risky than in the past, since the
"Lisp community" is different from the past and has less knowledge
about itself or about organizing such a thing.
"My" "plan" looks like this:
- activate the ALU
- collect some voices from vendors and prominent Lisp users
- get an overview of the interest from the broader Lisp community
- come up with a more detailed plan
-- time
-- place
-- finance
-- topic/charta
-- publicity
-- core organizers
-- invitation
-- recruiting participants, speakers, ...
-- ...
- collect an organizing team
- follow the detailed plan
But currently it remains unclear how much interest in a Lisp
conference there is and how much this means in terms of
support.
All in all, I'd say I'm sceptic that it will happen.
What do you think?
Rainer Joswig
--
Rainer Joswig, Hamburg, Germany
Email: ·············@corporate-world.lisp.de
Web: http://corporate-world.lisp.de/
From: Frank Goenninger
Subject: Re: Lisp conference in 2001 ?
Date:
Message-ID: <3A2432CE.1767F1A6@hp.com>
Hi again -
still at the keyboard that late? Suppose you've got some pressure or an
interesting project.
Well, you seem to have the contacts, the experience, ...
All I can contribute and would be glad to actually do so is to
contribute in organizing a conference. I could do all the paper
collecting, paper printing, ... work, you know. I also could track
speakers and their contributions, help in setting up the communications
to all the parties - simply do the "ugly" stuff.
Regarding the location I also tend to assume this would be in the US. I
can't measure what consequences this has to possible European or even
German participants. How about you? What about the experience of the
last conference?
With all the topics of your proposal I think such a conference is
crucial for "spreading the news" of Lisp being a real alternative in
implementations.
WHAT DO ALL THE OTHERS OUT THERE THING ABOUT THIS ????
As you already indicated there is little reaction of others on this
subject. I already tended to email directly to some of the more active
contributors in c.l.l. ... With all the discussions in other threads
going on on language extensions I thought that the interest in "fighting
this out" in a direct discussion would be of interest to the buddies
here.
SO AGAIN - WHAT DO THE OTHERS OUT THERE THINK OF IT ?
As always: feedback welcome.
Regards,
Frank
Rainer Joswig wrote:
>
> In article <·················@hp.com>, ······@hp.com wrote:
>
> > Hi Rainer,
> >
> > after reading your message I got convinced to "open up" the topic of a
> > next LUGM. Actually I feel _very_ comfortable with your proposal.
> >
> > After following the more recent postings to c.l.l I would suggest to
> > extend the Extensions list (oh well - extending extensions ;-)) with:
> >
> > - Transactions
> > - Distributed Lisp
>
> Yes.
>
> > and the Community list by
> >
> > - Teaching Lisp
>
> Yes.
> >
> > BUT: More important seems to me how to actually _proceed_ with all this
> > in really preparing a LUGM? Who takes the ownership/leadership - who did
> > this in the past and what might convince them to do it again, although
> > with help from some of the c.l.l. contributors?
> >
> > Thanks again for providing insight, advice, and feedback.
>
> I can't see an independent (user+vendor driven, instead of vendor-driven)
> Lisp "conference" in Germany in 2001.
> There is not enough support for that, I think. With a
> European focus this **might** be different.
>
> I'd think there might be a chance to attract people to an independent
> Lisp conference in the US. There *was* some "commitment" of the
> ALU to organize such a thing. But it is my impression that
> the ALU is a bit dormant right now - it is unclear to me what
> the reason for that is. I didn't get enough feedback/support on my
> proposal and I got even less opposition to it. Currently
> it is necessary to do more lobbying for a Lisp conference and
> collect people willing to organize it. I haven't done much for
> that yet, I just tried to get an idea what the ALU board's position
> currently is. There are people like Ernst van Waning, who would
> really like to see something happen.
>
> I'd like to discuss this with some more people to see whether
> it is fruitful to put some energy into it. Especially we shouldn't
> organize a Lisp conference solely from Europe which
> will take place in the US. I also like to be careful, because
> organizing is a bit more risky than in the past, since the
> "Lisp community" is different from the past and has less knowledge
> about itself or about organizing such a thing.
>
> "My" "plan" looks like this:
>
> - activate the ALU
> - collect some voices from vendors and prominent Lisp users
> - get an overview of the interest from the broader Lisp community
> - come up with a more detailed plan
> -- time
> -- place
> -- finance
> -- topic/charta
> -- publicity
> -- core organizers
> -- invitation
> -- recruiting participants, speakers, ...
> -- ...
> - collect an organizing team
> - follow the detailed plan
>
> But currently it remains unclear how much interest in a Lisp
> conference there is and how much this means in terms of
> support.
>
> All in all, I'd say I'm sceptic that it will happen.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Rainer Joswig
>
> --
> Rainer Joswig, Hamburg, Germany
> Email: ·············@corporate-world.lisp.de
> Web: http://corporate-world.lisp.de/
--
#:Frank
--
Frank Goenninger
HP Consulting, Product Lifecycle Collaboration Services
Hewlett-Packard GmbH, Germany
for contact details see: http://ecardfile.com/id/frank_goenninger
--
In article <·················@hp.com>, ······@hp.com wrote:
> Hi again -
>
> still at the keyboard that late? Suppose you've got some pressure or an
> interesting project.
Vacation. ;-)
> All I can contribute and would be glad to actually do so is to
> contribute in organizing a conference. I could do all the paper
> collecting, paper printing, ... work, you know. I also could track
> speakers and their contributions, help in setting up the communications
> to all the parties - simply do the "ugly" stuff.
This is quite a lot.
> Regarding the location I also tend to assume this would be in the US. I
> can't measure what consequences this has to possible European or even
> German participants. How about you? What about the experience of the
> last conference?
Given that I have time, I would be there.
Rainer Joswig
--
Rainer Joswig, Hamburg, Germany
Email: ·············@corporate-world.lisp.de
Web: http://corporate-world.lisp.de/
Frank Goenninger <················@hp.com> writes:
> Regarding the location I also tend to assume this would be in the US. I
> can't measure what consequences this has to possible European or even
> German participants. How about you? What about the experience of the
> last conference?
In a stunningly self-serving move, I'd suggest the Boston/Cambridge
area as a good location -- it's convenient to both North America and
Europe, and has a reasonably large base of local Lisp users and vendors.
Thom
--
Thom Goodsell ···@cra.com
Scientist (617) 491-3474 x574
Charles River Analytics http://www.cra.com/
Thom Goodsell <···@cra.com> writes:
> Frank Goenninger <················@hp.com> writes:
>
> > Regarding the location I also tend to assume this would be in the US. I
> > can't measure what consequences this has to possible European or even
> > German participants. How about you? What about the experience of the
> > last conference?
>
> In a stunningly self-serving move, I'd suggest the Boston/Cambridge
> area as a good location -- it's convenient to both North America and
> Europe, and has a reasonably large base of local Lisp users and vendors.
Although the US Bay Area is a favorite travel destination of mine, I
think it's been too many times on the west coast of the US, forcing
east coasters to travel, so Boston/Cambridge seems good to me, too.
[And hey, I just moved a bit over an hour north to New Hampshire, so I'm
not even suggesting my home town any more...]
If not Boston, I'd rather go to Europe than the West Coast, just because
it's been so often recently favoring the left and I think it should go
rightward. (No political symbolism intended.)
Thom Goodsell <···@cra.com> writes:
> Frank Goenninger <················@hp.com> writes:
>
> > Regarding the location I also tend to assume this would be in the US. I
> > can't measure what consequences this has to possible European or even
> > German participants. How about you? What about the experience of the
> > last conference?
>
> In a stunningly self-serving move, I'd suggest the Boston/Cambridge
> area as a good location -- it's convenient to both North America and
> Europe, and has a reasonably large base of local Lisp users and vendors.
I'll second that, although my first choice would be Braintree, MA.
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In article <·················@hp.com>, ················@hp.com says...
> With all the topics of your proposal I think such a conference is
> crucial for "spreading the news" of Lisp being a real alternative in
> implementations.
>
> WHAT DO ALL THE OTHERS OUT THERE THING ABOUT THIS ????
>
> As you already indicated there is little reaction of others on this
> subject. I already tended to email directly to some of the more active
> contributors in c.l.l. ... With all the discussions in other threads
> going on on language extensions I thought that the interest in "fighting
> this out" in a direct discussion would be of interest to the buddies
> here.
>
> SO AGAIN - WHAT DO THE OTHERS OUT THERE THINK OF IT ?
I would love to see such a conference next year, either in Europe/Boston
or in the USA.
It would be great to have such a conference at the same time and location
as the annual conferences of the commercial vendors. :-)
I dont think that both of them would agree to have their conferences at
the same place and time, but it would be the best for our community.
--
Samir Sekkat
Munich, Germany
············@bigfoot.DELETETHIS.com
In article <··························@news.compuserve.com>, Samir
Sekkat <············@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> In article <·················@hp.com>, ················@hp.com says...
> > With all the topics of your proposal I think such a conference is
> > crucial for "spreading the news" of Lisp being a real alternative in
> > implementations.
> >
> > WHAT DO ALL THE OTHERS OUT THERE THING ABOUT THIS ????
> >
> > As you already indicated there is little reaction of others on this
> > subject. I already tended to email directly to some of the more active
> > contributors in c.l.l. ... With all the discussions in other threads
> > going on on language extensions I thought that the interest in "fighting
> > this out" in a direct discussion would be of interest to the buddies
> > here.
> >
> > SO AGAIN - WHAT DO THE OTHERS OUT THERE THINK OF IT ?
>
> I would love to see such a conference next year, either in Europe/Boston
> or in the USA.
>
> It would be great to have such a conference at the same time and location
> as the annual conferences of the commercial vendors. :-)
A Lisp conference should and would *include* the vendors.
"Two conferences at the same time/location" make no sense.
There is no reservation against including the vendors.
Franz would support it, as I hear. We need more support
to make it happen - from all the vendors and users.
--
Rainer Joswig, Hamburg, Germany
Email: ·············@corporate-world.lisp.de
Web: http://corporate-world.lisp.de/
From: Reini Urban
Subject: Re: Lisp conference in 2001 ?
Date:
Message-ID: <3a290dbb.963481232@judy>
Frank Goenninger wrote:
>With all the topics of your proposal I think such a conference is
>crucial for "spreading the news" of Lisp being a real alternative in
>implementations.
>
>WHAT DO ALL THE OTHERS OUT THERE THING ABOUT THIS ????
this argument not convincing for me.
>As you already indicated there is little reaction of others on this
>subject. I already tended to email directly to some of the more active
>contributors in c.l.l. ... With all the discussions in other threads
>going on on language extensions I thought that the interest in "fighting
>this out" in a direct discussion would be of interest to the buddies
>here.
>
>SO AGAIN - WHAT DO THE OTHERS OUT THERE THINK OF IT ?
German LUGM. when? where?
I would come. But just to get my brain rewashed.
--
Reini Urban
http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/news/faq/autolisp.html
From: Frank Goenninger
Subject: Re: Lisp conference in 2001 ?
Date:
Message-ID: <3A293AF7.C0844573@hp.com>
Reini,
good point...
Reini Urban wrote:
>
> Frank Goenninger wrote:
> >With all the topics of your proposal I think such a conference is
[stuff deleted]
> I would come. But just to get my brain rewashed.
Hm, just to get the brain _rewashed_. This is a valid point - we do not
need to convince Lispers of Lisp. We need to convince the others...
How to achieve this? (Yes, this is an invitation to a brainstorming
session ! ;-)
My first thoughts include:
1. Tell about it in Java environment:
- newsgroups
- web sites
- magazines (which ones are the best in Java world? Which the best in
professional IT?)
- other publications
2. Tell it to decision makers in the industry:
This has to be real good. Could somebody come up with an "elevator
pitch" !!??
- It has to include some numbers
- It should also include some marketing buzzwords
- A few pictures would be nice!
Put all this together and send it to decision makers. Take a phone
and call everyone.
3. Tell about it in educational institutions:
- Lisp as the first one (programming language)
Ok - this is a weak argument. But: If some talented and knowledgeable
people could go on-site _in person_ I'm convinced this will help.
4. Simple and straight marketing
Any further ideas? _Thanks a lot !!!_
Regards,
#:frgo
--
Frank Goenninger
HP Consulting, Product Lifecycle Collaboration Services
Hewlett-Packard GmbH, Germany
for contact details see: http://ecardfile.com/id/frank_goenninger
--