Why do I rarely see a reference to cmucl in a list of CL environments?
Are there any limitations that I should be aware of? I know it's not
multithreaded, but that's not /too/ much of a problem for what I'm
planning to use it for. Is it just a publicity thing?
Any information/speculation is appreciated.
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-> "I never could get the hang of Thursdays." -Douglas N. Adams <-
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Rahul Jain wrote:
> Why do I rarely see a reference to cmucl in a list of CL environments?
> Are there any limitations that I should be aware of? I know it's not
> multithreaded, but that's not /too/ much of a problem for what I'm
> planning to use it for. Is it just a publicity thing?
> Any information/speculation is appreciated.
Actually, CMUCL is often referred to as an excellent example of an
optimizing Lisp compiler: its type assertion and inference features are
exceptional, and for some types of numerical calculations, it's
frequently quoted to be the fastest. Also, this seems to be the only
non-commercial Lisp that has the breadth to run sophisticated
applications (e.g., CL-HTTP) - and I think the only non-commercial
implementation that has both multiprocessing and extended loop.
Robert
Eugene Zaikonnikov wrote:
> I believe that if you'd benchmark CMUCL and ACL, the difference would be not
> so dramatic, and in certain tests (like inner-loop calls of functions
> declared as inline) CMUCL may even win.
If you can't live with slow CLOS, you have to get a commercial CL.
Fernando Mato Mira wrote:
>
> Eugene Zaikonnikov wrote:
>
> > I believe that if you'd benchmark CMUCL and ACL, the difference would be not
> > so dramatic, and in certain tests (like inner-loop calls of functions
> > declared as inline) CMUCL may even win.
>
> If you can't live with slow CLOS, you have to get a commercial CL.
If you can't live with substandard CLOS, you have to get a commercial
CL.
Think of the difference between a Closette implementation (which is a
simplification of CLOS and MOP) with mere effective method caching and
an implementation whose developer points out elusive bugs in Closette
and shows efficient trampoline code in assembly (see Duane's recent
postings).
Regards
Robert
Robert Monfera wrote:
> If you can't live with substandard CLOS, you have to get a commercial
> CL.
>
> Think of the difference between a Closette implementation (which is a
> simplification of CLOS and MOP) with mere effective method caching and
> an implementation whose developer points out elusive bugs in Closette
> and shows efficient trampoline code in assembly (see Duane's recent
> postings).
I'd like to point out that PCL big CLOS, not Closette.
If you were also refering to it, a better term in this case would be `user-level
implementation'
--
((( DANGER )) LISP BIGOT (( DANGER )) LISP BIGOT (( DANGER )))
Fernando D. Mato Mira
Real-Time SW Eng & Networking
Advanced Systems Engineering Division
CSEM
Jaquet-Droz 1 email: matomira AT acm DOT org
CH-2007 Neuchatel tel: +41 (32) 720-5157
Switzerland FAX: +41 (32) 720-5720
www.csem.ch www.vrai.com ligwww.epfl.ch/matomira.html
Rahul Jain wrote:
> I know it's not multithreaded, but that's not /too/ much of a problem
> for what I'm planning to use it for.
Silly me. I go exploring and guess what (list-all-packages) shows? A
multiprocessing package! Now to figure out how to use the sucker... (i.e.
please tell me if there are any good tutorials/examples/docs :-)
--
-> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- < Rahul -=- Jain > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- <-
-> "I never could get the hang of Thursdays." -Douglas N. Adams <-
-> -=-=-=- URL: http://hoohoo.brrsd.k12.nj.us/~rjain/ -=-=-=- <-
-> -=-=-=-=-=- E-mail: ·················@usa.net -=-=-=-=-=- <-
Version 9.105.999.1111111111111.23.042
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Disclaimer available upon request.
Rahul Jain <·····@owlnet.rice.edu> writes:
> Silly me. I go exploring and guess what (list-all-packages) shows? A
> multiprocessing package! Now to figure out how to use the sucker... (i.e.
> please tell me if there are any good tutorials/examples/docs :-)
It's based roughly on the CLIM-SYS spec, plus other bits needed to
support CL-HTTP. CLIM-SYS is at
http://www.harlequin.com/education/books/CLIM-2.0/GUID_333.HTM#HEADING333-0
and CL-HTTP at
http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/cl-http/home-page.html
and the source is in src/code/multi-proc.lisp
If you haven't seen http://ww.telent.net/lisp/howto.html already you
might want to look at it. But I would say that, I wrote it. If you
find good MP docs/examples you might want to mail me with URLs and
I'll add to it for the next person who asks.
-dan
In article <·················@owlnet.rice.edu>,
Rahul Jain <·····@owlnet.rice.edu> wrote:
> Why do I rarely see a reference to cmucl in a list of CL environments?
> Are there any limitations that I should be aware of? I know it's not
> multithreaded, but that's not /too/ much of a problem for what I'm
> planning to use it for. Is it just a publicity thing?
> Any information/speculation is appreciated.
It's not available for the Win32 platform.
--
John Watton
Alcoa Inc.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
John Watton wrote:
> In article <·················@owlnet.rice.edu>,
> Rahul Jain <·····@owlnet.rice.edu> wrote:
> > Why do I rarely see a reference to cmucl in a list of CL environments?
>
> It's not available for the Win32 platform.
Neither is MacLisp ;)
But seriously, does that mean that it shouldn't get mentioned in about half
the lists of Lisp enviromnments I've seen (by rough guesstimate based on
memory)? Most educational institutions have *nix boxen for login and/or lab
access.
If Win32 availability is the true judge of a Lisp environment being worth
mentioning (seems weird to be given Lisp's insistence on elegance and doing
things The Right Way; at least Unix comes close to that ideal ;), how hard
would it be to port cmucl to Win32?
--
-> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- < Rahul -=- Jain > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- <-
-> "I never could get the hang of Thursdays." -Douglas N. Adams <-
-> -=-=-=- URL: http://hoohoo.brrsd.k12.nj.us/~rjain/ -=-=-=- <-
-> -=-=-=-=-=- E-mail: ·················@usa.net -=-=-=-=-=- <-
Version 9.105.999.1111111111111.23.042
(c)1996-1998, All rights reserved.
Disclaimer available upon request.
In article <················@owlnet.rice.edu>, Rahul Jain
<·····@owlnet.rice.edu> wrote:
>John Watton wrote:
>
>> In article <·················@owlnet.rice.edu>,
>> Rahul Jain <·····@owlnet.rice.edu> wrote:
>> > Why do I rarely see a reference to cmucl in a list of CL environments?
>>
>> It's not available for the Win32 platform.
>
>Neither is MacLisp ;)
Didn't MacLisp run on the PDP-10? I don't think many PDP-10 users (if
there are any remaining) particularly care about their Lisp environment
moving to Win32.
Oh, you meant Macintosh Common Lisp, a.k.a. MCL? Never mind...
((History lesson: MacLisp is one of the precursors to Common Lisp. Most
modern Lisp implementations -- including MCL -- are implementations of
Common Lisp.))
>But seriously, does that mean that it shouldn't get mentioned in about half
>the lists of Lisp enviromnments I've seen (by rough guesstimate based on
>memory)? Most educational institutions have *nix boxen for login and/or lab
>access.
>If Win32 availability is the true judge of a Lisp environment being worth
>mentioning (seems weird to be given Lisp's insistence on elegance and doing
>things The Right Way; at least Unix comes close to that ideal ;), how hard
>would it be to port cmucl to Win32?
This has been covered in great detail, many times. Please go read Deja News.
Rahul Jain wrote:
> But seriously, does that mean that it shouldn't get mentioned in about half
> the lists of Lisp enviromnments I've seen (by rough guesstimate based on
> memory)? Most educational institutions have *nix boxen for login and/or lab
Which lists? It appears in alu.org and in the FAQ..
--
Fernando D. Mato Mira
Real-Time SW Eng & Networking
Advanced Systems Engineering Division
CSEM
Jaquet-Droz 1 email: matomira AT acm DOT org
CH-2007 Neuchatel tel: +41 (32) 720-5157
Switzerland FAX: +41 (32) 720-5720
www.csem.ch www.vrai.com ligwww.epfl.ch/matomira.html
Rahul Jain <·····@owlnet.rice.edu> writes:
>Why do I rarely see a reference to cmucl in a list of CL environments?
I don't get that impression. What lists do you refer to?
>Are there any limitations that I should be aware of? I know it's not
>multithreaded,
Newer x86 versions (Linux/FreeBSD) have multiprocessing support,
although it's not as polished as the commercial Cl's.
>but that's not /too/ much of a problem for what I'm
>planning to use it for. Is it just a publicity thing?
>Any information/speculation is appreciated.
Compared to Clisp it's quite heavyweigth, hard to rebuild, doesn't
have readline in the listener and isn't available on as many
platforms. The result is that Clisp shows up more often in lists for
recommended beginner's Lisps. Once people got started, they can choose
their own and make up their own lists of implementations.
A more stable distribution server for CMUCL can't hurt, though. Lazy
bastards, over there :-)
The only CL which gets inappropriate coverage seems to be GCL, which
is barely recommendable by now, but has the term "GNU" in its name.
And hence instantly attracks those people who like "GNU software", not
recognizing that most mean "OpenSource software". Not a big loss.
Martin
--
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Martin Cracauer <········@bik-gmbh.de> http://www.bik-gmbh.de/~cracauer/
"Where do you want to do today?" Hard to tell running your calendar
program on a junk operating system, eh?