Hello all,
Back in the early/mid 1980's, I had the absolute pleasure
of having a Xerox 1108 LISP machine in my office.
A few years ago at a Lisp Users Vendor (LUV) conference,
I was talking to some people in a booth who had acquired
the rights to sell InterLISP-D for PCs.
Something ideal would be a low cost -:) non-commercial license
that is runable under Linux. I would like, for my own hacking
pleasure, a GREAT LISP ENVIRONMENT for Linux (Franz 5.0 for
Linux looks great, but it is too expensive for casual use).
I find CLISP, CMU Lisp, and the 'free' Franz 4.1 LISP for
Linux to be very usable, but I miss having a great IDE also.
Thanks in advance for any information,
Mark
-- Mark Watson, consultant and author of 11 books on AI, Java, C++.
-- Please visit www.markwatson.com for Open Source Java, etc.
From: Klaus Schilling
Subject: Re: Q: InterLISP-D for Intel PCs?
Date:
Message-ID: <87emsz93c1.fsf@ivm.de>
Mark Watson <·····@sedona.net> writes:
> Hello all,
>
> Back in the early/mid 1980's, I had the absolute pleasure
> of having a Xerox 1108 LISP machine in my office.
>
> A few years ago at a Lisp Users Vendor (LUV) conference,
> I was talking to some people in a booth who had acquired
> the rights to sell InterLISP-D for PCs.
>
> Something ideal would be a low cost -:) non-commercial license
> that is runable under Linux. I would like, for my own hacking
> pleasure, a GREAT LISP ENVIRONMENT for Linux (Franz 5.0 for
> Linux looks great, but it is too expensive for casual use).
> I find CLISP, CMU Lisp, and the 'free' Franz 4.1 LISP for
> Linux to be very usable, but I miss having a great IDE also.
Emacs with ilisp extension.
Klaus Schilling
In article <··············@ivm.de>, Klaus Schilling
<···············@home.ivm.de> wrote:
> Mark Watson <·····@sedona.net> writes:
>
> > Hello all,
> >
> > Back in the early/mid 1980's, I had the absolute pleasure
> > of having a Xerox 1108 LISP machine in my office.
> >
> > A few years ago at a Lisp Users Vendor (LUV) conference,
> > I was talking to some people in a booth who had acquired
> > the rights to sell InterLISP-D for PCs.
> >
> > Something ideal would be a low cost -:) non-commercial license
> > that is runable under Linux. I would like, for my own hacking
> > pleasure, a GREAT LISP ENVIRONMENT for Linux (Franz 5.0 for
> > Linux looks great, but it is too expensive for casual use).
> > I find CLISP, CMU Lisp, and the 'free' Franz 4.1 LISP for
> > Linux to be very usable, but I miss having a great IDE also.
>
> Emacs with ilisp extension.
>
> Klaus Schilling
You shouldn't mention this in one mail together with
Xerox Lisp machines. Sigh.
* Klaus Schilling wrote:
> Mark Watson <·····@sedona.net> writes:
(about dmachines)
>> but I miss having a great IDE also.
> Emacs with ilisp extension.
Not in the same league.
--tim
Hi!
In article <·················@sedona.net>, Mark Watson <·····@sedona.net> wrote:
>Back in the early/mid 1980's, I had the absolute pleasure
>of having a Xerox 1108 LISP machine in my office.
Fun. Two out of five rescued systems are standing at home (Rainer, before
you ask: the others are at friends of me). I quite like them. Cool system,
although it is far simpler than Genera.
>A few years ago at a Lisp Users Vendor (LUV) conference,
>I was talking to some people in a booth who had acquired
>the rights to sell InterLISP-D for PCs.
I do have one of those implementations. A kind soul around here had a
spare one to share. It is quite nice, although highly limited: it only
runs under plain DOS due to it's own implementation of on DOS-extender.
And it is quite instable - I often have crashes when doing something that
needs a bit more resources. The best thing is still the real thing - the
Xerox machines themself seldom crash.
>pleasure, a GREAT LISP ENVIRONMENT for Linux (Franz 5.0 for
>Linux looks great, but it is too expensive for casual use).
Uh - ACL for Linux is actually free for non-commercial use ... will they
change that with the 5.0 release? I didn't see anything like that on their
homepage. But anyway, I still would like the Interlisp-D environment much
more over the ACL 5 environment. But then, I am a bit of a nostalgic
regarding computers.
The other option would be to switch to the Mac. I think it was worth it
alone for Macintosh Common Lisp ;-)
bye, Georg
--
http://www.westfalen.de/hugo/
In article <···················@jill.westfalen.de>, ··@hugo.westfalen.de
(Georg Bauer) wrote:
> >of having a Xerox 1108 LISP machine in my office.
>
> Fun. Two out of five rescued systems are standing at home (Rainer, before
> you ask: the others are at friends of me). I quite like them. Cool system,
> although it is far simpler than Genera.
How did they pass the test? Are they worthy?
In article <·······················@pbg3.lavielle.com>,
······@lavielle.com (Rainer Joswig) wrote:
>How did they pass the test? Are they worthy?
The machines or the friends? ;-)
bye, Georg
--
http://www.westfalen.de/hugo/
Hello Georg,
> The other option would be to switch to the Mac. I think it was worth it
> alone for Macintosh Common Lisp ;-)
I used to use a Mac and Perl, then Mac Common Lisp. In fact, the first
Springer-Verlag Lisp book was written using Mac Common Lisp for the
examples. Years ago, I let my Xerox 1108 go, immediately after I
ported the ISI Grapher to Mac Common Lisp.
Thanks for your comments,
Mark
-- Mark Watson, consultant and author of 11 books on AI, Java, C++.
-- Please visit www.markwatson.com for Open Source Java, etc.
In article <·················@sedona.net>, Mark Watson <·····@sedona.net> wrote:
> examples. Years ago, I let my Xerox 1108 go, immediately after I
> ported the ISI Grapher to Mac Common Lisp.
Maybe somebody could convince Symbolics to port Open Genera to the PC
(not very likely, though). Otherwise you could use it on DEC Alpha.
In article <·······················@194.163.195.67>, ······@lavielle.com
(Rainer Joswig) wrote:
>Otherwise you could use it on DEC Alpha
DEC Alpha + Open VMS + Open Genera = ??? Dollars - a lot I would think.
Nah, I think I stay with my Mac, regardless how much I like Genera. I can
always switch on my XL1201 if I want to see the real thing. Good that I
got the CD-ROMs before they went out of business for the second time ...
And maybe one day I have the spare money to buy a current MCL release (I
am still at 4.0) and a CLIM license ... (last time I put the money into my
new old Mac)
bye, Georg
--
http://www.westfalen.de/hugo/
In article <···················@jill.westfalen.de>, ··@hugo.westfalen.de
(Georg Bauer) wrote:
> In article <·······················@194.163.195.67>, ······@lavielle.com
> (Rainer Joswig) wrote:
>
> >Otherwise you could use it on DEC Alpha
>
> DEC Alpha + Open VMS + Open Genera = ??? Dollars - a lot I would think.
No. Not Open VMS.
DEC Alpha + DIGITAL Unix + Open Genera. Open Genera will be around $5000.
You can get Alpha Boards and than assemble your own machine.
See for example: http://www.quant-x.com/ . I guess prices for current
systems will come down once the new 21264 Alpha processor is available
and/or once Compaq delivers their new systems.
And: if Symbolics would port Open Genera to Linux/Alpha you would
not need to pay for the DIGITAL Unix license. Maybe later.
Unfortunately SUN machines are a bit more mainstream. I'd like
a port to our new SUN Enterprise 250. Sigh.
> Nah, I think I stay with my Mac, regardless how much I like Genera. I can
> always switch on my XL1201 if I want to see the real thing.
Huh? You are switching the machine off? What a waste. ;-)
> Good that I
> got the CD-ROMs before they went out of business for the second time ...
They are alive. Symbolics Technology Inc. is the name. They
are working on Open Genera 2.0. I've seen it. There is still
support for hard- and software.
> And maybe one day I have the spare money to buy a current MCL release (I
> am still at 4.0) and a CLIM license ... (last time I put the money into my
> new old Mac)
Not that bad either. G3 Powerbooks + MCL. :-)
Interestingly these DEC Alphas are fast.
I mean really fast. The Ivory emulator seems to be quite usable
(maybe 3-5 times faster than your XL1201).
I ran a small test (parsing/summing a 15 MB web proxy file) and it
was almost as fast as my 292 Mhz G3 PowerBook.
--
http://www.lavielle.com/~joswig
Hi!
>DEC Alpha + DIGITAL Unix + Open Genera. Open Genera will be around $5000.
Ugh. That outrules this a bit for me at home ;-)
>Huh? You are switching the machine off? What a waste. ;-)
Uhm. Actually having it up and running all the time is a waste. Of
electricity. ;-)
My main problem currently is the bad state of the console - I still use
the one from the 3645 and it has a really bad screen. I would have to find
a better one some time, or get the X-thingy up and running and use my SUN
3 or my Mac as a display.
>They are alive. Symbolics Technology Inc. is the name.
Cool! Last time I heard of them (that was shortly after their selling
action where I got my XL1201 from) they were going down for the second
time.
>Not that bad either. G3 Powerbooks + MCL. :-)
Nah, I just have a 275 Mhz 603e - quite fast enough for me. Although I am
thinking about an iMac with MCL.
bye, Georg
--
http://www.westfalen.de/hugo/
In article <···················@hugo.westfalen.de>, ··@hugo.westfalen.de
(Georg Bauer) wrote:
> >Huh? You are switching the machine off? What a waste. ;-)
>
> Uhm. Actually having it up and running all the time is a waste. Of
> electricity. ;-)
Keep it busy.
> a better one some time, or get the X-thingy up and running and use my SUN
> 3 or my Mac as a display.
Exodus on a Mac is o.k. (MacX is not that good).
Then do "Start X Screen ..." from your Lisp machine.
To speed things up install the Symbolics Genera fonts
on your X server.
> >Not that bad either. G3 Powerbooks + MCL. :-)
>
> Nah, I just have a 275 Mhz 603e - quite fast enough for me. Although I am
> thinking about an iMac with MCL.
iMacs are not that cheap in Germany. Anyway you would need
additional memory. Or get a G3 PowerBook with 384 MB RAM. ;-)
Maybe you want to wait for the Altivec enhanced PowerPC processors
from Motorola (http://www.mot.com/SPS/PowerPC/AltiVec/ ,
http://developer.apple.com/hardware/altivec/). It would
be **neat** if MCL could generate code for these beasts.
--
http://www.lavielle.com/~joswig
In article <·················@sedona.net>, Mark Watson <·····@sedona.net> wrote:
>I used to use a Mac and Perl, then Mac Common Lisp.
Funny. Both are my preferred environments, too :-)
bye, Georg
--
http://www.westfalen.de/hugo/
Mark Watson wrote in message <·················@sedona.net>...
>Hello all,
>
>Back in the early/mid 1980's, I had the absolute pleasure
>of having a Xerox 1108 LISP machine in my office.
>
>A few years ago at a Lisp Users Vendor (LUV) conference,
>I was talking to some people in a booth who had acquired
>the rights to sell InterLISP-D for PCs.
Many years ago I obtained the Fortran source to an Interlisp
(subset) interpreter. It was called LISPF4. I used it for a few
years. It's what I learned lisp on. It worked well, never crashed,
and was a lot of fun.
I attempted to convert it to C many years ago but never quite
got it working. I only spent a day on it. I'm sure another couple
of days would have done it.
I spoke with the author via e-mail a few years ago
(·····@csd.uu.se (Mats Nordstrom)) about getting the latest
version (if I didn't already have it) and making it PD. I
think he said he'd look for it when he had a chance. I haven't
been able to get him to respond to e-mail since.
As old as it is I think I'd feel comfortable distributing it if
anyone is interested. It came with two manuals in paper.
I should scan it in.
--blake
--
Download source code to my Dynace Object Oriented
Extension to C and Windows Development System from:
http://www.edge.net/algorithms
Blake McBride (·····@edge.net)
Algorithms Corporation - 615-791-1636 - USA