From: Jochen Schmidt
Subject: Common Lisp Article in the November-Issue of the german Toolbox-Magazine
Date:
Message-ID: <8tu7d0$8mo9$1@ID-22205.news.dfncis.de>
It might be of interest to you, that there are two articles on Common Lisp
in the november issue (9. November) of the "Toolbox-Magazine" (a popular
german magazine for professional softwaredevelopers).
The articles are written by me - Jochen Schmidt - and its my first time
of publishing something in a magazine (so be patient please).
Most of you will already know the facts given in the article, but I hope
you'll find it interesting nevertheless.
On the compact disc are packages of CLISP, CMUCL and Lispworks.
(My thanks go to the maintainers of the free projects and particlularily
to Xanalys which made it possible to publish Lispworks with the Toolbox)
I also want to thank Dr. Herbert Stoyan from the University in Erlangen for
providing me with the historical facts upon Lisp.
Regards,
Jochen
···@dataheaven.de
From: ······@corporate-world.lisp.de
Subject: Re: Common Lisp Article in the November-Issue of the german Toolbox-Magazine
Date:
Message-ID: <8tv95s$vmp$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
In article <·············@ID-22205.news.dfncis.de>,
Jochen Schmidt <···@dataheaven.de> wrote:
> It might be of interest to you, that there are two articles on Common Lisp
> in the november issue (9. November) of the "Toolbox-Magazine" (a popular
> german magazine for professional softwaredevelopers).
Cool!!
Btw., you also may want to look at the upcoming december edition
of the german "Linux Magazin". The author (not me) plans a whole
series on Scheme, Lisp and Emacs programming.
Rainer Joswig
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
From: Jochen Schmidt
Subject: Re: Common Lisp Article in the November-Issue of the german Toolbox-Magazine
Date:
Message-ID: <8tvd4r$cmgf$1@ID-22205.news.dfncis.de>
······@corporate-world.lisp.de wrote:
> In article <·············@ID-22205.news.dfncis.de>,
> Jochen Schmidt <···@dataheaven.de> wrote:
> > It might be of interest to you, that there are two articles on Common
> > Lisp in the november issue (9. November) of the "Toolbox-Magazine" (a
> > popular german magazine for professional softwaredevelopers).
>
> Cool!!
>
> Btw., you also may want to look at the upcoming december edition
> of the german "Linux Magazin". The author (not me) plans a whole
> series on Scheme, Lisp and Emacs programming.
Thanks I will look for it :-)
Btw. in the next Toolbox Issue (Jan. 2001) I will publish another article on
Common Lisp. It should be a small but useful coding-project.
Do you have any suggestions what I can use:
It should
a) Show the strong sides of Common Lisp
b) Understandable by CL-Newbies
c) Short (long) enough to fit (fill) exactly one article of ~4 pages
Regards,
Jochen Schmidt
In article <·············@ID-22205.news.dfncis.de>, Jochen Schmidt
<···@dataheaven.de> wrote:
> Thanks I will look for it :-)
Can you give us a quick overview of your articles? Do youo
give a general Common Lisp introduction?
> Btw. in the next Toolbox Issue (Jan. 2001) I will publish another article on
> Common Lisp.
> It should be a small but useful coding-project.
Hmm...
> Do you have any suggestions what I can use:
>
> It should
> a) Show the strong sides of Common Lisp
> b) Understandable by CL-Newbies
> c) Short (long) enough to fit (fill) exactly one article of ~4 pages
Is it for Unix, Windows or Mac?
some topics:
- GUI programming
-- simple image processing example
-- generating graphic designs, fractals, ...
-- forms generation
- network programming
-- small CL-HTTP example (guestbook, chat server, ...)
-- POP3 client
-- SMTP client, sending mails from CL
-- NNTP client, reading news
-- receive/transfer of Lisp data over a network connection
- parsing
-- a small parser for some config or log file
-- demonstrate "natural language" access to a database
-- parse Web server logs and generate statistics overviews
-- parse Web server logs and generate a visitor overview
--
Rainer Joswig, Hamburg, Germany
Email: ·············@corporate-world.lisp.de
Web: http://corporate-world.lisp.de/
From: Jochen Schmidt
Subject: Re: Common Lisp Article in the November-Issue of the german Toolbox-Magazine
Date:
Message-ID: <8tvtpn$ccnr$1@ID-22205.news.dfncis.de>
Rainer Joswig wrote:
> In article <·············@ID-22205.news.dfncis.de>, Jochen Schmidt
> <···@dataheaven.de> wrote:
>
> > Thanks I will look for it :-)
>
> Can you give us a quick overview of your articles? Do youo
> give a general Common Lisp introduction?
The first article "Common Lisp - die erweiterbare Sprache" (for the English
speaking readers: "Common Lisp - the expandable Language")
discusses the possible new role of a language like Common Lisp nowadays.
I talk a little bit on the origin of Lisp itself, showing the many
language-concepts that was invented for and with Lisp.
Then I present a variant of the well known 10 Myths upon Common Lisp".
I talk upon the dynamic capabilities of the language and the consequences
for the normal process of software-development. (Interactive/Inkremental
development, explorative programming, prototyping, changes at runtime).
I have used NASAs Mars-Pathfinder Project as an example for successful
usage of Common Lisp in the industry.
The second article in the november-issue "Die Qual der Wahl"
(eng.: "The agony of selection") discusses and compares six different (free
and commercial) Lisp-Systems (ACL,CLISP,CMUCL,CormanLisp,Lispworks,MCL)
> > Do you have any suggestions what I can use:
> >
> > It should
> > a) Show the strong sides of Common Lisp
> > b) Understandable by CL-Newbies
> > c) Short (long) enough to fit (fill) exactly one article of ~4 pages
>
> Is it for Unix, Windows or Mac?
Cross-Plattform (at the best ;-)
> some topics:
>
> - GUI programming
The lack of a unique toolkit makes this point difficult.
I could use CLIM but it is only usable with the commercial
Lisps.
> -- simple image processing example
hm... I'm working on a GUI-Tool as homework for interactivley showing
Spline/Bezier/Hermite/Newton-Interpolations. You can
create and draw e. g. a spline and then drag/add/delete it's
fixpoints... (using free Lispworks CAPI-Toolkit)
>
> -- generating graphic designs, fractals, ...
I've written a Mandelbrot-generator some time ago in CMUCL (with full
declarations on ;-)
but I think I've lost the source *hmpf*
> -- forms generation
>
> - network programming
I've written an IRC-Bot in Common Lisp. At it's end it was very huge and
complex. (Multithreaded, Full user/channel-maintenance, message-content
dependend specialization of Message-Classes, maintenance-port via telnet)
I plan to write a new one that targets on a more simple approach.
This could really be a good example for the article...what do you think?
> -- small CL-HTTP example (guestbook, chat server, ...)
Hm... I would use IMHO ;-)
> -- POP3 client
I've written a simple pop3 client package for Common Lisp some time ago.
Since then I planned to extend it by a rfc822 capable parser, MIME-handling
Base64 etc. ...
> -- SMTP client, sending mails from CL
Yes this would be simple too.
> -- NNTP client, reading news
This sounds interesting too, but I have not much experience with NNTP...
>
> -- receive/transfer of Lisp data over a network connection
could be a part of the later program...
> - parsing
could be a part too...
> -- demonstrate "natural language" access to a database
I've some (really ugly) code examples to this in "Common Lisp Modules" (by
Tom Watson I think...)
> -- parse Web server logs and generate statistics overviews
>
> -- parse Web server logs and generate a visitor overview
could be interesting too - showing that Lisp is much better than other
languages for dynamic-html.
Thank you for your help.
Regards,
Jochen Schmidt
In article <·············@ID-22205.news.dfncis.de>, Jochen Schmidt
<···@dataheaven.de> wrote:
> The first article "Common Lisp - die erweiterbare Sprache" (for the English
> speaking readers: "Common Lisp - the expandable Language")
> discusses the possible new role of a language like Common Lisp nowadays.
> I talk a little bit on the origin of Lisp itself, showing the many
> language-concepts that was invented for and with Lisp.
> Then I present a variant of the well known 10 Myths upon Common Lisp".
> I talk upon the dynamic capabilities of the language and the consequences
> for the normal process of software-development. (Interactive/Inkremental
> development, explorative programming, prototyping, changes at runtime).
> I have used NASAs Mars-Pathfinder Project as an example for successful
> usage of Common Lisp in the industry.
>
> The second article in the november-issue "Die Qual der Wahl"
> (eng.: "The agony of selection") discusses and compares six different (free
> and commercial) Lisp-Systems (ACL,CLISP,CMUCL,CormanLisp,Lispworks,MCL)
Sounds interesting.
> I've written a Mandelbrot-generator some time ago in CMUCL (with full
> declarations on ;-)
> but I think I've lost the source *hmpf*
I guess several people can help out. ;-)
> > - network programming
>
> I've written an IRC-Bot in Common Lisp. At it's end it was very huge and
> complex. (Multithreaded, Full user/channel-maintenance, message-content
> dependend specialization of Message-Classes, maintenance-port via telnet)
> I plan to write a new one that targets on a more simple approach.
> This could really be a good example for the article...what do you think?
Yes. Put in a natural language generation system. Only joking. ;-)
> > -- small CL-HTTP example (guestbook, chat server, ...)
>
> Hm... I would use IMHO ;-)
CL-HTTP comes with several small examples. It's really easy to
write such things.
See for example the directory
"http:mcl;contrib;bsinclair;chat;"
in your CL-HTTP distribution.
"http:mcl;contrib;mtravers;cl-http-graphics;" shows how to create
fractals via the web server.
Another example is a URL reminder service, etc.
> > -- POP3 client
>
> I've written a simple pop3 client package for Common Lisp some time ago.
> Since then I planned to extend it by a rfc822 capable parser, MIME-handling
> Base64 etc. ...
CL-HTTP has one, too.
> > -- SMTP client, sending mails from CL
>
> Yes this would be simple too.
CL-HTTP has it, too.
> > -- NNTP client, reading news
>
> This sounds interesting too, but I have not much experience with NNTP...
MCL comes with simple example. I have a copy of the news reader
Hermes (CLIM + CL) somewhere.
> > -- demonstrate "natural language" access to a database
>
> I've some (really ugly) code examples to this in "Common Lisp Modules" (by
> Tom Watson I think...)
Check out the example in Winston/Horn "Lisp".
> > -- parse Web server logs and generate statistics overviews
> >
> > -- parse Web server logs and generate a visitor overview
>
> could be interesting too - showing that Lisp is much better than other
> languages for dynamic-html.
--
Rainer Joswig, Hamburg, Germany
Email: ·············@corporate-world.lisp.de
Web: http://corporate-world.lisp.de/
From: Paolo Amoroso
Subject: Re: Common Lisp Article in the November-Issue of the german Toolbox-Magazine
Date:
Message-ID: <QzYEOkwEVWEPNE3PVmU+c6cDDxcI@4ax.com>
On Fri, 3 Nov 2000 23:14:02 +0100, Jochen Schmidt <···@dataheaven.de>
wrote:
> Btw. in the next Toolbox Issue (Jan. 2001) I will publish another article on
> Common Lisp. It should be a small but useful coding-project.
>
> Do you have any suggestions what I can use:
Since the title of your article mentions the fact that Lisp is an
expandable language, the coding project could be a "little" little language
or domain-specific language.
Examples of the former are scsh's AWK and process notations. You may check
the paper "A Universal Scripting Framework or Lambda: the ultimate `little
language'" by Olin Shivers, available at the scsh site:
http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/ftpdir/scsh/
Here is an example of a paper illustrating a domain-specific language with
Lisp-like syntax:
"Verischemelog: Verilog Embedded in Scheme"
James Jennings, Eric Beuscher
Proceedings of the 2nd Conference on Domain-Specific Languages (DSL '99)
AGM SIGPLAN Notices, vol. 35, n. 1, January 2000; page 123
http://www.eecs.tulane.edu/www/Jennings
Paolo
--
EncyCMUCLopedia * Extensive collection of CMU Common Lisp documentation
http://cvs2.cons.org:8000/cmucl/doc/EncyCMUCLopedia/
From: Friedrich Dominicus
Subject: Re: Common Lisp Article in the November-Issue of the german Toolbox-Magazine
Date:
Message-ID: <87n1fgrzv9.fsf@frown.here>
Jochen Schmidt <···@dataheaven.de> writes:
> >
> > Btw., you also may want to look at the upcoming december edition
> > of the german "Linux Magazin". The author (not me) plans a whole
> > series on Scheme, Lisp and Emacs programming.
>
> Thanks I will look for it :-)
Now that it is public knowns, I'm suprised by reactions on articles
written in German the pretentious author of that series is me. I'm not
a "fully-blown" Lisp Programmer (just trying to reach that point).
But I do not think that it will be too worse because Rainer
will help me, that the do not hurt better Lisp programmers ;-)
It's more to introduce people to a different point of view on
programming. I've tried something simular with Eiffel the last year. I
guess the articled were quite ok, they do not have thrown me out the
magazine untimly. IIRC that were around 6 or so articles up to 10
pages each.
I guess the first article about Common Lisp is within the next 4
months or so. Emacs will be handeled independendly from the
Scheme-Common Lisp stuff.
Of course if you have some things you do think should be mentioned,
feel free to contact me.
Regards
Friedrich
--
for e-mail reply remove all after .com
From: Paolo Amoroso
Subject: Re: Common Lisp Article in the November-Issue of the german Toolbox-Magazine
Date:
Message-ID: <RToEOpYdgL7oKowLJ0GMMHLIqYuw@4ax.com>
On 04 Nov 2000 07:54:34 +0100, Friedrich Dominicus
<·····@q-software-solutions.com> wrote:
> Now that it is public knowns, I'm suprised by reactions on articles
> written in German the pretentious author of that series is me. I'm not
Let us know what kind of feedback you get from readers. Best wishes,
Paolo
--
EncyCMUCLopedia * Extensive collection of CMU Common Lisp documentation
http://cvs2.cons.org:8000/cmucl/doc/EncyCMUCLopedia/
From: Jochen Schmidt
Subject: Re: Common Lisp Article in the November-Issue of the german Toolbox-Magazine
Date:
Message-ID: <8u1e7c$gt5j$1@ID-22205.news.dfncis.de>
Friedrich Dominicus wrote:
> Jochen Schmidt <···@dataheaven.de> writes:
>
> > >
> > > Btw., you also may want to look at the upcoming december edition
> > > of the german "Linux Magazin". The author (not me) plans a whole
> > > series on Scheme, Lisp and Emacs programming.
> >
> > Thanks I will look for it :-)
>
> Now that it is public knowns, I'm suprised by reactions on articles
> written in German the pretentious author of that series is me. I'm not
> a "fully-blown" Lisp Programmer (just trying to reach that point).
> But I do not think that it will be too worse because Rainer
> will help me, that the do not hurt better Lisp programmers ;-)
I would recommend you to read e. g. at least "OnLisp" by Paul Graham, as
it opens a whole new world of thinking to the language.
(I fear many of the thoughts I've written out in my articles are heavy
influenced by this incredible book.)
I would not say that I'm somewhat like a "Lisp-God" or so but I think I've
understand the most parts of it. It's my favorite language now and I
realize more and more that I think in a increasingly "Lispy" style.
Short: It's a virus that hits fast and will infect you for the rest of your
life.
>
> It's more to introduce people to a different point of view on
> programming. I've tried something simular with Eiffel the last year. I
> guess the articled were quite ok, they do not have thrown me out the
> magazine untimly. IIRC that were around 6 or so articles up to 10
> pages each.
Is it only my view or am I true if I realize that the world is more and
more leaving the "global standard" languages like C/C++ and are searching
for alternatives? Am I right in my view that many "old" languages have
somewhat like a revival since ca. one to two years?
>
> I guess the first article about Common Lisp is within the next 4
> months or so. Emacs will be handeled independendly from the
> Scheme-Common Lisp stuff.
Will it be a tutorial/introduction or something similar?
> Of course if you have some things you do think should be mentioned,
> feel free to contact me.
Same counts for you - feel free to ask me if you have questions perhaps I
may help you.
It would be interesting for me to hear your opinion if you have read my
articles - Please feel free to post your critics to the newsgroup I have
nothing to hide.
What would be of more interest to you as an little programming-project
(size of an article) :
- An IRC-Bot
- POP3-Client
- Interactive graphical spline-interpolation tool
- something completely different namely ...
Regards,
Jochen
From: Erik Naggum
Subject: Re: Common Lisp Article in the November-Issue of the german Toolbox-Magazine
Date:
Message-ID: <3182355690531986@naggum.net>
* Jochen Schmidt <···@dataheaven.de>
| Short: It's a virus that hits fast and will infect you for the rest
| of your life.
This is true, but it's supposed to be a secret, so I hope you didn't
write this in your article. Most people think being infected by a
higher intelligence is Very Scary. :)
| Is it only my view or am I true if I realize that the world is more
| and more leaving the "global standard" languages like C/C++ and are
| searching for alternatives? Am I right in my view that many "old"
| languages have somewhat like a revival since ca. one to two years?
It is not only your view, but I'm still not sure it's true...
#:Erik
--
Does anyone remember where I parked Air Force One?
-- George W. Bush
From: Friedrich Dominicus
Subject: Re: Common Lisp Article in the November-Issue of the german Toolbox-Magazine
Date:
Message-ID: <87n1fec18m.fsf@frown.here>
Jochen Schmidt <···@dataheaven.de> writes:
> Friedrich Dominicus wrote:
>
> > Jochen Schmidt <···@dataheaven.de> writes:
> >
> > > >
> > > > Btw., you also may want to look at the upcoming december edition
> > > > of the german "Linux Magazin". The author (not me) plans a whole
> > > > series on Scheme, Lisp and Emacs programming.
> > >
> > > Thanks I will look for it :-)
> >
> > Now that it is public knowns, I'm suprised by reactions on articles
> > written in German the pretentious author of that series is me. I'm not
> > a "fully-blown" Lisp Programmer (just trying to reach that point).
> > But I do not think that it will be too worse because Rainer
> > will help me, that the do not hurt better Lisp programmers ;-)
>
> I would recommend you to read e. g. at least "OnLisp" by Paul Graham, as
> it opens a whole new world of thinking to the language.
I agree, I have read this book more than once ;-)
>
> Short: It's a virus that hits fast and will infect you for the rest of your
> life.
Holds for me too ;-)
>
>
> >
> > It's more to introduce people to a different point of view on
> > programming. I've tried something simular with Eiffel the last year. I
> > guess the articled were quite ok, they do not have thrown me out the
> > magazine untimly. IIRC that were around 6 or so articles up to 10
> > pages each.
>
> Is it only my view or am I true if I realize that the world is more and
> more leaving the "global standard" languages like C/C++ and are searching
> for alternatives?
I do not think so. Some people tell me you can't be serious all the
world is using xxx not Eiffel or ....
> Am I right in my view that many "old" languages have
> somewhat like a revival since ca. one to two years?
To call Eiffel old is way out of line. Eiffel is 15 years old so a
teenager in comparison to Lisp ;-)
>
> >
> > I guess the first article about Common Lisp is within the next 4
> > months or so. Emacs will be handeled independendly from the
> > Scheme-Common Lisp stuff.
>
> Will it be a tutorial/introduction or something similar?
I'm not totally sure yet. I would think it should be a tutorial and
lead to more ambigous fields. Setting up diverse packages, small
helpers etc ...
>
> > Of course if you have some things you do think should be mentioned,
> > feel free to contact me.
>
> Same counts for you - feel free to ask me if you have questions perhaps I
> may help you.
> It would be interesting for me to hear your opinion if you have read my
> articles - Please feel free to post your critics to the newsgroup I have
> nothing to hide.
I'll see if I can get a copy of the Toolbox Magazine.
>
> What would be of more interest to you as an little programming-project
> (size of an article) :
>
> - An IRC-Bot
> - POP3-Client
> - Interactive graphical spline-interpolation tool
> - something completely different namely ...
Maybe, just I see this series more to give people a feeling for Lisp,
I tried something simular with the Eiffel articles. The language one
uses has IMH a very high influence on how the solutions looks like. If
you don't have objects you hardly will build some Hierachies, if you
do not have first class functions, you can't paramatrize things. If
you cannot extend the language you have to roll out your own. ....
Friedrich
--
for e-mail reply remove all after .com
From: Jochen Schmidt
Subject: Re: Common Lisp Article in the November-Issue of the german Toolbox-Magazine
Date:
Message-ID: <8tu7u7$83s8$1@ID-22205.news.dfncis.de>
Jochen Schmidt wrote:
> It might be of interest to you, that there are two articles on Common Lisp
> in the november issue (9. November) of the "Toolbox-Magazine" (a popular
> german magazine for professional softwaredevelopers).
>
> The articles are written by me - Jochen Schmidt - and its my first time
> of publishing something in a magazine (so be patient please).
>
> Most of you will already know the facts given in the article, but I hope
> you'll find it interesting nevertheless.
>
> On the compact disc are packages of CLISP, CMUCL and Lispworks.
> (My thanks go to the maintainers of the free projects and particlularily
> to Xanalys which made it possible to publish Lispworks with the Toolbox)
>
> I also want to thank Dr. Herbert Stoyan from the University in Erlangen
> for providing me with the historical facts upon Lisp.
And not to forget: I also want to thank Wolfgang Hofig of Franz Inc. who
inspired me by good ideas and the actual information upon ACL6.
>
> Regards,
> Jochen
> ···@dataheaven.de
>
--
From: Paolo Amoroso
Subject: Re: Common Lisp Article in the November-Issue of the german Toolbox-Magazine
Date:
Message-ID: <OjIDOqNx0=9c13blwgp1JaJ6pGf2@4ax.com>
On Fri, 3 Nov 2000 13:29:59 +0100, Jochen Schmidt <···@dataheaven.de>
wrote:
> It might be of interest to you, that there are two articles on Common Lisp
> in the november issue (9. November) of the "Toolbox-Magazine" (a popular
> german magazine for professional softwaredevelopers).
What kind of feedback are you getting from readers?
Paolo
--
EncyCMUCLopedia * Extensive collection of CMU Common Lisp documentation
http://cvs2.cons.org:8000/cmucl/doc/EncyCMUCLopedia/
From: Jochen Schmidt
Subject: Re: Common Lisp Article in the November-Issue of the german Toolbox-Magazine
Date:
Message-ID: <8u1d7o$esgc$1@ID-22205.news.dfncis.de>
Paolo Amoroso wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Nov 2000 13:29:59 +0100, Jochen Schmidt <···@dataheaven.de>
> wrote:
>
> > It might be of interest to you, that there are two articles on Common
> > Lisp in the november issue (9. November) of the "Toolbox-Magazine" (a
> > popular german magazine for professional softwaredevelopers).
>
> What kind of feedback are you getting from readers?
Nothing yet as the magazine is coming on 9. November but I think I will
share my experience with the group here.
Regards
Jochen Schmidt