From: Dan Higdon
Subject: Is GCL a decent CL system?
Date: 
Message-ID: <co411.3056$Ni5.3754746@news.giganews.com>
Is GCL (Gnu Common Lisp, was Kyoto CL, I think) a decent
CL implementation?  I'm just getting Linux going on my system,
and I want a decent CL development system, preferably without
shelling out cash for a professional system.  :-)

I'm interested in integration with C routines (and Xlib) where possible,
and at least passable exectution speed/size.  Thanks.

----------------------------------------
····@charybdis.com
There's no one left to finger
No one here to blame

From: Mike McDonald
Subject: Re: Is GCL a decent CL system?
Date: 
Message-ID: <yN511.2585$Fu5.2215146@news2.teleport.com>
In article <······················@news.giganews.com>,
	"Dan Higdon" <····@charybdis.com> writes:
> Is GCL (Gnu Common Lisp, was Kyoto CL, I think) a decent
> CL implementation?  I'm just getting Linux going on my system,
> and I want a decent CL development system, preferably without
> shelling out cash for a professional system.  :-)

  In my opinion, NO! Get CMUCL from cons.org for a PD
version or get Franz's ACL for Linux from them for
free. (www.franz.com)

> I'm interested in integration with C routines (and Xlib) where possible,
> and at least passable exectution speed/size.  Thanks.

  C routines for X? Use CLX!

  Mike McDonald
  ·······@mikemac.com
From: Raymond Toy
Subject: Re: Is GCL a decent CL system?
Date: 
Message-ID: <4nwwcbymoi.fsf@rtp.ericsson.se>
·······@mikemac.com (Mike McDonald) writes:

> In article <······················@news.giganews.com>,
> 	"Dan Higdon" <····@charybdis.com> writes:
> > Is GCL (Gnu Common Lisp, was Kyoto CL, I think) a decent
> > CL implementation?  I'm just getting Linux going on my system,
> > and I want a decent CL development system, preferably without
> > shelling out cash for a professional system.  :-)
> 
>   In my opinion, NO! Get CMUCL from cons.org for a PD
> version or get Franz's ACL for Linux from them for
> free. (www.franz.com)

CLISP is another decent choice.  Not quite ANSI, but pretty close.
Reasonably small too.

> 
> > I'm interested in integration with C routines (and Xlib) where possible,
> > and at least passable exectution speed/size.  Thanks.
> 
>   C routines for X? Use CLX!
> 

Indeed.  Although I understand some did a C interface to Xlib for
CLISP.  3 times faster than CLX.  (A bit hazy.  This was quite a while 
ago.)

For interfacing to C, CMUCL is probably the easiest.  CLISP and GCL
can also, but perhaps not quite as easy.

Ray
From: Jeff Dalton
Subject: Re: Is GCL a decent CL system?
Date: 
Message-ID: <x2wwc8zdcy.fsf@gairsay.aiai.ed.ac.uk>
Raymond Toy <···@rtp.ericsson.se> writes:

> For interfacing to C, CMUCL is probably the easiest.  CLISP and GCL
> can also, but perhaps not quite as easy.

It depends on what you're doing.  Last year, I wrote a basic
HTTP server in Common Lisp.  Some C was also needed.  It was
far easier to do this in GCL than in, say, Lucid or Allegro.
I don't think CMU CL would be any better, though I didn't
look into it in detail.  And CMU CL is pretty huge.

-- jeff
From: Raymond Toy
Subject: Re: Is GCL a decent CL system?
Date: 
Message-ID: <4nu37ce30n.fsf@rtp.ericsson.se>
Jeff Dalton <····@gairsay.aiai.ed.ac.uk> writes:

> Raymond Toy <···@rtp.ericsson.se> writes:
> 
> > For interfacing to C, CMUCL is probably the easiest.  CLISP and GCL
> > can also, but perhaps not quite as easy.
> 
> It depends on what you're doing.  Last year, I wrote a basic
> HTTP server in Common Lisp.  Some C was also needed.  It was
> far easier to do this in GCL than in, say, Lucid or Allegro.
> I don't think CMU CL would be any better, though I didn't
> look into it in detail.

Can't say anything about Lucid or Allegro, but the last time I tried
interfacing C with GCL, it was fairly hard, especially because of the
lack of documentation.  Interfacing C with CMUCL is usually quite easy 
and basically consists of just slightly modifying the C function
prototype into the appropriate Lisp style.

>  And CMU CL is pretty huge.

Yes, the major disadvantage of CMUCL.

Ray
From: Jeff Dalton
Subject: Re: Is GCL a decent CL system?
Date: 
Message-ID: <x2d8dxbxgj.fsf@gairsay.aiai.ed.ac.uk>
Raymond Toy <···@rtp.ericsson.se> writes:

> Jeff Dalton <····@gairsay.aiai.ed.ac.uk> writes:

> > Raymond Toy <···@rtp.ericsson.se> writes:

> > > For interfacing to C, CMUCL is probably the easiest.  CLISP and GCL
> > > can also, but perhaps not quite as easy.

> > It depends on what you're doing.  Last year, I wrote a basic
> > HTTP server in Common Lisp.  Some C was also needed.  It was
> > far easier to do this in GCL than in, say, Lucid or Allegro.
> > I don't think CMU CL would be any better, though I didn't
> > look into it in detail.

> Can't say anything about Lucid or Allegro, but the last time I tried
> interfacing C with GCL, it was fairly hard, especially because of the
> lack of documentation.

It depends on what you want to do.  If you have some existing,
compiled, C code in .o files, or in libraries, then GCL may
not be such a good choice.  (I haven't tried it for that kind
of thing for a long time.)

But if I just want some C procedure (e.g. to do a socket operation)
that I can call, then I find it much easier to do this in GCL than
in other Lisps.  (And this remains so when the C code will call
Lisp.)  I can write the code and be done before I've even figured
out what tell Allegro or Lucid about the C types involved.

There's documentation.

>  Interfacing C with CMUCL is usually quite easy 
> and basically consists of just slightly modifying the C function
> prototype into the appropriate Lisp style.

I should look again at CMU CL, especially now that there's a ?86
port.

-- jeff
From: Jeff Dalton
Subject: Re: Is GCL a decent CL system?
Date: 
Message-ID: <x2yawozdkc.fsf@gairsay.aiai.ed.ac.uk>
·······@mikemac.com (Mike McDonald) writes:

> In article <······················@news.giganews.com>,
> 	"Dan Higdon" <····@charybdis.com> writes:
> > Is GCL (Gnu Common Lisp, was Kyoto CL, I think) a decent
> > CL implementation?  I'm just getting Linux going on my system,
> > and I want a decent CL development system, preferably without
> > shelling out cash for a professional system.  :-)
> 
>   In my opinion, NO! Get CMUCL from cons.org for a PD
> version or get Franz's ACL for Linux from them for
> free. (www.franz.com)

GCL is fine for many purposes.  I have used it (in various forms --
it's derived from KCL/AKCL) since 1985, and I have had many other
CLs that I could use.  (At one point, there were 12.)

I don't always use GCL, and I'm not claiming it's the best CL;
but it's fine for many purposes.

-- jeff
From: Jeff Dalton
Subject: Re: Is GCL a decent CL system?
Date: 
Message-ID: <x2btthbxca.fsf@gairsay.aiai.ed.ac.uk>
Sam Steingold <···@usa.net> writes:

> It doesn't look like GCL is being developed any more.
> I had hard time compiling it under linux, and has since then abandoned 
> it in favor of clisp and acl.

I always feel that, if necessary, I can port GCL myself, especially
since I've done that a couple of times (for KCL) already.

Is clisp compiled to native code these days?  (My memory is that
it wasn't.)

-- jeff