SAP is not a language - SAP is a company and an ERP system. The languages
that have been used (with various versions of the systems) are SAPScript and
ABAP. They have some sort of procedural linkage to their business objects
called BAPI's, too.
Marcel K Haesok wrote in message <·················@earthlink.net>...
>Hi,
> I was wondering where does SAP come in.
> I know SAP really pays well. Apart from its money, is it any good as
>a language?
>Thanks marcel
>
>
"Frank A. Adrian" wrote:
>
> SAP is not a language - SAP is a company and an ERP system. The languages
> that have been used (with various versions of the systems) are SAPScript and
> ABAP. They have some sort of procedural linkage to their business objects
> called BAPI's, too.
SAPscript is not a general purpose language, the only thing it is widely
used for is describing printed forms.
So then, it is very much like 'COBOL'?
Marcel
Robert Monfera wrote:
> "Frank A. Adrian" wrote:
> >
> > SAP is not a language - SAP is a company and an ERP system. The languages
> > that have been used (with various versions of the systems) are SAPScript and
> > ABAP. They have some sort of procedural linkage to their business objects
> > called BAPI's, too.
>
> SAPscript is not a general purpose language, the only thing it is widely
> used for is describing printed forms.
Sorry, but, what is ERP? and VW?
Marcel.
"Frank A. Adrian" wrote:
> SAP is not a language - SAP is a company and an ERP system. The languages
> that have been used (with various versions of the systems) are SAPScript and
> ABAP. They have some sort of procedural linkage to their business objects
> called BAPI's, too.
>
> Marcel K Haesok wrote in message <·················@earthlink.net>...
> >Hi,
> > I was wondering where does SAP come in.
> > I know SAP really pays well. Apart from its money, is it any good as
> >a language?
> >Thanks marcel
> >
> >
Marcel K Haesok wrote:
> Sorry, but, what is ERP? and VW?
ERP: Enterprise Resource Planning. ERP development and consulting has
been the most successful branch of business IT for the last 6-10 years
in some senses of the word. Standard ERP software vendors: SAP,
Peoplesoft, Oracle, Baan. You can go to www.sap.com and check it out.
VW: Volkswaken. A popular European car brand.
I hope this helps. Robert
Robert Monfera wrote:
>
> Marcel K Haesok wrote:
>
> > Sorry, but, what is ERP? and VW?
>
> ERP: Enterprise Resource Planning. ERP development and consulting has
> been the most successful branch of business IT for the last 6-10 years
> in some senses of the word. Standard ERP software vendors: SAP,
> Peoplesoft, Oracle, Baan. You can go to www.sap.com and check it out.
>
> VW: Volkswaken. A popular European car brand.
>
> I hope this helps. Robert
VW = Volkswagen , but here in comp.lang.smalltalk it usually refers to
Visualworks from Objectshare. (check out http://www.objectshare.com)
Bye,
Herman
dear sir, please tell me more about ERP as I am interested in doing this
course. I am from India.
I am an MBA with 4 yrs functional exp.
also I develop software on Oracle/developer2000.
If possible can u tell me the job opportunities after this course(especially
for freshers).
Thanks!
P.S.: Send the reply on my ····················@hotmail.com
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
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On Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:38:36 GMT, ··············@my-dejanews.com
<··············@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>dear sir, please tell me more about ERP as I am interested in doing this
>course. I am from India.
>
>I am an MBA with 4 yrs functional exp.
>also I develop software on Oracle/developer2000.
We can tell you that there are not ERP systems implemented using Lisp or
Smalltalk, and that newsgroups on those languages aren't terribly
relevant to either ERP, or Oracle Developer 2000...
Is there a suitable lambda function for this?
--
"never post anything you don't want to see on your resume..." -- Martin
Minow <·····@pobox.com>
········@ntlug.org- <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/langlisp.html>
Christopher Browne wrote:
...
> We can tell you that there are not ERP systems implemented using Lisp or...
Does anyone know why? ERP systems are large, aim at solving complex
requirements, have to be scalable, do a lot of symbolic and numeric
processing etc. Are other languages more suitable for it?!?!
Robert
On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:11:32 -0400, Robert Monfera <·······@fisec.com>
posted:
>Christopher Browne wrote:
>...
>> We can tell you that there are not ERP systems implemented using Lisp or...
>
>Does anyone know why? ERP systems are large, aim at solving complex
>requirements, have to be scalable, do a lot of symbolic and numeric
>processing etc. Are other languages more suitable for it?!?!
They tend to involve lots of SQL database work, data dictionaries, and
attract a lot of people that probably used to program in COBOL.
The people that do ERP would, as vast generality, be absolutely scared
to death by the mere *mention* of lambda functions, whether that fear
be justified or not...
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
-- Henry Spencer <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
········@hex.net - "What have you contributed to free software today?..."
········@news.brownes.org (Christopher B. Browne) writes:
> The people that do ERP would, as vast generality, be absolutely scared
> to death by the mere *mention* of lambda functions, whether that fear
> be justified or not...
Well, SAP has invested in and runs projects with the DFKI (the german
research center for artificial intelligence), so I'm quite sure they
at lest meet some people that would *like* to program in lisp ;-)
--
espen
Robert Monfera <·······@fisec.com> writes:
> Christopher Browne wrote:
> ...
> > We can tell you that there are not ERP systems implemented using Lisp or...
>
> Does anyone know why? ERP systems are large, aim at solving complex
> requirements, have to be scalable, do a lot of symbolic and numeric
> processing etc. Are other languages more suitable for it?!?!
>
Intercal?
--
Marco Antoniotti ===========================================
PARADES, Via San Pantaleo 66, I-00186 Rome, ITALY
tel. +39 - 06 68 10 03 17, fax. +39 - 06 68 80 79 26
http://www.parades.rm.cnr.it/~marcoxa
Christopher Browne (········@news.hex.net) wrote:
: We can tell you that there are not ERP systems implemented using
: Lisp or Smalltalk, and that newsgroups on those languages aren't
: terribly relevant to either ERP, or Oracle Developer 2000...
I can tell you that ERP stands for Enterprise Resource Planning.
Try going to www.ask.com and enter "What does ERP stand for?" and it will lead you to some useful information.
I can also tell you that I have developed interfaces for SAP R3 using
both VisualSmalltalk/Enterprise and Gemstone Smalltalk, so I know they
can be relevant.
--
Patrick D. Logan ····················@home.com
Yep, www.ask.com is a great search tool. I was at PC Magazine today and
they just put it in their Top 100 most useful sites. Thanks for reminding
me to use it myself, Patrick.
Cheers,
In article <···················@news.rdc1.wa.home.com>, ·······@c837917-
a.potlnd1.or.home.com articulates that:
> Christopher Browne (········@news.hex.net) wrote:
>
> : We can tell you that there are not ERP systems implemented using
> : Lisp or Smalltalk, and that newsgroups on those languages aren't
> : terribly relevant to either ERP, or Oracle Developer 2000...
>
> I can tell you that ERP stands for Enterprise Resource Planning.
>
> Try going to www.ask.com and enter "What does ERP stand for?" and it will lead you to some useful information.
>
> I can also tell you that I have developed interfaces for SAP R3 using
> both VisualSmalltalk/Enterprise and Gemstone Smalltalk, so I know they
> can be relevant.
>
> --
> Patrick D. Logan ····················@home.com
>
In article <··························@news.cybernautics.com>,
······@interrod.com wrote:
> Yep, www.ask.com is a great search tool. I was at PC Magazine today and
> they just put it in their Top 100 most useful sites. Thanks for reminding
> me to use it myself, Patrick.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> In article <···················@news.rdc1.wa.home.com>, ·······@c837917-
> a.potlnd1.or.home.com articulates that:
> > Christopher Browne (········@news.hex.net) wrote:
> >
> > : We can tell you that there are not ERP systems implemented using
> > : Lisp or Smalltalk, and that newsgroups on those languages aren't
> > : terribly relevant to either ERP, or Oracle Developer 2000...
> >
> > I can tell you that ERP stands for Enterprise Resource Planning.
> >
> > Try going to www.ask.com and enter "What does ERP stand for?" and it
will lead you to some useful information.
Effective Radiated Power
Unless I'm getting my wires crossed here, isn't SAP an ERP? It's really a
whole suite of modules designed to help companies run their departments in
sync - ie distribution, warehouse ops, accounting, payroll and all that.
It's a complete nightmare to configure and set up right. If you are
proficient with any of the ERPs (PeopleSoft, Baan, SAP, JD Edwards, etc.)
then you can make some serious money. Boring as all hell though!!
Regsrds,
Andrew
Marcel K Haesok wrote in message <·················@earthlink.net>...
>Hi,
> I was wondering where does SAP come in.
> I know SAP really pays well. Apart from its money, is it any good as
>a language?
>Thanks marcel
>
>
On Thu, 18 Mar 1999 21:33:07 -0800, Marcel K Haesok <······@earthlink.net> posted:
> I was wondering where does SAP come in.
> I know SAP really pays well. Apart from its money, is it any good as
>a language?
SAP is the name of a German company, not the name of a language.
The main language that the R/3 ERP system (the software sold by said
company) uses is called ABAP/4.
ABAP/4 somewhat resembles a cross between COBOL, PL/SQL, with a touch
of PL/1 thrown in.
There is a sort of expression known as a "field" that very vaguely
resembles a lambda expression; ABAP/4 has macros that resemble C
macros far more than any Lisp varieties. It seems to lack closures,
and has a limited form of lexical scoping.
The relevance of ABAP/4 in a Lisp newsgroup is quite entirely
questionable, as it bears minimal resemblance to any of the variations
of Lisp.
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
-- Henry Spencer <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/langabap4.html>
········@hex.net - "What have you contributed to free software today?..."
Christopher B. Browne wrote in message ...
>ABAP/4 somewhat resembles a cross between COBOL, PL/SQL, with a touch
>of PL/1 thrown in.
>
>There is a sort of expression known as a "field" that very vaguely
>resembles a lambda expression; ABAP/4 has macros that resemble C
>macros far more than any Lisp varieties. It seems to lack closures,
>and has a limited form of lexical scoping.
>
>The relevance of ABAP/4 in a Lisp newsgroup is quite entirely
>questionable, as it bears minimal resemblance to any of the variations
>of Lisp.
So this means ABAP/4 == Bad language or not?
I've always wandered about the language used in SAP and the other ERPs.
Could you post some typical code snippet?
Richard
On 19 Mar 1999 19:07:57 GMT, Richard Ronteltap <········@euronet.nl> wrote:
>Christopher B. Browne wrote in message ...
>>ABAP/4 somewhat resembles a cross between COBOL, PL/SQL, with a touch
>>of PL/1 thrown in.
>>
>>There is a sort of expression known as a "field" that very vaguely
>>resembles a lambda expression; ABAP/4 has macros that resemble C
>>macros far more than any Lisp varieties. It seems to lack closures,
>>and has a limited form of lexical scoping.
>>
>>The relevance of ABAP/4 in a Lisp newsgroup is quite entirely
>>questionable, as it bears minimal resemblance to any of the variations
>>of Lisp.
>
>
>So this means ABAP/4 == Bad language or not?
>
>I've always wandered about the language used in SAP and the other ERPs.
>Could you post some typical code snippet?
Here's a bit...
Note that the parts that look cryptic generally are either table or
field names. Since R/3 is basically written by German programmers, the
names of tables/fields tend to represent abbreviated "German-lish."
It's pseudo-event-driven, so that:
- START-OF-SELECTION represents the code at the start of the "event"
that is "starting to evaluate a report."
- INITIALIZATION gets run before START-OF-SELECTION.
- There are "TOP-OF-PAGE," "BOTTOM-OF-PAGE," and other such "events"
that are of some value when writing reports.
As a language, it's certainly not Lisp, but comparing to comparable
languages, it's not horrible.
What does tend to be horrible is the fact that the data dictionary is
drastically cryptic.
INCLUDE BDCRECXX.
INITIALIZATION.
REFRESH RESTAB.
START-OF-SELECTION.
DATA MSG(40).
CONCATENATE 'Run type: ' RUNTYPE INTO MSG.
PERFORM SUMMARIZE USING 'RUNTYPE' MSG.
CASE RUNTYPE.
WHEN 'CONV'. " OK
WHEN 'DAILY'. " OK
WHEN 'PAYPLAN'. " OK
WHEN OTHERS.
WRITE: / 'Bad value for RUNTYPE'.
ULINE.
WRITE: / 'Valid values: '.
ULINE.
WRITE: / 'CONV - Conversion - IT8 is dated PA0008-BEGDA'.
WRITE: / 'PAYPLAN - Pay Plan run-IT8 is dated on PLANDATE'.
WRITE: / 'DAILY - Daily run to turn 9101 entries to MRs'.
EXIT.
ENDCASE.
CALL FUNCTION 'BDC_OPEN_GROUP'
EXPORTING
CLIENT = SY-MANDT
GROUP = BDCNAME
USER = SY-UNAME.
END-OF-SELECTION.
CALL FUNCTION 'BDC_CLOSE_GROUP'.
PERFORM REPORT_ON_RESTAB.
GET PERNR.
SELECT * FROM PA0008 WHERE PERNR EQ PERNR-PERNR AND
BEGDA BETWEEN PN/BEGDA AND PN/ENDDA AND
ENDDA BETWEEN PN/BEGDA AND PN/ENDDA AND
TRFAR IN TRFAR.
* Find any MR/9101 wage types
CLEAR P0008.
MOVE-CORRESPONDING PA0008 TO P0008.
PERFORM CALCULATE_MR_WAGETYPE USING P0008 CHANGING MRLGART.
IF MRLGART NE SPACE. " If there was a MR** or 9101 wage type...
SELECT * FROM PA0001 WHERE PERNR EQ PERNR-PERNR AND
BEGDA LE PA0008-BEGDA AND ENDDA GE PA0008-BEGDA.
MOVE-CORRESPONDING PA0001 TO P0001.
CHECK P0001-BTRTL IN BTRTL.
" Check against selection option
EXIT.
ENDSELECT.
SELECT * FROM PA0041 WHERE PERNR EQ PERNR-PERNR AND
BEGDA LE PA0008-BEGDA AND ENDDA GE PA0008-BEGDA.
MOVE-CORRESPONDING PA0041 TO P0041.
EXIT.
ENDSELECT.
ENDIF.
ENDSELECT.
--
"Besides a mathematical inclination, an exceptionally good mastery of
one's native tongue is the most vital asset of a competent programmer."
-- Edsger W.Dijkstra
········@hex.net- <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/langabap4.html>
Chris, about your quotation---
How does a programmer identify his 'native tongue'? Marcel
Christopher Browne wrote:--
> "Besides a mathematical inclination, an exceptionally good mastery of
> one's native tongue is the most vital asset of a competent programmer."
> -- Edsger W.Dijkstra
> ········@hex.net- <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/langabap4.html>
Marcel K Haesok <······@earthlink.net> writes:
> Chris, about your quotation---
> How does a programmer identify his 'native tongue'? Marcel
> Christopher Browne wrote:--
>
> > "Besides a mathematical inclination, an exceptionally good mastery of
> > one's native tongue is the most vital asset of a competent programmer."
> > -- Edsger W.Dijkstra
You're not having a kind of identity crisis, are you Marcel? If you
for example you were born in the United States, and your parents speak
American English, and you attended a school in which your teachers
instructed you in American English, and when you find yourself
thinking, you are thinking in American English - then I'd have to
reason that in such a case American English might be a good candidate
for one's "native tongue."
But if your parents come from a mixed French/American background and
spoke both languages an equal ammount, and you frequently moved back
and forth between France and the United States as a child, attending
schools in which you were instructed only in one or the other
language, and you find yourself thinking in both languages, even
intermixing the two within your head, and instead of embracing and
enjoying this you have a pathological sense of a lack of a "native
tongue" and not belonging, then psychological analysis and treatment
may be very therapeutic for such an affliction.
Christopher
Oh, I got ya. I at first thought that Edsger was referring to a particular
'computer language', metaphorically speaking as it were--- Apparently that
wasn't the case.
Marcel
"Christopher R. Barry" wrote:
> Marcel K Haesok <······@earthlink.net> writes:
>
> > Chris, about your quotation---
> > How does a programmer identify his 'native tongue'? Marcel
>
> > Christopher Browne wrote:--
> >
> > > "Besides a mathematical inclination, an exceptionally good mastery of
> > > one's native tongue is the most vital asset of a competent programmer."
> > > -- Edsger W.Dijkstra
>
> You're not having a kind of identity crisis, are you Marcel? If you
> for example you were born in the United States, and your parents speak
> American English, and you attended a school in which your teachers
> instructed you in American English, and when you find yourself
> thinking, you are thinking in American English - then I'd have to
> reason that in such a case American English might be a good candidate
> for one's "native tongue."
>
> But if your parents come from a mixed French/American background and
> spoke both languages an equal ammount, and you frequently moved back
> and forth between France and the United States as a child, attending
> schools in which you were instructed only in one or the other
> language, and you find yourself thinking in both languages, even
> intermixing the two within your head, and instead of embracing and
> enjoying this you have a pathological sense of a lack of a "native
> tongue" and not belonging, then psychological analysis and treatment
> may be very therapeutic for such an affliction.
>
> Christopher
In article <·················@earthlink.net>,
Marcel K Haesok <······@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Oh, I got ya. I at first thought that Edsger was referring to a particular
> 'computer language', metaphorically speaking as it were--- Apparently that
> wasn't the case.
> Marcel
Why didn't you ask Edsger directly when he said that, as you were obviously
having beer together at the time---or was it visual beer?
By the way, now that you know what SAP, ERP, and VW is, could you explain
how they relate to Java or Lisp or Smalltalk?
(Just in case: the B in BMW does not stand for BASIC but for Bayerische.
And the MW does not stand for Microsoft Windows.)
Vassil, deliberately leaving the list of groups as it was
Vassil Nikolov <········@poboxes.com> www.poboxes.com/vnikolov
(You may want to cc your posting to me if I _have_ to see it.)
LEGEMANVALEMFVTVTVM (Ancient Roman programmers' adage.)
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Christopher Browne wrote in message ...
>On 19 Mar 1999 19:07:57 GMT, Richard Ronteltap <········@euronet.nl> wrote:
>>I've always wandered about the language used in SAP and the other ERPs.
>>Could you post some typical code snippet?
>
>Here's a bit...
<snip>
Ok, ok, pretty awful. Feels like of Clipper + Informix 4GL going haywire.
Thanks for the info,
Richard
"Christopher B. Browne" wrote:
> The relevance of ABAP/4 in a Lisp newsgroup is quite entirely
> questionable, as it bears minimal resemblance to any of the variations
> of Lisp.
I agree with this, but being involved in both, I can not stop mentioning
a few weak signs of relevance.
Even though ABAP/4 is not an elegant or powerful language, it has
recently been enriched by object orientation. The brochure
(http://www.sap.com/products/techno/pdf/50016303.pdf) makes it clear
that the designers knew about multiple argument dispatch, multiple
inheritance, metaobjects etc., and avoided them. ABAP is a garbage
collected language though.
A similarity to Lisp-based products is that the SAP environment can be
developed on the fly. Programs are compiled just in time. New tables
and screens can be added while thousands are actively using the system.
SAP and Lisp both tend to cover large, complex application areas, where
they like to be the center of the universe.
SAP has made a direct investment in ILOG, an ex-Lisper company:
http://www.ilog.com/corporate/releases/us/980630_sap_invest.cfm
One interesting weakness of ABAP is that although it encourages modular
programming (including passing parameters around), it does not encourage
functional programming. For example you can not define functions. I
found it funny that you mentioned the lack of closures.
ABAP is probably based on a virtual machine, and new platforms are
conquered rapidly. R/3, a Unix port of the original mainframe product
R/2, now runs under AS/400, S/390, nt and a Linux version has also been
announced. Native Lisp compilers are not available for AS/400. Nobody
needed it so far? (Eclipse and other Lisp->C compilers should work
fine.)
I liked your reference to macros: as ABAP/4 lacks symbol processing
altogether, it uses heavy string glueing for program generation.
Program generation is aggressively used, for example, to translate
interface or report builders or to translate some configuration.
It would be interesting to know how Lisp folks in SAP consulting or
development cope with R/3's strengths and weaknesses, how they can
exploit their need for abstraction, or otherwise bring Lisp ideas to SAP
or SAP ideas to their Lisp based development.
Regards
Robert
On Sat, 20 Mar 1999 20:29:52 -0500, Robert Monfera <·······@fisec.com>
posted:
>It would be interesting to know how Lisp folks in SAP consulting or
>development cope with R/3's strengths and weaknesses, how they can
>exploit their need for abstraction, or otherwise bring Lisp ideas to SAP
>or SAP ideas to their Lisp based development.
For something quite different, look at ``Using J with OLE2 to Build
Configuration Software for SAP AG.''
<http://www.jsoftware.com/pubs/causeway.zip> The developers built
software in J, "successor to APL," to help manage R/3 configuration.
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
-- Henry Spencer <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/langobscure.html>
········@hex.net - "What have you contributed to free software today?..."