I have never used CLIM and I would like to purchase a version of Lisp
that has good support for this windowing system. I would be using this
to learn CLIM and possibly for commercial applications. ACL is out due
to its price structure.
Is this implementation of CLIM stable? How good is the implementation
of Lisp itself? Is it portable to LWW? Is there anything I should know
before making the purchase?
Thanks in advance,
--
Kenneth P. Turvey <······@SprocketShop.com>
--------------------------------------------
Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced
with surprising effectiveness. A genuinely unfashionable opinion is
almost never given a fair hearing. -- George Orwell
······@SprocketShop.com (Kenneth P. Turvey) writes:
> I have never used CLIM and I would like to purchase a version of Lisp
> that has good support for this windowing system. I would be using this
> to learn CLIM and possibly for commercial applications. ACL is out due
> to its price structure.
Don't understand what you want to akw.
>
> Is this implementation of CLIM stable?
which implementation are you talking off? It can't be ACL because you
won't use it.
> How good is the implementation
> of Lisp itself?
Again what implementation?
> Is it portable to LWW? Is there anything I should know
> before making the purchase?
What do you want to buy?
The only thing I can say to that question is, that I have contacted
Harlequin and Franz for buying a Lisp. I got immediate feedback and
was contacted but both prices were IMHO to that time too hight to just
try. I waited a bit and now Lispworks was getting much cheaper
(prof. Version at around $800 or so, and so I got that version. CLIM
is included there.
Regards
Friedrich
On 18 May 2000 07:17:09 +0200, Friedrich Dominicus
<···················@inka.de> wrote:
>which implementation are you talking off? It can't be ACL because you
>won't use it.
>> How good is the implementation
>> of Lisp itself?
>Again what implementation?
Take a look at the subject line. ;-)
//-----------------------------------------------
// Fernando Rodriguez Romero
//
// frr at mindless dot com
//------------------------------------------------
> >Again what implementation?
>
> Take a look at the subject line. ;-)
Ah, I see, sorry. But I guess I answered your question.
But here my first impressions
- partly good documentation, (not totally up-to-date, check e.g CAPI stuff
which won't work the way they introduced it, no docs for the Interface
builder, do not found anything on how to use Emacs with it. Ilisp
should work but I do not know how.)
- runs relativly smoothless on Linux libc 2.1.2
- Have found one bug (not filed a bug-report yet but if I guess I can
reproduce that error)
- nice environment, Editor used the keystrokes I know from Emacs,
names are different and IMO not really better, just different
- it's a very large application, so I just scratch the surface, but
I'm quite happy with it.
Regards
Friedrich
Hello Kenneth,
I just acquired LispWorks Pro (but for Windows) a few months
ago, and it is generally awesome. CLIM support seems great, but
I have not done much with CLIM except for playing with the
examples. Mostly, I just enjoy having a high quality Common LISP
development environment. I have had no problems at all with LWP,
and the working environment is great (basically, enhanced Emacs).
Anyway, the Windows version works great, so hopefully the
Linux version works well also (I hope to acquire a Linux license
also by the end of the year, so I would be interested in hearing
your comments if you get LWP for Linux).
-Mark Watson
-Personal: www.markwatson.com www.knowledgebooks.com
-Professional affiliation: www.intelligenesis.net
In article <·····················@pug1.sprocketshop.com>,
······@SprocketShop.com (Kenneth P. Turvey) wrote:
> I have never used CLIM and I would like to purchase a version of Lisp
> that has good support for this windowing system. I would be using
this
> to learn CLIM and possibly for commercial applications. ACL is out
due
> to its price structure.
>
> Is this implementation of CLIM stable? How good is the implementation
> of Lisp itself? Is it portable to LWW? Is there anything I should
know
> before making the purchase?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> --
> Kenneth P. Turvey <······@SprocketShop.com>
> --------------------------------------------
> Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself
silenced
> with surprising effectiveness. A genuinely unfashionable opinion is
> almost never given a fair hearing. -- George Orwell
>
--
Mark Watson www.markwatson.com
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Well, I have just experience with the windows version,
but:
The product is generally pretty good, but the documentation
is only so-so. Their own GUI layer's documentation is
very inadequate, so CLIM may be the way to go with this
product. The CLIM package seems pretty large, so it may
add considerably to the shipped image, maybe not. I have
to try this. Their help is very good and responsive.
They claim excellent portability between windows and linux.
You can look at the free trial version to verify some of these
issues ( but not the CLIM portability issue ).
dave
On Thu, 18 May 2000 13:28:41 -0600, David Hanley <···@ncgr.org> wrote:
>
>Well, I have just experience with the windows version,
>but:
>
>The product is generally pretty good, but the documentation
>is only so-so. Their own GUI layer's documentation is
>very inadequate, so CLIM may be the way to go with this
>product. The CLIM package seems pretty large, so it may
>add considerably to the shipped image, maybe not. I have
>to try this. Their help is very good and responsive.
>
>They claim excellent portability between windows and linux.
>
>You can look at the free trial version to verify some of these
>issues ( but not the CLIM portability issue ).
Does it have a good application delivery system of some sort? Can I
just dump an executable program for distribution?
Thanks for everyones comments,
--
Kenneth P. Turvey <······@SprocketShop.com>
--------------------------------------------
Luge strategy? Lie flat and try not to die.
-- Tim Steeves
······@SprocketShop.com (Kenneth P. Turvey) writes:
>
> Does it have a good application delivery system of some sort? Can I
> just dump an executable program for distribution?
They say they can and have an own manual about it. It's called
"Delivery User Guide" and should be there even in their free trial
version.
Hope this helps a bit
Friedrich
"Kenneth P. Turvey" wrote:
> On Thu, 18 May 2000 13:28:41 -0600, David Hanley <···@ncgr.org> wrote:
> >
> >Well, I have just experience with the windows version,
> >but:
> >
> >The product is generally pretty good, but the documentation
> >is only so-so. Their own GUI layer's documentation is
> >very inadequate, so CLIM may be the way to go with this
> >product. The CLIM package seems pretty large, so it may
> >add considerably to the shipped image, maybe not. I have
> >to try this. Their help is very good and responsive.
> >
> >They claim excellent portability between windows and linux.
> >
> >You can look at the free trial version to verify some of these
> >issues ( but not the CLIM portability issue ).
>
> Does it have a good application delivery system of some sort? Can I
> just dump an executable program for distribution?
Yep. There's different levels of "tree shaking" in which
superfluous code is removed from the image, and you can
intervene in this process to help it compact you image
even further. I tried a simple GUI app, and the lowest
level of packing resulted in a 15MB executable, and the
highest level was 4.2MB, both with no intervention.
For some apps which you need to ship several executables
the best approach is probably to ship one executable and several
scripts which invoke it with special parameters.
Far and away their biggest problem, IMO, is the documentation.
They'll explain it to you if you e-mail, but that takes time.
dave
On Fri, 19 May 2000 10:39:59 -0600, David Hanley <···@ncgr.org> wrote:
>even further. I tried a simple GUI app, and the lowest
>level of packing resulted in a 15MB executable, and the
>highest level was 4.2MB, both with no intervention.
$.2 Mb for a simle gui app? =:-O
//-----------------------------------------------
// Fernando Rodriguez Romero
//
// frr at mindless dot com
//------------------------------------------------
From: dave linenberg
Subject: Re: Lispworks for Linux and CLIM?
Date:
Message-ID: <39240746.AA9645F@home.com>
Mark Watson wrote:
> Anyway, the Windows version works great, so hopefully the
> Linux version works well also (I hope to acquire a Linux license
> also by the end of the year, so I would be interested in hearing
> your comments if you get LWP for Linux).
I downloaded the Lispworks for Linux trial, and it did not work on my
particular system at first. (RedHat 6.0). There was a problem with my
Lesstif libraries. Just recently, the open group (or whatever they call
themselves) released motif under a (sort of) public license. With the new
motif libraries, I got Lispworks for Linux working. However, after
playing with it for several hours, it seemed that there were stability
issues, where about every 15 to 20 minutes, the screens would not
redraw/refresh themselves. (Sometimes netscape on linux does this). I had
to kill -9 the process, and restart Lispworks several times. I am not sure
if these issues have been worked out with the professional Linux version,
or if these symptoms are peculiar to my particular linux setup.
In any case, you probably should download the trial as well as the new
motif libraries to see for yourself.
Dave Linenberg
dave linenberg <········@home.com> writes:
> With the new
> motif libraries, I got Lispworks for Linux working. However, after
> playing with it for several hours, it seemed that there were stability
> issues, where about every 15 to 20 minutes, the screens would not
> redraw/refresh themselves. (Sometimes netscape on linux does this). I had
> to kill -9 the process, and restart Lispworks several times.
We haven't seen that here. Possible explanations might be hitting the
heap size limit in the Personal Edition (10 MB, I think) or entering
the TTY debugger. In the former case, there should be a warning
dialog, but perhaps it was obscured by some other windows. The TTY
debugger is what the system does if it gets repeated errors trying to
bring up a window debugger: check the terminal where you started LW
from.
--
Pekka P. Pirinen, Harlequin Limited
"If you don't look after knowledge, it goes away."
- Terry Pratchett, The Carpet People