Hello All,
I am starting to learn LISP, but was wondering if anyone could give me
any advice on the best computing environment to proceed. Is it best to
spend money on one of the compilers or does the shareware/freeware
available on the net function just the same? Is it best to work under a
windows or unix platform? Does this make any difference anyway?
I've read some websites but I'm a bit bewildered as to what software is
the most recommended and what would provide the mose robust environment
for me to continue hacking. Any help would be appreciated.
yours
Melissa Terras
Engineering Science
Oxford University
mel terras <···@robots.ox.ac.uk> writes:
> Hello All,
>
> I am starting to learn LISP, but was wondering if anyone could give me
> any advice on the best computing environment to proceed. Is it best to
> spend money on one of the compilers or does the shareware/freeware
> available on the net function just the same? Is it best to work under a
> windows or unix platform? Does this make any difference anyway?
>
> I've read some websites but I'm a bit bewildered as to what software is
> the most recommended and what would provide the mose robust environment
> for me to continue hacking. Any help would be appreciated.
As a starter setup, you could try a Linux distribution wich allways
comes with EMACS and elisp.
Apart from that you could install CLISP or CMU-LISP in combination with
ILISP/EMACS.
Emacs is THE lisp editor written in lisp.
As to hardware: any 486 with 16 MB memory and up, but preferred is any
Pentium with at least 32 Mb, so you could use the X-window environment.
Aopart from the hardware , all the programs (linux) are mostly free of
charge if you download them (up 600 MB) or you could buy a
distribution-CD from a dealer or your local Oxford Linux usergroup at:
http://www.comlab.ox.ac.uk/archive/ox/maps.html
cor
--
/*#include<rumor.h> Everything is relative.........even that */
/* If GNU/LINUX has no solution, you'v got the wrong problem */
/* Never install Slackware.........You might learn something */
/* ······@amsat.org http://utopia.knoware.nl/users/ccgestjr */
mel terras <···@robots.ox.ac.uk> writes:
> Hello All,
>
> I am starting to learn LISP, but was wondering if anyone could give me
> any advice on the best computing environment to proceed. Is it best to
> spend money on one of the compilers or does the shareware/freeware
> available on the net function just the same? Is it best to work under a
> windows or unix platform? Does this make any difference anyway?
>
> I've read some websites but I'm a bit bewildered as to what software is
> the most recommended and what would provide the mose robust environment
> for me to continue hacking. Any help would be appreciated.
>
I guess you want to learn Common Lisp. If yes you can download
test-versions of Compilers and/or IDEs for Common Lisp from
www.xanalys.com (Lispworks)
www.franz.com (Allegro CL)
There is too available (on Unices I guess) CMUCL and CLISP
Now I nearly exclusivly work with Linux. But for learning Common Lisp
it may be not so important. But if you advance you may want to have
programming tools at hand, I guess in that case Unices are quite a
better choice.
Regards
Friedrich
In article <·················@robots.ox.ac.uk>,
mel terras <···@robots.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>I am starting to learn LISP, but was wondering if anyone could give me
>any advice on the best computing environment to proceed. Is it best to
>spend money on one of the compilers or does the shareware/freeware
>available on the net function just the same? Is it best to work under a
>windows or unix platform? Does this make any difference anyway?
I think it's essential that you get some experience with a Common Lisp
implementation with a built-in compiler. The only open-source version
that compiles directly to machine code, to my knowledge, is CMUCL. Both
Franz and Xanalysis (sp?, formerly Harlequin) offer free trial versions
of their professional CL implementations.
But allow me to suggest Macintosh Common Lisp from Digitool
(www.digitool.com), which obviously runs on Macintosh computers. There
is a free trialware version, which runs for 15 minutes at a time then
exits. This should be enough to give you a good feel for what it can
do. By default, MCL compiles every expression as it is typed.
I have used all three of the commercial implementations above in my
work, and currently own a personal copy of MCL. I haven't had much
experience with the others.
If it matters, I'm paying Digitool, not the other way around.
-- Chuck
--
Chuck Fry -- Jack of all trades, master of none
······@chucko.com (text only please) ········@home.com (MIME enabled)
Lisp bigot, car nut, photographer, sometime guitarist and mountain biker
The addresses above are real. All spammers will be reported to their ISPs.
From: Tim Bradshaw
Subject: Re: environments for learning LISP
Date:
Message-ID: <ey38zx62k2x.fsf@cley.com>
* Chuck Fry wrote:
> I think it's essential that you get some experience with a Common Lisp
> implementation with a built-in compiler. The only open-source version
> that compiles directly to machine code, to my knowledge, is CMUCL. Both
> Franz and Xanalysis (sp?, formerly Harlequin) offer free trial versions
> of their professional CL implementations.
I think (?) that corman lisp does too.
--tim
Tim Bradshaw wrote:
>
> * Chuck Fry wrote:
>
> > I think it's essential that you get some experience with a Common Lisp
> > implementation with a built-in compiler. The only open-source version
> > that compiles directly to machine code, to my knowledge, is CMUCL. Both
> > Franz and Xanalysis (sp?, formerly Harlequin) offer free trial versions
> > of their professional CL implementations.
>
> I think (?) that corman lisp does too.
It should have a compiler, as it does not use an interpreter :-)
Robert
I think that the best environment for learning Lisp would be Macintosh
Common Lisp. That would mean using neither Windows nor Unix. It would
also entail some cost to you for the environment.
As a second choice, I would suggest either Franz' Allegro or the
ex-Harlquin Lispworks. Both have free versions available for both
Windows and Unix (at least I think Lispworks has a free unix version).
As far as choosing between unix or windows, I would go with whatever OS
you are most comfortable with, since it shouldn't matter to the Lisp
compiler itself.
--
Thomas A. Russ, USC/Information Sciences Institute ···@isi.edu
* mel terras <···@robots.ox.ac.uk>
| I am starting to learn LISP, but was wondering if anyone could give
| me any advice on the best computing environment to proceed. Is it
| best to spend money on one of the compilers or does the shareware/
| freeware available on the net function just the same? Is it best to
| work under a windows or unix platform? Does this make any
| difference anyway?
Here's how I started. Having grown up with real computers� and very
comfortable with the Unix world, I found myself exploring Common
Lisp using CMUCL and GNU Emacs after a very painful project that
tried to switch from C to C++ in mid-flight. I already knew Emacs
Lisp well, and had been working on and with the Emacs environment
for many years. (If you have a similarly known environment, don't
move out of it.) After a while, I thought I had become fluent in
Common Lisp, but got my hands on Allegro CL, and discovered to my
shock and horror that being fluent in Common Lisp without a serious
environment is like being fluent in C without Unix. I thought CMUCL
was great, but it is limiting in what it does to your belief in what
is doable and practical in Common Lisp. Programming in Common Lisp
as per the standard lets you do lots of cool stuff with real-world
applicability. (This is different from C, incidentally.) However,
once you get a real Common Lisp environment, you learn that there is
very little point in _limiting_ yourself to the standard and what is
"portable", a belief held by many proponents of "free" tools. The
idea hit me that I am not really locked into a particular tool, but
I _am_ locked into whatever I'm doing with the tool. This freed me
to explore the tool exactly the same way I had explored Unix and
Emacs earlier. However, _something_ in Common Lisp has a tendency
to reduce this desire to explore. Perhaps the language is too good
and needs so much exploring on its own you don't think you need to
explore anything more, but it doesn't come with an environment like
Emacs Lisp, C, Perl, Java, etc, so it may be natural to think of the
language sort of in isolation. This is so hurtful to Common Lisp!
Now, fortunately, you don't have to spend money on any of the
commercial compilers if you choose the right environment: They all
come in somewhat limited free versions, but the limitations are
designed not to limit _you_ while you're learning Common Lisp. I
prefer Allegro Common Lisp from Franz Inc, but others may prefer
Lispworks from Harlequin (now Xanalys).
| I've read some websites but I'm a bit bewildered as to what software
| is the most recommended and what would provide the mose robust
| environment for me to continue hacking.
Thanks for using the work "hacking" correctly. Incidentally, the
spelling "LISP" is dated -- it used to be the typewriter version of
small capitals used for acronyms. Modern spelling of Lisp follows
that of Unix (which used to be written UNIX for the same reason).
#:Erik
-------
� DEC-10 with TOPS-10, and later DEC-20 with TOPS-20.
--
If this is not what you expected, please alter your expectations.
Thanks for all your help, its been very informative, and I'm now well on my
way....
mel
mel terras wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I am starting to learn LISP, but was wondering if anyone could give me
> any advice on the best computing environment to proceed. Is it best to
> spend money on one of the compilers or does the shareware/freeware
> available on the net function just the same? Is it best to work under a
> windows or unix platform? Does this make any difference anyway?
>
> I've read some websites but I'm a bit bewildered as to what software is
> the most recommended and what would provide the mose robust environment
> for me to continue hacking. Any help would be appreciated.
>
> yours
>
> Melissa Terras
> Engineering Science
> Oxford University