From: Paolo Amoroso
Subject: What does Symbolics Joshua do?
Date: 
Message-ID: <FpmGOdvnXk+xtymmR=s0leerOZC+@4ax.com>
What does the Symbolics Joshua application/utility do? Just curious.


Paolo
-- 
EncyCMUCLopedia * Extensive collection of CMU Common Lisp documentation
http://cvs2.cons.org:8000/cmucl/doc/EncyCMUCLopedia/

From: Guy Footring
Subject: Re: What does Symbolics Joshua do?
Date: 
Message-ID: <wk7la1875v.fsf@ford.com>
Paolo Amoroso <·······@mclink.it> writes:

> What does the Symbolics Joshua application/utility do? Just curious.

It is an extensible expert-system programming substrate.  It provides
forward/backward-chaining mechanism using reti-net.  I can't remember
too much about it, but I think it was meant to be a lighter-weight
equivalent to KEE/ART but without any specific GUI features.
One of the main aspects is the ability to subclass the mechanisms
to override specific features, such as where data was stored.

Hope the above is of some help.  If you have specific questions
I can probably dig out a manual for it from the garage and see
if I can find more detail.

Guy Footring.

> 
> 
> Paolo
> -- 
> EncyCMUCLopedia * Extensive collection of CMU Common Lisp documentation
> http://cvs2.cons.org:8000/cmucl/doc/EncyCMUCLopedia/
From: Rainer Joswig
Subject: Re: What does Symbolics Joshua do?
Date: 
Message-ID: <joswig-FF8DF4.00000602082000@news.is-europe.net>
In article <··············@ford.com>, Guy Footring <········@ford.com> 
wrote:

> Paolo Amoroso <·······@mclink.it> writes:
> 
> > What does the Symbolics Joshua application/utility do? Just curious.
> 
> It is an extensible expert-system programming substrate.  It provides
> forward/backward-chaining mechanism using reti-net.

"rete". ;-)

>  I can't remember
> too much about it, but I think it was meant to be a lighter-weight
> equivalent to KEE/ART but without any specific GUI features.
> One of the main aspects is the ability to subclass the mechanisms
> to override specific features, such as where data was stored.
> 
> Hope the above is of some help.  If you have specific questions
> I can probably dig out a manual for it from the garage and see
> if I can find more detail.
> 
> Guy Footring.

Open Genera now includes Joshua. I bought a copy of Joshua
from Symbolics for my MacIvory. Joshua (like most of the
Symbolics software systems) comes with source and manual (online).

-- 
Rainer Joswig, Hamburg, Germany
Email: ·············@corporate-world.lisp.de
From: Fernando D. Mato Mira
Subject: Re: What does Symbolics Joshua do?
Date: 
Message-ID: <398896E3.1E4059CA@iname.com>
Rainer Joswig wrote:

> > forward/backward-chaining mechanism using reti-net.
> 
> "rete". ;-)

I always found cool the fact that "rete" means "net" in Portuguese..

[Oh great. Now will I not only get snail mail in Italian but also email
in Portuguese.. :) 
<flame>Beats ads from Germany-based distributors for Switzerland
though</flame> ]

-- 
Fernando D. Mato Mira			   Phone    : +41 (78) 778 FDMM
 				           E-mail   : matomira AT acm DOT org
From: Sashank Varma
Subject: Re: What does Symbolics Joshua do?
Date: 
Message-ID: <sashank-0408001006220001@129.59.212.53>
In article <·················@iname.com>, "Fernando D. Mato Mira"
<········@iname.com> wrote:

>Rainer Joswig wrote:
>
>> > forward/backward-chaining mechanism using reti-net.
>> 
>> "rete". ;-)
>
>I always found cool the fact that "rete" means "net" in Portuguese..

my recollection is that "rete" is greek (or possibly latin) for
network or some such cognate.  (underlying many production systems
is a "rete network, for those who don't know.)  so it makes sense
that romance language contain residues of this word meaning.

sashank
From: Paolo Amoroso
Subject: Re: What does Symbolics Joshua do?
Date: 
Message-ID: <I+qKOUUarZxytvKQLxnFcui7RTSg@4ax.com>
On Fri, 04 Aug 2000 10:06:22 -0500, ·······@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Sashank
Varma) wrote:

> my recollection is that "rete" is greek (or possibly latin) for
> network or some such cognate.  (underlying many production systems

"Rete" is both a Latin and an Italian word. I don't know about connections
with Greek.


Paolo
-- 
EncyCMUCLopedia * Extensive collection of CMU Common Lisp documentation
http://cvs2.cons.org:8000/cmucl/doc/EncyCMUCLopedia/
From: Fernando D. Mato Mira
Subject: Re: What does Symbolics Joshua do?
Date: 
Message-ID: <398B6B1C.CDB8A7AA@iname.com>
Paolo Amoroso wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 04 Aug 2000 10:06:22 -0500, ·······@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Sashank
> Varma) wrote:
> 
> > my recollection is that "rete" is greek (or possibly latin) for
> > network or some such cognate.  (underlying many production systems
> 
> "Rete" is both a Latin and an Italian word. I don't know about connections
> with Greek.

Actually, I got "interferenz" (*). In Portuguese it's "rede". Although I
saw the word in print once regarding some networking stuff, the fact is
that it got orally imprinted in my brain by the Rede Manchete announcer
during my teens (I was fascinated because they had *3D GRAPHICS* and
that was not used at all in Argentinian TV at the time). You know, "ta
ti tu te to - da di du de do", Kohonen, etc.

Sorry to (I think) The Glauber et al. [Hello PARC??] I told you not to
send email in Portuguese :)

While we are at it, in Spanish it's "red". That's why ECLOS rules! :)
[Delta Red, Sky Red]. Bah, just _Red_ rules! (well, mostly ;)) [Is
_that_ the real reason why I live here?? :)] Ole!

-- 
Fernando D. Mato Mira			   Phone    : +41 (78) 778 FDMM
 				           E-mail   : matomira AT acm DOT org

(*) Does everybody else gets SPAM in CHINESE from TAIWAN?? 
    At least the stuff in "geographically incorrect" German is mostly
relevant and could be read if you really wanted..
From: Marius Vollmer
Subject: Re: What does Symbolics Joshua do?
Date: 
Message-ID: <87snskvyuv.fsf@zagadka.ping.de>
"Fernando D. Mato Mira" <········@iname.com> writes:

> Rainer Joswig wrote:
> 
> > > forward/backward-chaining mechanism using reti-net.
> > 
> > "rete". ;-)
> 
> I always found cool the fact that "rete" means "net" in Portuguese..

There's also "retina" which probably stems from "rete".  In German the
retina is also called "Netzhaut", roughly "netskin".  The connection
with "net" probably comes from the net of capillaries that are visible
on the retina.
From: Francis Leboutte
Subject: Re: What does Symbolics Joshua do?
Date: 
Message-ID: <5j9ios89fplrnsbiqohq9cd2hbu6bg524f@4ax.com>
Rainer Joswig <······@corporate-world.lisp.de> wrote:

>In article <··············@ford.com>, Guy Footring <········@ford.com> 
>wrote:
>
>> Paolo Amoroso <·······@mclink.it> writes:
>> 
>> > What does the Symbolics Joshua application/utility do? Just curious.
>> 
>> It is an extensible expert-system programming substrate.  It provides
>> forward/backward-chaining mechanism using reti-net.
>
>"rete". ;-)
>
>>  I can't remember
>> too much about it, but I think it was meant to be a lighter-weight
>> equivalent to KEE/ART but without any specific GUI features.
>> One of the main aspects is the ability to subclass the mechanisms
>> to override specific features, such as where data was stored.
>> 
>> Hope the above is of some help.  If you have specific questions
>> I can probably dig out a manual for it from the garage and see
>> if I can find more detail.
>> 
>> Guy Footring.
>
>Open Genera now includes Joshua. I bought a copy of Joshua
>from Symbolics for my MacIvory. Joshua (like most of the
>Symbolics software systems) comes with source and manual (online).

Is it CLOS based? It is a bit sad that after all these years of Lisp expert
system  shell development (KEE, ART, Goldworks, Babylon, ...) we just have
OPS5 (portable but non CLOS).

--
Francis Leboutte
··@algo.be   www.algo.be   +32-(0)4.388.39.19
From: Rainer Joswig
Subject: Re: What does Symbolics Joshua do?
Date: 
Message-ID: <joswig-6C8426.21443703082000@news.is-europe.net>
In article <··································@4ax.com>, 
··········@algo.be wrote:

> >Open Genera now includes Joshua. I bought a copy of Joshua
> >from Symbolics for my MacIvory. Joshua (like most of the
> >Symbolics software systems) comes with source and manual (online).
> 
> Is it CLOS based? It is a bit sad that after all these years of Lisp expert
> system  shell development (KEE, ART, Goldworks, Babylon, ...) we just have
> OPS5 (portable but non CLOS).

There are others like for example LOOM or PowerLOOM.

http://www.isi.edu/isd/LOOM/LOOM-HOME.html
http://www.informatik.uni-ulm.de/ki/Liebig/loom-index.html (german)

Well, the old Symbolics Joshua (looking...) is using Flavors.

I heard that there is a CLOS-based version of Joshua.

-- 
Rainer Joswig, Hamburg, Germany
Email: ·············@corporate-world.lisp.de
From: Guy Footring
Subject: Re: What does Symbolics Joshua do?
Date: 
Message-ID: <wk66pivie1.fsf@ford.com>
Francis Leboutte <··········@algo.be> writes:
> Rainer Joswig <······@corporate-world.lisp.de> wrote:
> 
> >In article <··············@ford.com>, Guy Footring <········@ford.com> 
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Paolo Amoroso <·······@mclink.it> writes:
> >> 
> >> > What does the Symbolics Joshua application/utility do? Just curious.
> >> 
> >> It is an extensible expert-system programming substrate.  It provides
> >> forward/backward-chaining mechanism using reti-net.
> >
> >"rete". ;-)
> >
> >>  I can't remember
> >> too much about it, but I think it was meant to be a lighter-weight
> >> equivalent to KEE/ART but without any specific GUI features.
> >> One of the main aspects is the ability to subclass the mechanisms
> >> to override specific features, such as where data was stored.
> >> 
> >> Hope the above is of some help.  If you have specific questions
> >> I can probably dig out a manual for it from the garage and see
> >> if I can find more detail.
> >> 
> >> Guy Footring.
> >
> >Open Genera now includes Joshua. I bought a copy of Joshua
> >from Symbolics for my MacIvory. Joshua (like most of the
> >Symbolics software systems) comes with source and manual (online).
> 
> Is it CLOS based? It is a bit sad that after all these years of Lisp expert
> system  shell development (KEE, ART, Goldworks, Babylon, ...) we just have
> OPS5 (portable but non CLOS).
> 

I can't remember if it was CLOS based or Flavors based.  I seem to remember
that Symbolics looked at selling it for other CL implementations, but
I think that at that time performance would have been too poor on 
non-Symbolics hardware (the implementation used Symbolics microcode
support to do the Prolog-like matching I believe).  If I'm remembering
the above correctly then it probably was CLOS based.
Given the huge shift in computational power since then it would probably
be worth Symbolics reviewing whether a Joshua port would be an economic
prospect now.
Of course, it's a long time since I worked at Symbolics, and even when
I was there I didn't really spend much time with Joshua, so take the
above with some degree of suspicion.

Guy Footring.

> --
> Francis Leboutte
> ··@algo.be   www.algo.be   +32-(0)4.388.39.19
From: Christopher C Stacy
Subject: Re: What does Symbolics Joshua do?
Date: 
Message-ID: <x8l8zuelimc.fsf@world.std.com>
Probably some default protocol makes use of the microcoded Unification operator.
From: Rainer Joswig
Subject: Re: What does Symbolics Joshua do?
Date: 
Message-ID: <joswig-556B3A.13084003082000@news.is-europe.net>
In article <···············@world.std.com>, Christopher C Stacy 
<······@world.std.com> wrote:

> Probably some default protocol makes use of the microcoded Unification operator.
> 

It runs on ivories. They don't have microcode.

-- 
Rainer Joswig, Hamburg, Germany
Email: ·············@corporate-world.lisp.de
From: Christopher J. Vogt
Subject: Re: What does Symbolics Joshua do?
Date: 
Message-ID: <398980B7.A60DAAFF@computer.org>
Rainer Joswig wrote:
> 
> In article <···············@world.std.com>, Christopher C Stacy
> <······@world.std.com> wrote:
> 
> > Probably some default protocol makes use of the microcoded Unification operator.
> >
> 
> It runs on ivories. They don't have microcode.

Ivories have microcode, but unlike the 3600s it is hardwired and not writeable.
From: Rainer Joswig
Subject: Re: What does Symbolics Joshua do?
Date: 
Message-ID: <joswig-26F6AE.20584103082000@news.is-europe.net>
In article <····························@news.is-europe.net>, Rainer 
Joswig <······@corporate-world.lisp.de> wrote:

> In article <···············@world.std.com>, Christopher C Stacy 
> <······@world.std.com> wrote:
> 
> > Probably some default protocol makes use of the microcoded Unification operator.
> > 
> 
> It runs on ivories. They don't have microcode.

Sorry, I meant "no changeable microcode", like the 36xx architecture
had. Well, the "processor" was also a bit larger at that time. ;-)

-- 
Rainer Joswig, Hamburg, Germany
Email: ·············@corporate-world.lisp.de
From: Jason Trenouth
Subject: Re: What does Symbolics Joshua do?
Date: 
Message-ID: <sn4ipss2bkf144fp4i68cc97gun2nkvh7s@4ax.com>
On Thu, 03 Aug 2000 10:00:14 +0200, Francis Leboutte <··········@algo.be>
wrote:

> Is it CLOS based? It is a bit sad that after all these years of Lisp expert
> system  shell development (KEE, ART, Goldworks, Babylon, ...) we just have
> OPS5 (portable but non CLOS).

Xanalys KnowledgeWorks is CLOS-based, providing both OPS-style forward chaining
and Prolog-style backward chaining over CLOS objects. See
http://www.xanalys.com/software_tools/products/knowledgeworks.html

__Jason