Hi all,
First off -- is there any forum still active for Symbolics Genera users
specifically? Does anyone know?
Secondly -- I got my hands on an XL1200 with a copy of Genera 8.3
(purchased last summer from Symbolics Technologies), and just the other
day I tried to compile and load the CLOS implementation that came with
it. It failed in a variety of ways (most spectacularly, an infinite
recursion when trying to construct a class for type `T'). I presume the
code worked with an earlier version of Genera, but has rotted. Does
anyone out there have, or know of the existence of, a version of this
code that works under 8.3?
-- Scott
* * * * *
To use the email address, remove all occurrences of the letter "q".
In article <·················@ricoqchet.net>,
"Scott L. Burson" <·····@ricoqchet.net> writes:
> Hi all,
>
> First off -- is there any forum still active for Symbolics Genera users
> specifically? Does anyone know?
There's SLUG (····@ai.sri.com or some such).
> Secondly -- I got my hands on an XL1200 with a copy of Genera 8.3
> (purchased last summer from Symbolics Technologies), and just the other
> day I tried to compile and load the CLOS implementation that came with
> it. It failed in a variety of ways (most spectacularly, an infinite
> recursion when trying to construct a class for type `T'). I presume the
> code worked with an earlier version of Genera, but has rotted. Does
> anyone out there have, or know of the existence of, a version of this
> code that works under 8.3?
>
> -- Scott
Why are you trying to recompile CLOS? It's already in
the base world loads.
Mike McDonald
·······@mikemac.com
In article <·················@ricoqchet.net>,
Scott L. Burson <·····@ricoqchet.net> wrote:
>First off -- is there any forum still active for Symbolics Genera users
>specifically? Does anyone know?
Probably the ALU. The Association of Lisp Users replaced the Symbolics
Lisp Users Group years ago. Their newsgroup is comp.org.lisp-users, but
it's pretty dead.
>Secondly -- I got my hands on an XL1200 with a copy of Genera 8.3
>(purchased last summer from Symbolics Technologies), and just the other
>day I tried to compile and load the CLOS implementation that came with
>it. It failed in a variety of ways (most spectacularly, an infinite
>recursion when trying to construct a class for type `T'). I presume the
>code worked with an earlier version of Genera, but has rotted. Does
>anyone out there have, or know of the existence of, a version of this
>code that works under 8.3?
IIRC, CLOS was bundled into Genera. You shouldn't need to compile it.
You probably have to go through some hoops to bootstrap it, which is why
it's not working for you.
Kent will probably chime in with specific details.
--
Barry Margolin, ······@bbnplanet.com
GTE Internetworking, Powered by BBN, Cambridge, MA
*** DON'T SEND TECHNICAL QUESTIONS DIRECTLY TO ME, post them to newsgroups.
In article <·················@cam-news-reader1.bbnplanet.com>,
Barry Margolin <······@bbnplanet.com> writes:
> In article <·················@ricoqchet.net>,
> Scott L. Burson <·····@ricoqchet.net> wrote:
>>First off -- is there any forum still active for Symbolics Genera users
>>specifically? Does anyone know?
>
> Probably the ALU. The Association of Lisp Users replaced the Symbolics
> Lisp Users Group years ago. Their newsgroup is comp.org.lisp-users, but
> it's pretty dead.
I beg to differ, the ALU did not replace SLUG. At
least not in my mind. And I still get occasional Email
on the slug mailing list.
Mike McDonald
·······@mikemac.com
From: Kent M Pitman
Subject: Re: Any Genera users out there?/Genera 8.3 CLOS
Date:
Message-ID: <sfwn2dfagix.fsf@world.std.com>
·······@mikemac.com (Mike McDonald) writes:
> I beg to differ, the ALU did not replace SLUG. At
> least not in my mind. And I still get occasional Email
> on the slug mailing list.
Formally, the legal entity which was SLUG (a non-profit corporation)
was morphed the Association of Lisp Users (ALU). The SLUG e-mail list
(at ai.sri.com) didn't change to be an ALU list, though, so it
continues to be useful to Symbolics users. I imagine Barry knows this
and was just spacing out and forgetting the SLUG e-mail list. But
there is actually a good underlying reason for confusion on this point.
In article <···············@world.std.com>,
Kent M Pitman <······@world.std.com> writes:
> ·······@mikemac.com (Mike McDonald) writes:
>
>> I beg to differ, the ALU did not replace SLUG. At
>> least not in my mind. And I still get occasional Email
>> on the slug mailing list.
>
> Formally, the legal entity which was SLUG (a non-profit corporation)
> was morphed the Association of Lisp Users (ALU). The SLUG e-mail list
> (at ai.sri.com) didn't change to be an ALU list, though, so it
> continues to be useful to Symbolics users. I imagine Barry knows this
> and was just spacing out and forgetting the SLUG e-mail list. But
> there is actually a good underlying reason for confusion on this point.
I guess I'm confused too. I've been on the slug
mailing list for probably close to 15 years (maybe only
13) and I never knew there was a legal entity called
SLUG. Hmm, learn something new every day.
Mike McDonald
·······@mikemac.com
From: Kent M Pitman
Subject: Re: Any Genera users out there?/Genera 8.3 CLOS
Date:
Message-ID: <sfwzphhb7fh.fsf@world.std.com>
Barry Margolin <······@bbnplanet.com> writes:
> >Secondly -- I got my hands on an XL1200 with a copy of Genera 8.3
> >(purchased last summer from Symbolics Technologies), and just the other
> >day I tried to compile and load the CLOS implementation that came with
> >it. It failed in a variety of ways (most spectacularly, [...]
>
> Kent will probably chime in with specific details.
CLOS is part of Genera. You should NOT try to compile OR load it.
It is in-core already.
Genera comes with about 7 co-resident dialects of Lisp. In your file
attribute list, the Syntax controls which you're using:
-*- Mode: LISP; Syntax: Common-Lisp; Package: CL-USER; -*-
is the default. But the Common-Lisp is a "tolerant" implementation of CLTL1.
There is also a "strict" implementation of CLTL1 which can be gotten from
-*- Mode: LISP; Syntax: CLTL; Package: CL-USER -*-
Neither of these have CLOS in them because CLTL1 didn't. The Syntax named
Common-Lisp probably has DEFFLAVOR which is the class system most of the
Lisp Machine is built on. In CLOS terms, think of SI:VANILLA-FLAVOR as an
alternate metaclass that is a sibling of STRUCTURE-CLASS and STANDARD-CLASS.
From Genera 8.3 (and perhaps a other Genera 8 minor releases, I don't recall),
you can also get to:
-*- Mode: LISP; Syntax: ANSI-Common-Lisp; Package: CL-USER; -*-
Note that this package CL-USER in syntax ANSI-Common-Lisp is NOT the package
CL-USER you find in Syntax Common-Lisp.
Selecting Syntax Modes Interactively
In the editor, just put this at the top of your file (and maybe use
Meta-X Reparse Attribute List if the attribute list wasn't the same
when you read it into Zmacs) and the editor should respect the package
universe for the syntax you're in. There's also a Meta-X Set Lisp Syntax.
In the Lisp listener, you need to use the Set Lisp Context command.
There is also a Set Package command, but use the Set Lisp Context command
to get the right package FIRST or you will lose (finding the package for
the wrong syntax).
The wholine will defaultly say CL USER. The first word is the syntax name.
The second word is the package name. (WARNING: Beware of the combination
"ANSI-CL USER" since USER is not defined by ANSI-CL; USER and LISP are ways
to access CLTL1 while in ANSI-CL syntax. You want it to say "ANSI-CL CL-USER"
or you'll wonder where DEFCLASS went. Many users think erroneously that
USER and CL-USER are synonyms--sometimes they are, but don't rely on it.
This confuses people because "CL USER" and "CL CL-USER" ARE the same, and
you'll never see the latter since in the original CL days there was no
difference between the original stuff and future stuff.)
Of course, I work for Harlequin now, so none of the above is "official support"
and if you have problems you should ask Symbolics support, not Harlequin!
But since I did implement a lot of that separation stuff, I figured I'd
give a quick survey of what's there. Btw, this is all documented properly
and probably better than I explained it above.
Have fun.
From: Scott L. Burson
Subject: Re: Any Genera users out there?/Genera 8.3 CLOS
Date:
Message-ID: <353C4E9E.C6DC9D8@ricoqchet.net>
Kent M Pitman wrote:
> Genera comes with about 7 co-resident dialects of Lisp. In your file
> attribute list, the Syntax controls which you're using:
> [Lots of useful explanation snipped]
Thanks, Kent!
And thanks to others who responded as well.
-- Scott
* * * * *
To use the email address, remove all occurrences of the letter "q".
In article <·················@ricoqchet.net>, "Scott L. Burson"
<·····@ricoqchet.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> First off -- is there any forum still active for Symbolics Genera users
> specifically? Does anyone know?
news:info.slug
and
···········@ai.sri.com
--
http://www.lavielle.com/~joswig/