From: Michael Rounds, CADesign
Subject: Open Letter to Franz Inc.
Date:
Message-ID: <5dftg9$cqe@apollo.csd.net>
Dear Franz Inc.
I requested and recieved your Allegro CD Lite. Upon preparation for
installing the software a had a couple questions. Realizing that this
product is freeware and not supported, but you requested questions and
suggestions to improve your product, I emailed the following:
>2 questions (answers not found in the readme.txt files):
>
> How much HD space does a typical installation require?
>
> What version of Win32s is installed/required? I have installed 1.25.141.0,
> (for AutoCAD) and have had compatability problems with other versions. (I'm
> running Win3.11 on a 486/66 w/ 32mb RAM.)
The following was your response:
>Here are some answers to your questions:
>
> >2 questions (answers not found in the readme.txt files):
>
> I don't know which readme.txt he's referring to, but the answers are
>definitely in the readme.txt we provide:
>
> > How much HD space does a typical installation require?
>
> Lines 46, 52, and 59 of readme.txt.
>
> > What version of Win32s is installed/required?
>
> This is explicitly specified in the section on Win32s starting at
>line 67.
>
>If you would like information on our supported version, please let me know.
>
>Best Regards,
>Kristina Alvarez <········@Franz.COM>
This is B*** S***! If you don't want to support your product, fine.
But if your going to take the time to respond to some questions, at
least answer the f***ing questions. I'm a programmer, not an idiot.
If I cannot find the information in the readme.txt files, don't insult
me by quoting line numbers. Quoted below are the ONLY three
readme.txt files on the Allegro CL Lite CD. There is not a single
mention of hard drive space or win32s version.
To paraphrase you, I don't know which readme.txt she's referring to,
but the answers are definitely NOT in the readme.txt you provided!
There are three other files (D:\aclwin\read.me_, D:\aclwin\readme.ls_,
D:\aclwin\readme.tx_), that when installed, may become readme.txt
files. But how can I read them if the software is not installed yet?
I WAS looking forward to using my knowledge of AutoLISP and taking it
that next step. I HAD read good things about Franz in the
comp.lang.lisp newsgroup. Based on your attitude, I don't know why I
should even look or touch this or any other product by your company
again. Maybe Vill, VB or VC++ is the way to go....
Michael Rounds
______________________________________________________________________
Computer Aided Design Manager ·····@freenet.uchsc.edu
Hoover Berg Desmond, Architects ···@csd.net
Denver, Colorado, USA For true multitasking, try orienteering
-----8<---------------------------------------------------------------
D:\readme.txt, 1017, 7/26/96, 4:56:48pm
> Welcome to the Getting Started with Dynamic Objects CD!
>
> This CD contains Allegro CL Lite for Windows and an evaluation copy
> of Allegro CL for all major Unix platforms (Sun, Dec, SGI, HP, and
> IBM).
>
> To install Allegro CL Lite for Windows, please read the file named
> "readme.txt" in the "aclwin" subdirectory.
>
> To use the evaluation version of Allegro CL for Unix, please read
> the file named "README" in the "aclunix" subdirectory.
>
> Please note that these versions are not supported. However, we are
> very interested in improving this software and its installation
> procedures. Please feel free to send any comments, suggestions, or
> problems you may find to ····@franz.com.
>
>
> Allegro CL is a registered trademark of Franz Inc.
> Microsoft is a registered trademark.
> Windows is a trademark of Microsoft Corporation.
> Unix is a trademark of AT&T.
> Sun is a trademark of Sun Microsystems Inc.
>
> Other brand or product names are trademarks or registered trademarks
> of their respective owners.
-----8<---------------------------------------------------------------
D:\aclwin\readme.txt, 2256, 7/26/96, 3:34:42pm
> Welcome to Allegro CL Lite 3.0.1 for Windows!
>
> On this CD is the latest update to Allegro CL Lite 3.0.1 for
> Windows. Allegro CL Lite for Windows is a demonstration version of
> Allegro CL for Windows. Allegro CL Lite for Windows is deliberately
> limited (see below) so that applications can not be distributed with
> Allegro CL Lite for Windows. However, a full lisp environment is
> available as well as a complete and interactive online tutorial.
>
> This release is also available via the Franz Inc. Web page at
> http://www.franz.com.
>
> Please note that Franz Inc. is always improving this Lite Release.
> To see whether a more recent Lite Release is available, please check
> the top of the Franz Inc. Web page. If the "Last modified" date is
> later than 26 July 1996, then you can click on the "Download" icon to
> get instructions on how to retrieve the most recent Allegro CL Lite
> for Windows.
>
> This CD release also includes a directory called DOC\, which
> contains an online version of the Allegro CL for Windows Users Guide.
>
> Allegro CL Lite for Windows is just like the commercial Allegro CL
> for Windows release, except that it is purposely disabled in the
> following ways: A limited heap size, no foreign function support, no
> compile-file, no disassembler, and no image saving (save-image). The
> online documentation explains these capabilities.
>
> The contents of this distribution directory are as follows:
>
>
> * ALLEGRO\
>
> Contains the Allegro CL distribution. Run allegro\setup.exe for
> installation. (Under Windows 3.1, choose Run from the File menu and type
> [cd-rom drive]:\allegro\setup.exe. Under Windows 95, choose Run from the
> Start menu and type [cd-rom drive]:\allegro\setup.exe.)
>
> * DOC\
>
> Contains the Allegro CL User Guide in online form. Please read
> doc\readme.txt for full information.
>
> * WIN32S\
>
> Contains the Win32s system needed by Allegro CL for Windows on Windows 3.1
> or Windows for Workgroups platforms. Neither Windows 95 nor Windows NT
> requires Win32s. Run win32s\setup.exe for installation (Under Windows 3.1,
> choose Run from the File menu and type [cd-rom drive]:\win32s\setup.exe.
> Under Windows 95, choose Run from the Start menu and type [cd-rom
> drive]:\win32s\setup.exe.)
-----8<---------------------------------------------------------------
D:\aclwin\doc\readme.txt, 2840, 6/12/96, 5:38:08pm
> Allegro CL 3.0.1 for Windows Online Documentation
> =================================================
>
> Allegro CL 3.0.1 for Windows now comes with ALL documentation
> available online!
>
> Background: Allegro CL 3.0.1 for Windows has two sets of
> documentation, the Allegro.Hlp file (accessible via the Allegro CL
> "Help" menu) that is installed with Allegro CL 3.0.1 for Windows, and
> the "User Guide"s which come in book form(s) in the Allegro CL 3.0.1
> for Windows product package.
>
> The Allegro.Hlp file contains specific and detailed information
> about functions and features in Allegro CL 3.0.1 for Windows. The
> User Guides contain general information as well as the tutorial for
> the Interface Builder, and the guide for using Allegro Runtime
> (available with the "Professional Version" of Allegro CL for Windows).
>
> With the release of Allegro CL 3.0.1 for Windows, the User Guides
> are now available online and contained in the single file,
> "Allegro.Pdf". This file is readable with the "Adobe Acrobat Reader".
> You can install this reader for free on your hard disk.
>
> Unfortunately, many of the illustrations from the User Guides could
> not be captured in the Allegro.Pdf file. You will see blank spaces where
> pictures are meant to occur.
>
> Installation Notes
> ==================
>
> You can install the Adobe Acrobat Reader by running the program
> "Acroread.Exe" available in this directory. (Under Windows 3.1, choose
> Run from the File menu and type [cd-rom drive]:\doc\acroread.exe. Under
> Windows 95, choose Run from the Start menu and type [cd-rom
> drive]:\doc\acroread.exe.) This program will ask you a short series of
> questions and then install the reader into a directory of your choosing.
> Afterwards, you can run the installed reader and open the file
> "Allegro.Pdf" to display and navigate through the Allegro CL User Guide
> on your screen.
>
> You may choose to copy the Allegro.Pdf file onto your hard disk. As
> long as the file is accessible to the Adobe Acrobat Reader, it does
> not matter where Allegro.Pdf is installed.
>
> Further information about the Adobe Acrobat Reader is availabe in
> acroread.txt in this directory.
>
> Please note that Acroread is an Adobe product that we are
> redistributing as is. Please also note that at one point of the
> installation you are told to print out and send in a registration card
> to Adobe. Since Adobe did not make that card available to us for our
> redistribution, that card is not included with the release in this
> directory.
>
> If you have any questions about Adobe Acrobat Reader, please contact
> Adobe as specified in the Acroread.Txt file.
>
> If you have questions about the contents of the "Allegro.Pdf" file,
> please contact Franz Inc. at ·····@franz.com" or, by telephone at
> (510) 548-3600, or by Fax at (510) 548-8253.
-----8<---------------------------------------------------------------
In article <··········@apollo.csd.net> ·····@freenet.uchsc.edu (Michael Rounds, CADesign) writes:
Calm down. I know it's easy to get frustrated with some of the morons
in customer support organisations. But if we stopped using every
product that we ever once had bad support for, then we wouldn't get
very far.
Perhaps a polite response might yield the answer you want.
>> > How much HD space does a typical installation require?
>>
>> Lines 46, 52, and 59 of readme.txt.
>>
>> > What version of Win32s is installed/required?
>>
>> This is explicitly specified in the section on Win32s starting at
>>line 67.
>>Kristina Alvarez <········@Franz.COM>
>
>
>This is B*** S***! If you don't want to support your product, fine.
>But if your going to take the time to respond to some questions, at
>least answer the f***ing questions. I'm a programmer, not an idiot.
* Chris Bitmead -> Michael Rounds
| Calm down. I know it's easy to get frustrated with some of the morons in
| customer support organisations. But if we stopped using every product
| that we ever once had bad support for, then we wouldn't get very far.
when you think about how many morons call customer support, I think it is
safe to say that there is a lot of frustration all around. even so, the
_only_ gripe I have with Franz, Inc, is that it sometimes does take two
iterations to get past the "canned answer for dummies" stage, even with
what I think are obviously non-dummy questions. however, once past that
stage, they do treat their users really well.
maybe every customer support organization needs to make their people more
alert to the difference between a simple question from someone who does
include a trail of details and someone who asks vague questions, but it may
be prudent to consider that the first answer you get is from someone who is
trying to go through a lot of mail in a short time, and that you need to
make your questions stand out: touch base with them on a personal level,
compliment them in some way that turns off the depersonalized answers.
I don't do customer support for pay, but I have helped a lot of people on
the Net over the years, with SGML, with C/Unix stuff, with Emacs, with
Lisp, and I know that I remember the names of people who thank me, who say
something positive about the stuff they need help with, etc. I also know
that if somebody makes an effort to go into the class of "nameless whining
moron", there is _nothing_ to stop me from being harsh. actually, I think
people who don't do their homework before they ask questions should just
_go_away_, and it takes effort on my part to resist from communicating that
message. I guess this is why I don't do customer support for pay.
#\Erik
--
my other car is a cdr
Michael Rounds, CADesign <·····@freenet.uchsc.edu> writes:
>I requested and recieved your Allegro CD Lite. Upon preparation for
>installing the software a had a couple questions. Realizing that this
>product is freeware and not supported, but you requested questions and
I'm not sure what "Allegro CD Lite" is, but I just got, _absolutely free_, a CD
with the full version of Alegro CLOS for Linux in the mail. They didn't even
charge me for shipping.
>This is B*** S***! If you don't want to support your product, fine.
>But if your going to take the time to respond to some questions, at
>again. Maybe Vill, VB or VC++ is the way to go....
Have you tried getting support from MS even _after_ you paid lots of money for
their "product?"
>But if your going to take the time to respond to some questions, at
>least answer the f***ing questions. I'm a programmer, not an idiot.
If you're so pissed off at them, why don't you tell them instead of posting pro-
fanity here? Do you think it accomplishes anything? So you can say "fucking" on
the internet... wow.
With best wishes,
Ken