I am interested in getting in to LISP programming. The
problem is that I am limited to a windows machine for now. Is there a
good free (or cheap :-/) LISP compiler/interprater for win32? If
there is any info out there, it would be helpful.
--Jeff
On Sat, 13 Nov 1999 02:34:45 GMT, ·····@cloud9.net (Floss) wrote:
> I am interested in getting in to LISP programming. The
>problem is that I am limited to a windows machine for now. Is there a
>good free (or cheap :-/) LISP compiler/interprater for win32? If
>there is any info out there, it would be helpful.
Corman lisp is very unexpensive, Harlequin LispWorks has a
reasonable price and there's CLisp for free (I don't know if there's a
win32 port of CMUCL).
//-----------------------------------------------
// Fernando Rodriguez Romero
//
// frr at mindless dot com
//------------------------------------------------
·······@must.die (Fernando) writes:
> On Sat, 13 Nov 1999 02:34:45 GMT, ·····@cloud9.net (Floss) wrote:
>
> > I am interested in getting in to LISP programming. The
> >problem is that I am limited to a windows machine for now. Is there a
> >good free (or cheap :-/) LISP compiler/interprater for win32? If
> >there is any info out there, it would be helpful.
>
> Corman lisp is very unexpensive, Harlequin LispWorks has a
> reasonable price and there's CLisp for free (I don't know if there's a
> win32 port of CMUCL).
As of yet there is no win32 port of CMUCL, although in the past
interest in such a port has been expressed by a number of people.
Regs, Pierre.
--
Pierre Mai <····@acm.org> PGP and GPG keys at your nearest Keyserver
"One smaller motivation which, in part, stems from altruism is Microsoft-
bashing." [Microsoft memo, see http://www.opensource.org/halloween1.html]
On Sat, 13 Nov 1999 12:07:40 GMT, ·······@must.die (Fernando) wrote:
> reasonable price and there's CLisp for free (I don't know if there's a
> win32 port of CMUCL).
There isn't.
Paolo
--
EncyCMUCLopedia * Extensive collection of CMU Common Lisp documentation
http://cvs2.cons.org:8000/cmucl/doc/EncyCMUCLopedia/
You can find free LISP packages for Win32 on the LISP home page
http://www.elwoodcorp.com/alu/table/contents.htm.
BTW Corman LISP is virtually free.
The only problem is that the free LISP packages for Win32 do not contain a
GUI interface like Tk for example.
Janos Blazi
Floss <·····@cloud9.net> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
·················@news.cloud9.net...
> I am interested in getting in to LISP programming. The
> problem is that I am limited to a windows machine for now. Is there a
> good free (or cheap :-/) LISP compiler/interprater for win32? If
> there is any info out there, it would be helpful.
>
> --Jeff
"Janos Blazi" <······@netsurf.de> writes:
> You can find free LISP packages for Win32 on the LISP home page
> http://www.elwoodcorp.com/alu/table/contents.htm.
>
> BTW Corman LISP is virtually free.
>
> The only problem is that the free LISP packages for Win32 do not contain a
> GUI interface like Tk for example.
Just to be precise. There is only one "free" (both gratis and
liberated, for those who use natural languages which do not mix the
the two concepts :) ) CL system for W32: CLisp (I may be wrong).
There are a number of commercial, gratis and limited versions of CL
for W32: Franz, Harlequin, Corman (and maybe Eclipse) being the most
notable ones.
Franz and Harlequin come with proprietary and non portable, yet
complete GUI development subsystems.
Tk is good but it isn't all that great. As an aside, without Tk,
nobody would know what Tcl were. (Grammar question: did I get the
conjunctive right?)
Cheers
--
Marco Antoniotti ===========================================
PARADES, Via San Pantaleo 66, I-00186 Rome, ITALY
tel. +39 - 06 68 10 03 17, fax. +39 - 06 68 80 79 26
http://www.parades.rm.cnr.it/~marcoxa
In article <··············@parades.rm.cnr.it>,
Marco Antoniotti <·······@parades.rm.cnr.it> wrote:
> Just to be precise. There is only one "free" (both gratis and
> liberated, for those who use natural languages which do not mix the
> the two concepts :) ) CL system for W32: CLisp (I may be wrong).
>
> There are a number of commercial, gratis and limited versions of CL
> for W32: Franz, Harlequin, Corman (and maybe Eclipse) being the most
> notable ones.
If we're being precise then I want your definitions of gratis and
liberated. In any case, Corman Lisp is free. Only the IDE costs money.
Since Clisp doesn't have an IDE free or otherwise then the cost of the
IDE shouldn't count against Corman in a dispute over which is more
free. Still, not all the source for Corman Lisp is available so, on
that score, Clisp is free-er.
Sussex Poplog Common Lisp is another free Lisp for Win32. It is
available with source at:
http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/freepoplog.html
I recently ran the Gabriel benchmarks for ACL, Poplog CL, LWW, Corman,
and Clisp. Poplog CL is faster than all but ACL.
--
John Watton
Alcoa Inc.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
John Watton <···········@alcoa.com> writes:
> In article <··············@parades.rm.cnr.it>,
> Marco Antoniotti <·······@parades.rm.cnr.it> wrote:
> > Just to be precise. There is only one "free" (both gratis and
> > liberated, for those who use natural languages which do not mix the
> > the two concepts :) ) CL system for W32: CLisp (I may be wrong).
> >
> > There are a number of commercial, gratis and limited versions of CL
> > for W32: Franz, Harlequin, Corman (and maybe Eclipse) being the most
> > notable ones.
>
> If we're being precise then I want your definitions of gratis and
> liberated.
Gratis is unambiguous. You do not have to pay the product.
"Liberated" has a little too many connotations as "free" does.
"Liberated" means in this case that you can do "more" with the
"source". "Liberated" in the GNU sense has a slightly different
connotation.
I do not want to argue here about GNUness. I simply wanted to make
the point that the term "free" is ambiguous, as RMS himself
recognizes.
> In any case, Corman Lisp is free. Only the IDE costs money.
> Since Clisp doesn't have an IDE free or otherwise then the cost of the
> IDE shouldn't count against Corman in a dispute over which is more
> free. Still, not all the source for Corman Lisp is available so, on
> that score, Clisp is free-er.
Granted.
> Sussex Poplog Common Lisp is another free Lisp for Win32. It is
> available with source at:
>
> http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/freepoplog.html
>
> I recently ran the Gabriel benchmarks for ACL, Poplog CL, LWW, Corman,
> and Clisp. Poplog CL is faster than all but ACL.
I forgot about Poplog.
Cheers
--
Marco Antoniotti ===========================================
PARADES, Via San Pantaleo 66, I-00186 Rome, ITALY
tel. +39 - 06 68 10 03 17, fax. +39 - 06 68 80 79 26
http://www.parades.rm.cnr.it/~marcoxa
John Watton <···········@alcoa.com> writes:
> Still, not all the source for Corman Lisp is available so, on
> that score, Clisp is free-er.
I believe only the IDE source code is not available. You can build the
entire system from the source included with the package and get a
command line lisp out of it. I don't think you are allowed to
distribute applications developed using it unless you've paid for it
though.
Chris.
In article <··············@double.co.nz>,
Chris Double <·····@double.co.nz> wrote:
> I believe only the IDE source code is not available. You can build the
> entire system from the source included with the package and get a
> command line lisp out of it. I don't think you are allowed to
> distribute applications developed using it unless you've paid for it
> though.
From http://corman.net:
Source Code. The source code for Corman Lisp is included with this
release. Most of this source is in Common Lisp, and self-compiles. The
bootstrap kernel code is written in C, C++, and Intel assembler, and is
not included with the standard Corman Lisp release. It will be made
available, to any interested parties, as a separate package. Complete
instructions for rebuilding Corman Lisp from sources are included with
this package.
and:
You may obtain a registered copy of Corman Lisp by going to the Corman
Lisp web site and following the instructions there. By having a
registered copy you not only have the right to use the Corman Lisp IDE,
version 1.1, for an unlimited time, but you also have the right to
distribute applications created with Corman Lisp, and to redistribute
the Corman Lisp compiler, for commercial or non-personal purposes. Note
that this still does not give you the right to redistribute the Corman
Lisp release package or the Corman Lisp IDE.
--
John Watton
Alcoa Inc.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
John Watton <···········@alcoa.com> writes:
> The bootstrap kernel code is written in C, C++, and Intel assembler,
> and is not included with the standard Corman Lisp release.
This is out of date. The 1.3 release includes this.
Chris.
(1)
I seems to me that Corman LISP is virtually free but for the IDE. And if you
want to learn the language you can dispense with the IDE though I admit it
is nice.
(2)
Harequin LISP reall has a GUI toolkit but it is not contained in the free
version if I have understood that correctly.
(3)
I admit I have not looked at the other versions you mention. Of course I
know that the are around.
(4)
I agree with you as far as Tk is concerned but it is there and it is
absolutely free (I do not know how they make their money? With the books?)
and it is simple and it is of course much better than having no GUI toolkit
at all.
Janos B.
Marco Antoniotti <·······@parades.rm.cnr.it> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
··············@parades.rm.cnr.it...
>
> "Janos Blazi" <······@netsurf.de> writes:
>
> > You can find free LISP packages for Win32 on the LISP home page
> > http://www.elwoodcorp.com/alu/table/contents.htm.
> >
> > BTW Corman LISP is virtually free.
> >
> > The only problem is that the free LISP packages for Win32 do not contain
a
> > GUI interface like Tk for example.
>
> Just to be precise. There is only one "free" (both gratis and
> liberated, for those who use natural languages which do not mix the
> the two concepts :) ) CL system for W32: CLisp (I may be wrong).
>
> There are a number of commercial, gratis and limited versions of CL
> for W32: Franz, Harlequin, Corman (and maybe Eclipse) being the most
> notable ones.
>
> Franz and Harlequin come with proprietary and non portable, yet
> complete GUI development subsystems.
>
> Tk is good but it isn't all that great. As an aside, without Tk,
> nobody would know what Tcl were. (Grammar question: did I get the
> conjunctive right?)
>
> Cheers
>
> --
> Marco Antoniotti ===========================================
> PARADES, Via San Pantaleo 66, I-00186 Rome, ITALY
> tel. +39 - 06 68 10 03 17, fax. +39 - 06 68 80 79 26
> http://www.parades.rm.cnr.it/~marcoxa
"Janos Blazi" <······@netsurf.de> writes:
> (2)
> Harequin LISP reall has a GUI toolkit but it is not contained in the free
> version if I have understood that correctly.
I'm to lazy to switch to Windows right now, but IMHO the Personal
Edition of LispWorks for Windows doesn't differ from the PE Beta
for Linux in this detail. If this is correct, then both LWW and
LWL Personal Editions do include CAPI (which is Harlequin's cross-
platform GUI toolkit). What is missing from the Personal Editions
when compared to the Professional Editions is a) the CAPI Interface
Builder, which let's you build GUIs per drag'n'drop (which isn't
really that important, since CAPI let's you do this just as nicely
as Tk by hand), and b) CLIM 2.0, which is a cross-platform and
cross-vendor GUI toolkit based on different concepts than most
other GUI toolkits.
All in all I find that with the availability of free (i.e. gratis)
versions of both Franz's ACL and Harlequin's LispWorks (both for
Windows and Linux) nearly anyone who is interested in learning about
CL has plenty to choose from (IIRC Digitool also offers demonstration
versions of MCL for free download, so the situation on the Mac seems
quite alright, too).
Regs, Pierre.
--
Pierre Mai <····@acm.org> PGP and GPG keys at your nearest Keyserver
"One smaller motivation which, in part, stems from altruism is Microsoft-
bashing." [Microsoft memo, see http://www.opensource.org/halloween1.html]
I did not know at all that this CAPI stuff existed! I thought CLIM 2.0 was
the only way and I saw that it was not free. I am very interested in that.
Is there any documentation available somewhere?
Janos Blazi
Pierre R. Mai <····@acm.org> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
··············@orion.dent.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de...
> "Janos Blazi" <······@netsurf.de> writes:
>
> > (2)
> > Harequin LISP reall has a GUI toolkit but it is not contained in the
free
> > version if I have understood that correctly.
>
> I'm to lazy to switch to Windows right now, but IMHO the Personal
> Edition of LispWorks for Windows doesn't differ from the PE Beta
> for Linux in this detail. If this is correct, then both LWW and
> LWL Personal Editions do include CAPI (which is Harlequin's cross-
> platform GUI toolkit). What is missing from the Personal Editions
> when compared to the Professional Editions is a) the CAPI Interface
> Builder, which let's you build GUIs per drag'n'drop (which isn't
> really that important, since CAPI let's you do this just as nicely
> as Tk by hand), and b) CLIM 2.0, which is a cross-platform and
> cross-vendor GUI toolkit based on different concepts than most
> other GUI toolkits.
>
> All in all I find that with the availability of free (i.e. gratis)
> versions of both Franz's ACL and Harlequin's LispWorks (both for
> Windows and Linux) nearly anyone who is interested in learning about
> CL has plenty to choose from (IIRC Digitool also offers demonstration
> versions of MCL for free download, so the situation on the Mac seems
> quite alright, too).
>
> Regs, Pierre.
>
> --
> Pierre Mai <····@acm.org> PGP and GPG keys at your nearest
Keyserver
> "One smaller motivation which, in part, stems from altruism is
Microsoft-
> bashing." [Microsoft memo, see
http://www.opensource.org/halloween1.html]
"Janos Blazi" <······@netsurf.de> writes:
> I did not know at all that this CAPI stuff existed! I thought CLIM 2.0 was
> the only way and I saw that it was not free. I am very interested in that.
> Is there any documentation available somewhere?
The documentation for CAPI is part of the documentation that you get
with your LispWorks Personal Edition. It is probably available online
from the Harlequin website in their documentation section as well...
Regs, Pierre.
--
Pierre Mai <····@acm.org> PGP and GPG keys at your nearest Keyserver
"One smaller motivation which, in part, stems from altruism is Microsoft-
bashing." [Microsoft memo, see http://www.opensource.org/halloween1.html]
Janos Blazi wrote:
> I seems to me that Corman LISP is virtually free but for the IDE. And if you
> want to learn the language you can dispense with the IDE though I admit it
> is nice.
Including IDE it's 200 bucks! (100 for students). That's `virtually free'.
[On the web it states it comes with the source to the compiler, but someone
here said that not all of it is provided. What gives?]
The postings from Elwood and Corman show they have some interesting new
approachs to implementation.
If I needed CL for Windows, I'd certainly look at them, except that they don't
have CLIM [THAT DOESN'T MEAN _YOU_ NEED/WANT IT]
IMHO, the best way for them to deal with this would be to blow a little wind on
the FreeCLIM boat.
> Harequin LISP reall has a GUI toolkit but it is not contained in the free
> version if I have understood that correctly.
No. Actually, one of the things missing is the ability to run LispWorks without
the GUI (or, more generally, the -init switch). Indeed a compelling reason to
buy the real thing >:-I
[Disclaimer: 1-800-CLOS-NOW ;-)]
--
Fernando D. Mato Mira
Real-Time SW Eng & Networking
Advanced Systems Engineering Division
CSEM
Jaquet-Droz 1 email: matomira AT acm DOT org
CH-2007 Neuchatel tel: +41 (32) 720-5157
Switzerland FAX: +41 (32) 720-5720
www.csem.ch www.vrai.com ligwww.epfl.ch/matomira.html
"Fernando D. Mato Mira" wrote:
> No. Actually, one of the things missing is the ability to run LispWorks without
> the GUI (or, more generally, the -init switch).
It is hard to digest, because:
- you may save a (development) image that doesn't include CAPI
- all development tools (debugger, inspector ...) are available with the
console
- even though there are GUI inspectors at your disposal, the editor, is
basically an emacs-variant, which you may even call non-GUI
Regards
Robert
>>>>> "fmm" == Fernando D Mato Mira <········@iname.com> writes:
fmm> [On the web it states it comes with the source to the compiler,
fmm> but someone here said that not all of it is provided. What
fmm> gives?]
last time I looked, the source code for the compiler was included (as
well as for the library functions). The source code of the kernel
(memory management mostly) was not included.
As to the IDE, there was some work on making the console (which may be
used for non-commercial purposes free of charge) work with Emacs.
--
Eric Marsden
Eric Marsden <········@mail.dotcom.fr> writes:
> >>>>> "fmm" == Fernando D Mato Mira <········@iname.com> writes:
>
> fmm> [On the web it states it comes with the source to the compiler,
> fmm> but someone here said that not all of it is provided. What
> fmm> gives?]
>
> last time I looked, the source code for the compiler was included (as
> well as for the library functions). The source code of the kernel
> (memory management mostly) was not included.
The source code for the kernel has been included in the recent
versions. You can rebuild everything (expcept for the IDE) from the
source.
> As to the IDE, there was some work on making the console (which may be
> used for non-commercial purposes free of charge) work with Emacs.
This also works with the recent version (1.3).
Chris.
On 16 Nov 1999 07:30:39 +1300, Chris Double <·····@double.co.nz>
wrote:
>Eric Marsden <········@mail.dotcom.fr> writes:
>
>> >>>>> "fmm" == Fernando D Mato Mira <········@iname.com> writes:
>>
>> fmm> [On the web it states it comes with the source to the compiler,
>> fmm> but someone here said that not all of it is provided. What
>> fmm> gives?]
>>
>> last time I looked, the source code for the compiler was included (as
>> well as for the library functions). The source code of the kernel
>> (memory management mostly) was not included.
>
>The source code for the kernel has been included in the recent
>versions. You can rebuild everything (expcept for the IDE) from the
>source.
>
>> As to the IDE, there was some work on making the console (which may be
>> used for non-commercial purposes free of charge) work with Emacs.
>
>This also works with the recent version (1.3).
>
>Chris.
Thanks for clarifying, Chris. Yes, the complete sources are inlcuded
with the release distribution, and are free for personal use. The IDE
source is not included currently. The source to the console
application is included. Note that you can create GUI programs with
this version as well.
I need to update the web site, there are a few inaccuracies, and I
apologize for these.
As an aside, my decision to include all the source was based on my own
experiences. I was afaid of lisp systems for some time, because I
didn't understand them very well. Coming from a C/C++ perspective,
they seemed almost magical, and I distrust things that seem magical. I
think the antidote to the fear of the unknown is to make the source
fully available, to anyone who feels they need to see it. The source
isn't nearly as pretty as I wish--I haven't spent much time making it
pretty. But it's there if you need it for some reason. BTW it is still
copyrighted (not public domain).
Roger Corman
On 14 Nov 1999 14:08:19 +0100, Marco Antoniotti <·······@parades.rm.cnr.it>
wrote:
> Franz and Harlequin come with proprietary and non portable, yet
> complete GUI development subsystems.
Hi Marco,
Just to be precise.
Harlequin's CAPI GUI toolkit runs on
Liquid Common Lisp
which in turn runs on:
Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, IRIX
and LispWorks
which in turn runs on:
Windows (95, 98, NT, 2000), Linux (x86),
AIX, Solaris, HP-UX, IRIX, Digital
I'd hardly call this "non-portable". In a practical sense CAPI is extremely
portable. I presume you meant to imply that CAPI wasn't available on Allegro
or CMU or other Common Lisps?
__Jason