I personally don't think that this group needs that stuff. Just my
$0.02. There are tons of other groups that have flame wars. One I
remember a friend showing me that was brutal was alt.fitness a couple
of years ago. c.l.l. is a place to discuss a computer language. I
still have no clue why it becomes a warzone. I guess I'd understand
if a bunch of C++ people started hitting it, claiming some kind of
superiority, but that's not the case.
btw, that Xah guy was the stupidest poster I've ever seen on any
newsgroup, by far. He was a waste of resources.
dave
Dave Dakhash & reader,
I'm tired of veracious rants, so i'll be straight forward.
I will apologize not because it is my style, but to make myself clearer.
Sorry about the mess i wrung in February, and i appreciate you lending me an
ear for a moment of mutual understanding now.
I do not know lisp, really, thus i do not appreciate many deep discussions
here. However, I think the word 'appreciation' is under appreciated. If i
were suddenly to converse with Einstein, his relativity would be nonsense to
me. If i were to hark Beethoven in his time, his 9th would fall on deaf
ears. If Shakespear were to travel in time, similarly, i'm sure he would not
understand my talking of the Internet.
I remember watching an episode of The Simpsons cartoon, where a Jazz
musician is playing an unusual piece in a bar. One audience grumbled "What
was THAT?" and Lisa Simpson said helpfully: "you have to listen to the notes
not played", then the guy said "I can do that at home!".
The point of 'appreciation' -- besides the 'thankful' meaning -- is that
developed artifacts require conditioning and sometimes significant intellect
to _appreciate_. Honestly, how many of you here can understand Chinese
calligraphy? Count Bach's counterpoint? Perceive Dickinson's furor on paper?
Visualize theories of polytope? Or, how many of you would smile when a pun
in French is spoken? How many of you can _get_ "Perl poetry"?
http://www.itknowledge.com/tpj/contest-poetry.html
How many of you can realize a Picasso?
An elegant Scheme would not sing in front of an industrious C droid; i'm
sure many of you can appreciate that one!
There are 'infinite' number of developed artifacts and one cannot develop
appreciation for them all. It would be all right to not understand
something, but it would be imbecilic to put judgements on things one don't
understand. This is especially important in newsgroups, because almost every
public posts are now archived. Anyone can in minutes discover all writings
and thoughts of another on the net. If i don't understand lisp, it would be
wise to not bray about how lisp is stupid or otherwise criticize, because my
stupidity would be archived and open for all in the know to see. (By the by
the way, i have committed no such stupidity. (i hope))
--
I had a fictitious dream yesterday, where i was nominated a Nobel Prize
laureate in Literature and was going to give my reception speech to a
thousand voracious lurkers in appreciation, then a voice in the crowd
shouted:
>btw, that Xah guy was the stupidest poster I've ever seen on any
>newsgroup, by far. He was a waste of resources.
Then i saw this guy loomed up and become quite _naked_. His belly, clear in
sight, grew like the way a balloon bloats. It is growing so quick and huge
that it is filling up the entire auditorium and is going to squash me like a
meat patty. At that point, i awoke and found out that there is a post in
comp.lang.lisp waiting for me to reply to.
Thank you Dave Dakhash for your plebeian ear. I fully appreciate your raw
candor. If everyone in the world are guile and cunning like me,
'appreciation' would be fucked in the ass.
PS There was Planner, there was Conniver, and we have Guile and we have
Scheme. Can we have Cunning? (i wanna be a cunnilingual programer.)
PS while composing this message, there comes
http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/index/6/0,8377,62066,00.html
That, is serious shit. My god it stinks.
Xah
···@xahlee.org
http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/more.html
> From: David Bakhash <·····@alum.mit.edu>
> Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
> Date: 24 Apr 2000 10:16:49 -0400
> Subject: Re: Bring back Xah!
>
> I personally don't think that this group needs that stuff. Just my
> $0.02. There are tons of other groups that have flame wars. One I
> remember a friend showing me that was brutal was alt.fitness a couple
> of years ago. c.l.l. is a place to discuss a computer language. I
> still have no clue why it becomes a warzone. I guess I'd understand
> if a bunch of C++ people started hitting it, claiming some kind of
> superiority, but that's not the case.
>
> btw, that Xah guy was the stupidest poster I've ever seen on any
> newsgroup, by far. He was a waste of resources.
>
> dave
On Tue, 25 Apr 2000 02:41:11 -0700, Xah <···@xahlee.org> wrote:
>Dave Dakhash & reader,
>
>I'm tired of veracious rants, so i'll be straight forward.
Thanks God it was "straight forward"! };-DDD
>I will apologize not because it is my style, but to make myself clearer.
>Sorry about the mess i wrung in February, and i appreciate you lending me an
>ear for a moment of mutual understanding now.
[huge amounts of nonsense elided]
It's strange that immediately after Erik stated that if he ever
stopped flooding the NG with his crazy rants we would be invaded by
"cretins", a true "cretin" (Erik dixit) comes back to life...
Funny coincidence, indeed. ;-) Obviously, someone has too much free
time on his hands to prove his point of view. Get a life, "Xah".
//-----------------------------------------------
// Fernando Rodriguez Romero
//
// frr at mindless dot com
//------------------------------------------------
Fernando <·······@must.die> writes:
> It's strange that immediately after Erik stated that if he ever
> stopped flooding the NG with his crazy rants we would be invaded by
> "cretins", a true "cretin" (Erik dixit) comes back to life...
>
> Funny coincidence, indeed. ;-) Obviously, someone has too much free
> time on his hands to prove his point of view. Get a life, "Xah".
Oh, come on. That post by Xah was one of the most entertaining things
to turn up on this newsgroup in weeks! (Admittedly it's been a pretty
tiresome couple of weeks for cll...)
M.
--
8. A programming language is low level when its programs require
attention to the irrelevant.
-- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/~perlis-alan/quotes.html
* Michael Hudson <·····@cam.ac.uk>
| (Admittedly it's been a pretty tiresome couple of weeks for cll...)
is this a cry for help to learn how to instruct your newsreader to ignore
threads? I have always labored under the "misconception" that USENET is
a medium where selectivity in reading is as much a requirement as with
any other news medium -- namely that if you aren't selective, you'll go
mad from sheer information overload. to aid those who agree with this, I
don't change the subject of threads unless I want to break continuity,
and that happens almost as seldom as changing the newsgroup. (speaking
of which, why is it a good idea to bug a new and different audience with
a topic if the only constructive element to a "take it elswhere" is to
get rid of noise?) I'm very disappointed that this is not appreciated by
those who obviously don't want to read "tiresome" material, and I get
annoyed when they go out of their way to make more noise about the noise,
usually blaming others for their meta-noise in the process, triggering
the _normal_ and _expected_ reactions to false accusations and general
blame-throwing. the only way to reduce noise is to figure out what it
comes from and help fix the core problem. complaining about noise _is_
noise, by definition.
but frankly, complaining about news _volume_ (which is what this boils
down to, much more than signal vs noise) means you have missed a crucial
point about communication. tuning in and tuning out, focusing attention,
and following up the listening with _caring_ is so fundamental to our
ability to sorting signal from noise in real life that I can't imagine
how people work who are irritated by stuff they profess to ignore, and so
it always amazes me that people think it's somebody _else's_ fault if
they care about the noise they "suffer".
the best possible remedy to news overload is to read news on a machine
that displays messages fast enough that you can actually browse them and
let your trained reader eye spot information that is _important_ to you
among all the noise that _inevitably_ fills up your sensory input system.
it may be one of the great "failings" of artificial intelligence and the
Internet as a whole that _all_ information has an air of _importance_
associated with it, simply by virtue of requiring nonzero effort to come
by it, but being able to discard the unimportant and leave the important
is _crucial_ to surviving in the information age.
#:Erik
Erik Naggum <····@naggum.no> writes:
> * Michael Hudson <·····@cam.ac.uk>
> | (Admittedly it's been a pretty tiresome couple of weeks for cll...)
>
> is this a cry for help to learn how to instruct your newsreader to ignore
> threads?
No, it was a throwaway remark.
Cheers,
M.
--
If i don't understand lisp, it would be wise to not bray about
how lisp is stupid or otherwise criticize, because my stupidity
would be archived and open for all in the know to see.
-- Xah, comp.lang.lisp
Fernando Rodriguez Romero,
> [huge amounts of nonsense elided]
- ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^
it is apparent that you not only have a poor diction, but also wanting of
erudition. The sea of your will and knowledge, seethes and fumes like a
boiling pot of piss.
i have a lesson for smart asses,
that poesy is not found in thesaurus,
but thesaurus is the foundry of poem,
only if you are not an ass.
> It's strange that immediately after Erik stated that if he ever
> stopped flooding the NG with his crazy rants we would be invaded by
> "cretins", a true "cretin" (Erik dixit) comes back to life...
>
> Funny coincidence, indeed. ;-) Obviously, someone has too much free
> time on his hands to prove his point of view. Get a life, "Xah".
chick a flirt,
raging a cock,
don't have it you?
fuck off.
PS just checked my archived messages. Haven't you said you killfiled both me
& Erik in message id ··································@4ax.com ?
http://x25.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=587614997&CONTEXT=956813950.1829
240863&hitnum=90
I guess it's the revival of the living dead.
Xah
···@xahlee.org
http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/more.html
On Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:09:37 -0700, Xah <···@xahlee.org> wrote:
>Fernando Rodriguez Romero,
>PS just checked my archived messages. Haven't you said you killfiled both me
>& Erik in message id ··································@4ax.com ?
>http://x25.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=587614997&CONTEXT=956813950.1829
>240863&hitnum=90
Yes but your filter expired. Thanks for the tip
//-----------------------------------------------
// Fernando Rodriguez Romero
//
// frr at mindless dot com
//------------------------------------------------
David Bakhash <·····@alum.mit.edu> writes:
> c.l.l. is a place to discuss a computer language.
> I still have no clue why it becomes a warzone.
I would like to appologize for my contributions to the war.
Sorry.
Stig Hemmer,
Jack of a Few Trades.
Stig Hemmer <····@pvv.ntnu.no> writes:
> I would like to appologize for my contributions to the war.
war is an inappropriate analogy; "flame war" is a misnomer.
in any usenet exchange, the only casualty is time.
there are better uses for regret.
thi
thi <···@netcom.com> writes:
> in any usenet exchange, the only casualty is time.
Truth tends to take a beating as well. That is, if it is a
participant.
David Bakhash <·····@alum.mit.edu> writes:
>c.l.l. is a place to discuss a computer language.
>I still have no clue why it becomes a warzone.
The technical term is "anus envy".
comp.lang.lisp.moderated
comp.lang.lisp.bondage
comp.lang.lisp.newbies
comp.lang.lisp.homework
comp.lang.lisp.flames
comp.lang.lisp.off-topic
sci.med.diseases.pruritus-ani
alt.recovery.erik-naggum
alt.newsgroup.vampire.plonk.plonk.plonk
alt.syntax.tactical
comp.lang.lisp.decline-and-fall
Will Mengarini <······@eskimo.com>
Free software: the Source will be with you, always.
"Lisp is an eternal thought in the mind of God."
--Crassus, mutatis mutandi
"If there are aliens, they use Lisp."
--Edward Lasker, mutatis mutandi
"HE'S AHAB, boy; and Ahab of old, thou knowest,
was a crowned king!" --/Moby-Dick/, Ch 16
"I don't well know whether to go back and strike him, or--what's
that?--down here on my knees and pray for him? Yes, that was the
thought coming up in me; but it would be the first time I ever *did*
pray. It's queer; very queer [...]" --ibid., Ch 29
"For be a man's intellectual superiority what it will, it can never
assume the practical, available supremacy over other men, without the
aid of some sort of external arts and entrenchments, always, in
themselves, more or less paltry and base. This it is, that forever
keeps God's true princes of the Empire from the world's hustings; and
leaves the highest honors that this air can give, to those men who
become famous more through their infinite inferiority to the choice
hidden handful of the Divine Inert, than through their undoubted
superiority over the dead level of the mass." --ibid., Ch 33
"My soul is more than matched; she's overmanned; and by a madman!
Insufferable sting, that sanity should ground arms on such a field!
But he drilled deep down, and blasted all my reason out of me!
I think I see his impious end; but feel that I must help him to it.
Will I, nill I, the ineffable thing has tied me to him;
tows me with a cable I have no knife to cut.
Horrible old man!
[...] Oh, life! 'tis now that I do feel the latent horror in thee!"
--ibid., Ch 38
"[The cabin; by the stern windows; Ahab sitting alone, and gazing
out.] I leave a white and turbid wake; pale waters, paler cheeks,
where'er I sail. The envious billows sidelong swell to whelm my
track; let them; but first I pass.
Yonder, by the ever-brimming goblet's rim, the warm waves blush
like wine. The gold brow plumbs the blue. The diver sun--slow
dived from noon,--goes down; my soul mounts up! she wearies with
her endless hill. Is, then, the crown too heavy that I wear? this
Iron Crown of Lombardy. Yet is it bright with many a gem; I, the
wearer, see not its far flashings; but darkly feel that I wear that,
that dazzlingly confounds. 'Tis iron--that I know--not gold. 'Tis
split, too--that I feel; the jagged edge galls me so, my brain seems
to beat against the solid metal; aye, steel skull, mine; the sort
that needs no helmet in the most brain-battering fight!
Dry heat upon my brow? Oh! time was, when as the sunrise nobly
spurred me, so the sunset soothed. No more. This lovely light, it
lights not me; all loveliness is anguish to me, since I can ne'er
enjoy. Gifted with the high perception, I lack the low, enjoying
power; damned, most subtly and most malignantly! damned in the midst
of Paradise!" --ibid., Ch 37
"What though the field be lost?
All is not lost; the unconquerable Will,
And study of revenge, immortal hate,
And courage never to submit or yield."
--Lucifer, 'Paradise Lost', Milton
"What if you slept? And what if, in your sleep, you dreamed?
And what if, in your dream, you went to heaven and there
plucked a strange and beautiful flower? And what if, when
you awoke, you had the flower in your hand? Ah, what then?"
--Coleridge
"war is an inappropriate analogy; ``flame war'' is a misnomer.
in any usenet exchange, the only casualty is time.
there are better uses for regret."
--thi <···@netcom.com>
"Over a hundred years ago, the German poet Heine
warned the French not to underestimate the power of ideas:
philosophical concepts nurtured in the stillness of a
professor's study could destroy a civilization."
--Isaiah Berlin in /The Power of Ideas/
"As long as war is regarded as wicked, it will always have
its fascination. When it is looked upon as vulgar,
it will cease to be popular."
--Oscar Wilde
"We are all somehow dreadfully cracked about the head,
and sadly need mending." --/Moby-Dick/, Ch 17
Beware the Dark Side of the Net. Seductive it is.
Anger, fear, aggression, the Dark Side of discourse are they.
Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight.
Consume you they will. Once you start down the Dark Path,
forever will it dominate your destiny.