From: Bertrand Meyer
Subject: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <3g66i5$bmb@vienna.eiffel.com>
[This message describes the launching of a new journal, in French,
entirely devoted to object technology.]
Une nouvelle publication en langue francaise, la premiere a notre
connaissance a etre entierement consacree aux technologies objet, vient
d'etre creee:
L'OBJET
Logiciel, Reseaux, Bases de Donnees
Le premier numero sera disponible debut mars pour la conference
TOOLS (Versailles, 6-10 mars).
La revue est trimestrielle et parait les 1er mars, 1er juin, 1er
septembre et 1er decembre. Elle est consacree a tous les aspects des
technologies objets, couvre tous les domaines d'application (langages,
methodes, telecommunications, bases de donnees, finance, materiel,
intelligence artificielle etc.), et est ouverte a toutes les tendances
du domaine.
La revue contiendra des articles d'information technique ainsi que
des nouvelles d'interet general et des offres d'emploi. Elle se veut un
trait d'union entre tous les membres de la communaute "Objet".
A ce titre n'hesitez pas a nous envoyer toute annonce susceptible
d'interesser les lecteurs: publications, conferences, realisations
industrielles, theses, formations universitaires, seminaires ...
Redacteur en chef: Jean-Alain Hernandez (ENST Paris)
Directeur de la Publication: Jean-Marc Nerson (SOL, Paris)
Conseiller scientifique: Bertrand Meyer (ISE, Santa Barbara)
Patronage: AFCET (a confirmer)
Comite de Redaction (* = non confirme):
Jean Bezivin (Univ. de Nantes)
Pere Botella (Univ. Polyt. de Catalogne)
Fiorella De Cindio (Universita di Milano)
Pierre Desjardins (CITI, Laval - Quebec)
Jean-Marc Eber* (Societe generale)
Andre Flory (INSA)
Nasser Kettani (CR2A)
Sophie Gamerman (O2 Technology)
Hafedh Mili (Univ. du Quebec a Montreal)
Oscar Nierstrasz (Univ. de Berne)
Jean Francois Perrot* (Laforia)
Arnold Rochfeld (Consultant)
Philippe Stephan (CALFP/Credit Agricole)
Jean Bernard Stefani* (CNET)
Patrick Valduriez (Inria)
Jean Vaucher* (Univ. de Montreal)
Abonnement annuel: 95 F (France), 120 F (autres pays europeens),
150 F (autres pays).
Abonnements, offres d'emploi, publicite:
SOL
104 rue Castagnary
75015 Paris
Telephone 45 32 58 80, Telecopie 45 32 58 81,
Courrier electronique <······@eiffel.fr>
Pour soumettre des articles ou envoyer des informations a publier :
Jean-Alain Hernandez
ENST, 46 rue Barrault 75634 Paris Cedex 13
Courrier electronique <·········@enst.enst.fr>
--
Bertrand Meyer - ISE, Santa Barbara, California
805-685-1006, fax 805-685-6869, <········@eiffel.com>
Web home page: http://www.eiffel.com
ftp://eiffel.com
From: Jeffrey Fries P865
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <3gb2bi$20o@crchh327.bnr.ca>
········@vienna.eiffel.com (Bertrand Meyer) wrote:
>
>
> [This message describes the launching of a new journal, in French,
> entirely devoted to object technology.]
>
> Une nouvelle publication en langue francaise, la premiere a notre
> connaissance a etre entierement consacree aux technologies objet, vient
> d'etre creee:
>
> L'OBJET
> Logiciel, Reseaux, Bases de Donnees
>
> Le premier numero sera disponible debut mars pour la conference
> TOOLS (Versailles, 6-10 mars).
>
> La revue est trimestrielle et parait les 1er mars, 1er juin, 1er
> septembre et 1er decembre. Elle est consacree a tous les aspects des
> technologies objets, couvre tous les domaines d'application (langages,
> methodes, telecommunications, bases de donnees, finance, materiel,
> intelligence artificielle etc.), et est ouverte a toutes les tendances
> du domaine.
>
> La revue contiendra des articles d'information technique ainsi que
> des nouvelles d'interet general et des offres d'emploi. Elle se veut un
> trait d'union entre tous les membres de la communaute "Objet".
> A ce titre n'hesitez pas a nous envoyer toute annonce susceptible
> d'interesser les lecteurs: publications, conferences, realisations
> industrielles, theses, formations universitaires, seminaires ...
>
> Redacteur en chef: Jean-Alain Hernandez (ENST Paris)
> Directeur de la Publication: Jean-Marc Nerson (SOL, Paris)
> Conseiller scientifique: Bertrand Meyer (ISE, Santa Barbara)
> Patronage: AFCET (a confirmer)
> Comite de Redaction (* = non confirme):
>
> Jean Bezivin (Univ. de Nantes)
> Pere Botella (Univ. Polyt. de Catalogne)
> Fiorella De Cindio (Universita di Milano)
> Pierre Desjardins (CITI, Laval - Quebec)
> Jean-Marc Eber* (Societe generale)
> Andre Flory (INSA)
> Nasser Kettani (CR2A)
> Sophie Gamerman (O2 Technology)
> Hafedh Mili (Univ. du Quebec a Montreal)
> Oscar Nierstrasz (Univ. de Berne)
> Jean Francois Perrot* (Laforia)
> Arnold Rochfeld (Consultant)
> Philippe Stephan (CALFP/Credit Agricole)
> Jean Bernard Stefani* (CNET)
> Patrick Valduriez (Inria)
> Jean Vaucher* (Univ. de Montreal)
>
>
> Abonnement annuel: 95 F (France), 120 F (autres pays europeens),
> 150 F (autres pays).
>
> Abonnements, offres d'emploi, publicite:
> SOL
> 104 rue Castagnary
> 75015 Paris
> Telephone 45 32 58 80, Telecopie 45 32 58 81,
> Courrier electronique <······@eiffel.fr>
>
> Pour soumettre des articles ou envoyer des informations a publier :
> Jean-Alain Hernandez
> ENST, 46 rue Barrault 75634 Paris Cedex 13
> Courrier electronique <·········@enst.enst.fr>
> --
> Bertrand Meyer - ISE, Santa Barbara, California
> 805-685-1006, fax 805-685-6869, <········@eiffel.com>
> Web home page: http://www.eiffel.com
> ftp://eiffel.com
What did ya say ?
huh ?
From: David Taylor
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <davidt-3101951904510001@192.0.2.1>
In article <·····················@cyclone.ERE.UMontreal.CA>,
·······@cyclone.ERE.UMontreal.CA (Hinsen Konrad) wrote:
> In article <··········@crchh327.bnr.ca> Jeffrey Fries P865
<········@bnr.ca> writes:
>
> When in Rome....speak Italian....When in USA, speak English.
>
> Usenet has become quite international. It's not just the USA any more.
True. There is also the UK, Australia, Canada, etc. There are also a
number of non-native-English-speaking peoples who choose to use English
(not American, by the way) on Usenet so they can communicate their
ideas and questions to a global audience.
-- Dave
From: Andres L. Pacheco
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <3gms4q$n2v@ceylon.gte.com>
······@netcom.com (David Taylor) wrote:
>
> In article <·····················@cyclone.ERE.UMontreal.CA>,
> ·······@cyclone.ERE.UMontreal.CA (Hinsen Konrad) wrote:
>
> > In article <··········@crchh327.bnr.ca> Jeffrey Fries P865
> <········@bnr.ca> writes:
> >
> > When in Rome....speak Italian....When in USA, speak English.
> >
> > Usenet has become quite international. It's not just the USA any more.
>
> True. There is also the UK, Australia, Canada, etc. There are also a
> number of non-native-English-speaking peoples who choose to use English
> (not American, by the way) on Usenet so they can communicate their
> ideas and questions to a global audience.
>
> -- Dave
Hay tantas formas de rebatir ese argumento de "audiencia global",
que ni tiempo da para comenzar por la primera.
Digamos solamente que salidas como la respuesta al anuncio de
Bertrand Meyer no tienen cabida en este ambiente, el cual trata
de tildarse abierto a una audiencia mundial.
La prepotencia nunca ha sido considerada virtud por culturas
intelectualmente avanzadas.
Saludos poliglotas,
Andres.
PD. If you don't understand this message,
you can always find a translator --for a nominal fee!;-{)
From: Marco Antoniotti
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <MARCOXA.95Feb2082808@mosaic.nyu.edu>
Maybe we should all revert to more serious international languages,
like Latin or Sanscrit (the first being more economically feasable
since we would not have to reimplement the character set)
Carpe Diem!
Marcus Antoniottis
--
Marco Antoniotti - Resistente Umano
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robotics Lab | room: 1220 - tel. #: (212) 998 3370
Courant Institute NYU | e-mail: ·······@cs.nyu.edu
...e` la semplicita` che e` difficile a farsi.
...it is simplicity that is difficult to make.
Bertholdt Brecht
From: Robert Dewar
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <3gr9fc$foj@gnat.cs.nyu.edu>
We could of course adopt the most widely spoken artifical language (no
it is not Esperanto, but rather Klingon!)
However, I have just consulted my Klingon dictionary, and am shocked,
shocked to find no entry for Ada. No wonder their moon blew up! Probably
had its control software written in you know what!
From: Simon Brooke
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <D3tyyp.59J@rheged.dircon.co.uk>
In article <····················@mosaic.nyu.edu>,
Marco Antoniotti <·······@mosaic.nyu.edu> wrote:
>Maybe we should all revert to more serious international languages,
>like Latin or Sanscrit (the first being more economically feasable
>since we would not have to reimplement the character set)
>
>Carpe Diem!
>
Gin ye canna scrieve i Scots, fit for dae ye scrieve ava?
-- Yae thocht ae for th guid fowk o comp.lang.lisp
--
------- ·····@rheged.dircon.co.uk (Simon Brooke)
'there are no solutions, only precipitates'
From: Ron Ten-Hove
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <3gqv5m$7s9@itron.itron.com>
> In article <··········@crchh327.bnr.ca> Jeffrey Fries P865
<········@bnr.ca> writes:
>
> When in Rome....speak Italian....When in USA, speak English.
When in Canada, as you are, English *and* French are equally acceptable!
If you are one of those anti-Quebec bigots, please take your politics
to one of the appropriate usenet groups!
From: Allen Ethridge
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <3grd05$l1o@crchh327.bnr.ca>
·······@chip.itron.com (Ron Ten-Hove) wrote:
>
> > In article <··········@crchh327.bnr.ca> Jeffrey Fries P865
> <········@bnr.ca> writes:
> >
> > When in Rome....speak Italian....When in USA, speak English.
>
> When in Canada, as you are, English *and* French are equally acceptable!
> If you are one of those anti-Quebec bigots, please take your politics
> to one of the appropriate usenet groups!
>
>
No, he's not in Canada. He's in Texas. His gateway is in
Canada.
allen
In article <·······················@192.0.2.1> ······@netcom.com (David Taylor) writes:
True. There is also the UK, Australia, Canada, etc. There are also a
Don't forget that about one third of Canada's population speaks French.
number of non-native-English-speaking peoples who choose to use English
(not American, by the way) on Usenet so they can communicate their
ideas and questions to a global audience.
True. And there are others who choose to use another language to
communicate their ideas and questions to another part of the
global audience. With the growth of the Internet outside the USA,
the number of such people is bound to increase. Americans and
other English-speaking readers will have to get used to messages
in other languages on the net. They should see it as an opportunity
to widen their horizon rather than complain.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Konrad Hinsen | E-Mail: ·······@ere.umontreal.ca
Departement de Chimie | Tel.: +1-514-343-6111 ext. 3953
Universite de Montreal | Fax: +1-514-343-7586
C.P. 6128, succ. A | Deutsch/Esperanto/English/Nederlands/
Montreal (QC) H3C 3J7 | Francais (phase experimentale)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jeffrey Fries P865
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <3gogu2$6q6@crchh327.bnr.ca>
·······@cyclone.ERE.UMontreal.CA (Hinsen Konrad) wrote:
>
> In article <·······················@192.0.2.1> ······@netcom.com (David Taylor) writes:
>
> True. There is also the UK, Australia, Canada, etc. There are also a
>
> Don't forget that about one third of Canada's population speaks French.
>
> number of non-native-English-speaking peoples who choose to use English
> (not American, by the way) on Usenet so they can communicate their
> ideas and questions to a global audience.
>
> True. And there are others who choose to use another language to
> communicate their ideas and questions to another part of the
> global audience. With the growth of the Internet outside the USA,
> the number of such people is bound to increase. Americans and
> other English-speaking readers will have to get used to messages
> in other languages on the net. They should see it as an opportunity
> to widen their horizon rather than complain.
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Konrad Hinsen | E-Mail: ·······@ere.umontreal.ca
> Departement de Chimie | Tel.: +1-514-343-6111 ext. 3953
> Universite de Montreal | Fax: +1-514-343-7586
> C.P. 6128, succ. A | Deutsch/Esperanto/English/Nederlands/
> Montreal (QC) H3C 3J7 | Francais (phase experimentale)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
If I have offended anyone, please accept my sincerest apology.
I posted article were in jest and I believe now it was taken
the wrong way(I should have used those smiley faces).
Come on....there's already too much hate in the world.
-- Jeff Fries
From: Gaetan Corneau
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <gcorneau.48.000D3863@absolu.qc.ca>
> Americans and
>other English-speaking readers will have to get used to messages
>in other languages on the net. They should see it as an opportunity
>to widen their horizon rather than complain.
I suppose messages in the news should stay in english, so that they can be
read by everybody. But there is also the fact that the original message's
title was "L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology." It's
about a new journal in french: if you can't read the message because it's in
french, then I suppose the journal won't interest you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
GAETAN CORNEAU
Software designer
Absolu Technologies inc. Phone: (418) 650-5516
360 Franquet, suite 70 Fax: (418) 650-0860
Quebec Metro High Tech Park E-Mail: ········@absolu.qc.ca
Sainte-Foy, Quebec, G1P 4N3 Compuserve: 73062,····@compuserve.com
Canada
--------------------------------------------------------------------
It seems to me that the announcement of a new journal to be produced
in French does not stretch the bounds of propriety by being written
in French -- if you can't read French, well you won't be very
interested in the journal anyway. I've got no problem with the
posting being in French. Et de tout facon, je le lis. Au revoir.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"There are no misfortunes from which the adroit cannot take some
profit and no boon from which the imprudent cannot take some harm."
- LaRochefoucauld
·····@ssd.fsi.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
In article <·······················@192.0.2.1> ······@netcom.com (David Taylor) writes:
>In article <·····················@cyclone.ERE.UMontreal.CA>,
>·······@cyclone.ERE.UMontreal.CA (Hinsen Konrad) wrote:
>
>> In article <··········@crchh327.bnr.ca> Jeffrey Fries P865
><········@bnr.ca> writes:
>>
>> When in Rome....speak Italian....When in USA, speak English.
>>
>> Usenet has become quite international. It's not just the USA any more.
>
>True. There is also the UK, Australia, Canada, etc. There are also a
>number of non-native-English-speaking peoples who choose to use English
>(not American, by the way) on Usenet so they can communicate their
>ideas and questions to a global audience.
>
If all the non-native-English-speaking peoples would post in their own
language this would be the death to Usenet ... one should use the native
language in the "local" newsgroups in every country.
Usenet is now the ideal place for global information interchange ...
and we need one standard for this: one language.
I'm using my native language all days here in Germany, that's enough.
And: Usenet is international and the comp.*-hierarchy has nothing to do
with just US. It's becoming (or *is*) worldwide ...
Marten
--
Marten Feldtmann, 24143 Kiel, Germany, ······@toppoint.de
"Deutsche stellen eher die Nahrungsaufnahme ein,
als sich beim Urlaub oder Auto einzuschraenken" -- KN, 31.01.95
From: Markus Beckmann
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <3gqnrk$5ck@bambi.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE>
In article <······················@feki.toppoint.de>, ······@feki.toppoint.de (Marten Feldtmann) writes:
|> ...
|> If all the non-native-English-speaking peoples would post in their own
|> language this would be the death to Usenet ... one should use the native
|> language in the "local" newsgroups in every country.
|>
|> Usenet is now the ideal place for global information interchange ...
|> and we need one standard for this: one language.
|>
|> I'm using my native language all days here in Germany, that's enough.
|>
|> And: Usenet is international and the comp.*-hierarchy has nothing to do
|> with just US. It's becoming (or *is*) worldwide ...
But what is the appropriate newsgroup to reach the "object-community"
in Germany, France or ...? It's: comp.object !!! There is no "local"
group here in germany for that purpose (as far as I now). And usenet
news offers no posibility to "restrict" the distribution of articles
to countries or sets of countries.
+=========================================================+
: Markus A. Beckmann ! :
: Johannes Gutenberg-Universitaet ! Tel.: 06131/39-4358 :
: Institut fuer Informatik ! Fax : 06131/39-3534 :
: Postfach 39 80 ! i.-nat.: ++49 6131/ :
: D-55099 Mainz ! :
+---------------------------------------------------------+
: e-mail: ········@informatik.mathematik.uni-mainz.de :
+=========================================================+
In article <··········@bambi.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE> ········@Informatik.Mathematik.Uni-Mainz.DE (Markus Beckmann) writes:
>From: ········@Informatik.Mathematik.Uni-Mainz.DE (Markus Beckmann)
>Newsgroups: comp.object,comp.software-eng,comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.lang.eiffel,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.oberon,comp.lang.modula3,comp.lang.lisp,comp.lang.dylan,comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.objective-c,comp.lang.sather,comp.lang.clos,comp.databases.object
>Date: 2 Feb 1995 13:48:36 GMT
>Organization: Computer Science, Johannes Gutenberg-Universitaet
>
>In article <······················@feki.toppoint.de>, ······@feki.toppoint.de (Marten Feldtmann) writes:
>|> ...
>|> If all the non-native-English-speaking peoples would post in their own
>|> language this would be the death to Usenet ... one should use the native
>|> language in the "local" newsgroups in every country.
>|>
>|> Usenet is now the ideal place for global information interchange ...
>|> and we need one standard for this: one language.
>|>
>|> I'm using my native language all days here in Germany, that's enough.
>|>
>|> And: Usenet is international and the comp.*-hierarchy has nothing to do
>|> with just US. It's becoming (or *is*) worldwide ...
>
>But what is the appropriate newsgroup to reach the "object-community"
>in Germany, France or ...? It's: comp.object !!! There is no "local"
>group here in germany for that purpose (as far as I now). And usenet
>news offers no posibility to "restrict" the distribution of articles
>to countries or sets of countries.
>
Come on - do you know a German who is doing SW development and is
unable to communicate in English? Certainly my English isn't good,
but I never had any problems trying to express what I want to say
(well, perhaps nobody ever told me ;-)).
I've got no interest in posting in a language that I know is not
understood by most of the readers. comp.* is international, so
why not make use of it?
>+=========================================================+
>: Markus A. Beckmann ! :
>: Johannes Gutenberg-Universitaet ! Tel.: 06131/39-4358 :
>: Institut fuer Informatik ! Fax : 06131/39-3534 :
>: Postfach 39 80 ! i.-nat.: ++49 6131/ :
>: D-55099 Mainz ! :
>+---------------------------------------------------------+
>: e-mail: ········@informatik.mathematik.uni-mainz.de :
>+=========================================================+
--
Stefan Tilkov MLC Ratingen, Germany
··@mlc-ratingen.de
Phone +49 (0) 2102 8506 20
Fax +49 (0) 2102 8506 30
From: Markus Beckmann
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <3gsp26$81u@bambi.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE>
In article <···············@kirk.mlc-ratingen.de>, ··@kirk.mlc-ratingen.de (Stefan Tilkov) writes:
|> In article <··········@bambi.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE> ········@Informatik.Mathematik.Uni-Mainz.DE (Markus Beckmann) writes:
|>
|> >But what is the appropriate newsgroup to reach the "object-community"
|> >in Germany, France or ...? It's: comp.object !!! There is no "local"
|> >group here in germany for that purpose (as far as I now). And usenet
|> >news offers no posibility to "restrict" the distribution of articles
|> >to countries or sets of countries.
|> Come on - do you know a German who is doing SW development and is
|> unable to communicate in English? Certainly my English isn't good,
|> but I never had any problems trying to express what I want to say
|> (well, perhaps nobody ever told me ;-)).
|>
|> I've got no interest in posting in a language that I know is not
|> understood by most of the readers. comp.* is international, so
|> why not make use of it?
But if you want to announce an workshop on OOSE that will take place
in Germany (or France or Italy) or ... and the "conference" language
will be German (...) and it is addressed to people from ...
why write in English???
And the same with a magazine in French: why announce it in English?
If the "news-readers" do not understand the announcement they will
hardly understand the articles of that mag.
Oder liege ich da vollkommen falsch?
Markus
+=========================================================+
: Markus A. Beckmann ! :
: Johannes Gutenberg-Universitaet ! Tel.: 06131/39-4358 :
: Institut fuer Informatik ! Fax : 06131/39-3534 :
: Postfach 39 80 ! i.-nat.: ++49 6131/ :
: D-55099 Mainz ! :
+---------------------------------------------------------+
: e-mail: ········@informatik.mathematik.uni-mainz.de :
+=========================================================+
From: Markus Freericks
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <3h06di$iqe@news.cs.tu-berlin.de>
In article <··········@bambi.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE> ········@Informatik.Mathematik.Uni-Mainz.DE (Markus Beckmann) writes:
> But if you want to announce an workshop on OOSE that will take place
> in Germany (or France or Italy) or ... and the "conference" language
> will be German (...) and it is addressed to people from ...
> why write in English???
>
> And the same with a magazine in French: why announce it in English?
> If the "news-readers" do not understand the announcement they will
> hardly understand the articles of that mag.
>
> Oder liege ich da vollkommen falsch?
>
> Markus
Nein, tust Du nicht.
IMHO, the real question is: why would anyone create a new scientific
journal of presumed world-wide interest that is restricted in its language?
One can safely assume that both the audience and the authors of such a
journal can read and write English.
Since the vast amount of written material out there is written in some kind
of English, I have invested the time into learning the language. If
everyone would write in their own language, I coulnd't spare the time to
learn all those languages out there. A lingua france is necessary, and
English is a good choice since it is the first, second or third language
for almost everyone on this planet.
Markus
Markus Freericks ···@cs.tu-berlin.de +49-30-314-21390
TU Berlin Sekr. FR 2-2, Franklinstr. 28/29, D-10587 Berlin (Germany)
http://www.cs.tu-berlin.de/~mfx/ "Inertia makes the world go 'round."
In article <··········@news.cs.tu-berlin.de>, ···@cs.tu-berlin.de (Markus Freericks) writes:
> In article <··········@bambi.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE> ········@Informatik.Mathematik.Uni-Mainz.DE (Markus Beckmann) writes:
> > But if you want to announce an workshop on OOSE that will take place
> > in Germany (or France or Italy) or ... and the "conference" language
> > will be German (...) and it is addressed to people from ...
> > why write in English???
> > And the same with a magazine in French: why announce it in English?
> > If the "news-readers" do not understand the announcement they will
> > hardly understand the articles of that mag.
> > Oder liege ich da vollkommen falsch?
> Nein, tust Du nicht.
> IMHO, the real question is: why would anyone create a new scientific
> journal of presumed world-wide interest that is restricted in its language?
> One can safely assume that both the audience and the authors of such a
> journal can read and write English.
>
> Since the vast amount of written material out there is written in some kind
> of English, I have invested the time into learning the language. If
> everyone would write in their own language, I coulnd't spare the time to
> learn all those languages out there. A lingua france is necessary, and
> English is a good choice since it is the first, second or third language
> for almost everyone on this planet.
The vast majority of chemical engineers do not speak German, even though
German is the language of chemistry (or was, if I have my history right).
The pure sciences, with their limited communities, have retained the
tradition of a `universal' language, just as the Church retained Latin
through the middle ages and into the modern era.
Before Gutenberg and before widespread education, there was no way to
translate and reproduce books widely enough to pay for the translation
and the making of each copy. Since university education became widespread,
this has changed in the professions (especially engineering) but not in
the pure sciences.
As we go from `computer science' to something like a real engineering
discipline, it will become economical--and useful--to translate important
articles and to disseminate information in a variety of languages.
It's true that I, as a typical monolingual (unilingual?) American, will be
moderately put out to see things that I cannot make sense of--but that's my
problem, especially considering the advantage I already have in speaking
English from my earliest years.
--
(This man's opinions are his own.)
From mole-end Mark Terribile
···@mole-end.matawan.nj.us, Somewhere in Matawan, NJ
(Training and consulting in C, C++, UNIX, etc.)
From: Cameron Laird
Subject: The "Distribution:" field (was: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.)
Date:
Message-ID: <3h5s8c$duf@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>
In article <··········@bambi.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE>,
Markus Beckmann <········@Informatik.Mathematik.Uni-Mainz.DE> wrote:
.
.
.
>group here in germany for that purpose (as far as I now). And usenet
>news offers no posibility to "restrict" the distribution of articles
>to countries or sets of countries.
.
.
.
Paragraph "2.2.7. DISTRIBUTION", of "RFC1036: Standard for
Interchange of USENET Messages", available as
http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/Protocols/rfc1036/rfc1036.html
does indeed specify just such a mechanism. Its realization
has always been problematic. Apparently a minority of
posters are aware of it.
The distribution of this message is "world".
I've trimmed follow-ups severely.
--
Cameron Laird http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html
······@Neosoft.com +1 713 267 7966
······@litwin.com +1 713 996 8546
This discussion, as fascinating as it may be to a few of you, does not
belong on 14 technical newsgroups devoted to OO and programmming
languages. If you really must argue about points of net etiquette or
whether everyone should embrace English as the universal language on
the Internet, please take this to some more appropriate forum or do it
by E-mail among yourselves. Thank you. And Merci.
-- Scott
===========================================================================
Scott E. Fahlman Internet: ····@cs.cmu.edu
Principal Research Scientist Phone: 412 268-2575
School of Computer Science Fax: 412 268-5576
Carnegie Mellon University Latitude: 40:26:46 N
5000 Forbes Avenue Longitude: 79:56:55 W
Pittsburgh, PA 15213 Mood: :-)
===========================================================================
From: Cameron Laird
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <3gu7eu$5m3@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>
In article <······················@feki.toppoint.de>,
Marten Feldtmann <······@feki.toppoint.de> wrote:
.
.
.
> If all the non-native-English-speaking peoples would post in their own
>language this would be the death to Usenet ... one should use the native
.
.
.
So, did Joel's T-shirt company (or Pat Riley, or
Bill Gates, or any of the other usual suspects)
get around to registering "death to Usenet" as a
proprietary trademark?
Follow-ups trimmed by an octal order of magnitude.
--
Cameron Laird ftp://ftp.neosoft.com/pub/users/claird/home.html
······@Neosoft.com +1 713 267 7966
······@litwin.com +1 713 996 8546
From: Chris Saldanha
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <D3Av2J.FAr@cunews.carleton.ca>
Jeffrey Fries P865 (········@bnr.ca) wrote:
: When in Rome....speak Italian....When in USA, speak English.
: Rude...my butt!
I note that you work for a Canadian company.
Get real if you think that USENET is an American thing.
--Chris
Chris Saldanha | "Can I tell you what makes love
Carleton University (Comp. Sci) | so frightening?
········@mae.carleton.ca (NeXT/MIME) | Its that you don't own it.
http://www.mae.carleton.ca/~csaldanh | It owns you."
From: Jeffrey Fries P865
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <3goa43$5t4@crchh327.bnr.ca>
········@mae.carleton.ca (Chris Saldanha) wrote:
>
> Jeffrey Fries P865 (········@bnr.ca) wrote:
> : When in Rome....speak Italian....When in USA, speak English.
>
> : Rude...my butt!
>
> I note that you work for a Canadian company.
>
> Get real if you think that USENET is an American thing.
>
> --Chris
> Chris Saldanha | "Can I tell you what makes love
> Carleton University (Comp. Sci) | so frightening?
> ········@mae.carleton.ca (NeXT/MIME) | Its that you don't own it.
> http://www.mae.carleton.ca/~csaldanh | It owns you."
------------------------------------------------------------------
If I have offended anyone, please accept my sincerest apology.
It was not my intention.
I posted the original article in jest and I believe now it was taken
the wrong way.
Come on....there's already too much hate in the world.
-- Jeff Fries(Good Guys Wear Black; i.e. a Harley saying)
From: Gaetan Corneau
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <gcorneau.49.000EF127@absolu.qc.ca>
Jeff,
> I posted the original article in jest and I believe now it was taken
> the wrong way.
> Come on....there's already too much hate in the world.
Yes, and too much hate on the Net. Don't take it too personal: most people
don't always remember there are humans at the other end of the wire ;-)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
GAETAN CORNEAU
Software designer
Absolu Technologies inc. Phone: (418) 650-5516
360 Franquet, suite 70 Fax: (418) 650-0860
Quebec Metro High Tech Park E-Mail: ········@absolu.qc.ca
Sainte-Foy, Quebec, G1P 4N3 Compuserve: 73062,····@compuserve.com
Canada
--------------------------------------------------------------------
In article <··········@crchh327.bnr.ca> Jeffrey Fries P865 <········@bnr.ca> writes:
When in Rome....speak Italian....When in USA, speak English.
Rude...my butt!
But Mr. Fries, according to your address, you are not in the USA.
From: Allen Ethridge
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <3gonif$8v7@crchh327.bnr.ca>
·····@stratus.CAM.ORG (Kaveh Kardan) wrote:
>
> In article <··········@crchh327.bnr.ca> Jeffrey Fries P865 <········@bnr.ca> writes:
>
> When in Rome....speak Italian....When in USA, speak English.
>
> Rude...my butt!
>
> But Mr. Fries, according to your address, you are not in the USA.
>
His gateway is not in the U.S.A. Based on the article identifier
i'd assume he was in Texas, but that's only because i know how to
interpret the "crchh327" part.
allen
Gaetan Corneau (········@absolu.qc.ca) wrote:
: Et TOI, qu'as-tu dit? (And YOU, what did you say?)...
: Yes: not every people on the planet (or in the universe) speak english: real
: life is not like Star Trek! ;-)
While this is certainly true you can't expect other people to understand
French or Spanish or German or any other language. It is common to use
English when communicating over the Net. And I am very comfortable with
this since English is the easiest language compared to the above mentioned
ones.
I agree, though that B. Meyer's posting was essential and I think his choice of
language was appropriate.
: GAETAN CORNEAU
: Absolu Technologies inc. Phone: (418) 650-5516
: 360 Franquet, suite 70 Fax: (418) 650-0860
: Quebec Metro High Tech Park E-Mail: ········@absolu.qc.ca
I may understand your grudges against the English speaking part of Canada,
but please leave this discussion out of *here*.
Axel
--
Axel Eble Email: ·········@Informatik.Uni-Freiburg.DE
Institut fuer Informatik Fon: ++49 761 203 8184
Am Flughafen 17 Fax: ++49 761 203 8162
D-79110 Freiburg
From: Gaetan Corneau
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <gcorneau.50.000F01E2@absolu.qc.ca>
Axel,
>I may understand your grudges against the English speaking part of Canada,
>but please leave this discussion out of *here*.
I did: my point was (and still is) that the header of Mr. Meyer clearly
mentioned that the message was in french, so if you can't read it, how can the
journal be of any interest?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
GAETAN CORNEAU
Software designer
Absolu Technologies inc. Phone: (418) 650-5516
360 Franquet, suite 70 Fax: (418) 650-0860
Quebec Metro High Tech Park E-Mail: ········@absolu.qc.ca
Sainte-Foy, Quebec, G1P 4N3 Compuserve: 73062,····@compuserve.com
Canada
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ciaran McHale
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <1995Feb1.204503.1378@cs.tcd.ie>
Jeffrey Fries P865 <········@bnr.ca> writes:
>When in Rome....speak Italian....When in USA, speak English.
And when posting to announce a new journal that is in French, it seems
reasonable to word the posting in French and prefix it with a short note
in English to explain why the posting is in French.
That, by the way, is what Bertrand Meyer (the original poster) did.
Regards,
Ciaran.
--
---- Ciaran McHale (········@dsg.cs.tcd.ie)
\bi/ Dist. Systems Group, Department of Computer Science, Trinity College,
\/ Dublin 2, Ireland. Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-6772204
http://www.dsg.cs.tcd.ie:/dsg_people/cjmchale/cjmchale.html
In article <····················@cs.tcd.ie>, ········@cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran
McHale) wrote:
> Jeffrey Fries P865 <········@bnr.ca> writes:
> >When in Rome....speak Italian....When in USA, speak English.
>
> And when posting to announce a new journal that is in French, it seems
> reasonable to word the posting in French and prefix it with a short note
> in English to explain why the posting is in French.
>
> That, by the way, is what Bertrand Meyer (the original poster) did.
Not only I agree with that, but I add another message in French.
We all ought to understand that many people in many countries speak
Spanish or French.
Other languages are very less widely used (considering the number of countries).
It is of professional importance that information be broadcast to everybody
interested to know it. Therefore, conference or journal announces should
normally be given in the conference or journal language. Very few messages are
of this kind. Other talks shall of course be in English.
People who cannot read the language of announces may skip them if the
subject field makes explicit that it is not in English, and if a short
introductory note
summariSes (sorry, it's British, not American) the contents.
--
Michel Gauthier - Laboratoire d'informatique - 123 avenue Albert Thomas
F-87060 Limoges - fax +33()55457315
----- Are the messages that objects exchange also objects ? -----
From: Robert Dewar
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <3guv7j$l7t@gnat.cs.nyu.edu>
"People who cannot read the language of announces may skip them if the
subject field makes explicit that it is not in English, and if a short
introductory note
summariSes (sorry, it's British, not American) the contents."
Sorry, but the word in British English is summarize, the spelling summarise
is a common mistake (you also find Brits making this error, not only with
this word, but also with similar words, I have even seen finalise).
The spelling with z is the only allowed one. If you need an authority
other than me, try OED second edition, volume XVII, page 170. Interestingly
a number of the citations use the s spelling, but it is not even listed as
an acceptable alternative in the main heading.
From: John Daragon
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <791937422snz@argv.co.uk>
In article <··········@gnat.cs.nyu.edu> ·····@cs.nyu.edu "Robert Dewar" writes:
> Sorry, but the word in British English is summarize, the spelling summarise
> is a common mistake (you also find Brits making this error, not only with
> this word, but also with similar words, I have even seen finalise).
>
> The spelling with z is the only allowed one. If you need an authority
> other than me, try OED second edition, volume XVII, page 170. Interestingly
> a number of the citations use the s spelling, but it is not even listed as
> an acceptable alternative in the main heading.
I know this has NOTHING to do with software engineering, but as an
interesting diversion, the "-ise" suffix is recognised both by the OED (
in both the original Murray December 1900 and in vol V of the 1933)
and the Cambridge Proofreader's Guide (from memory) with a primary meaning
(OED) : "a frequent spelling of the -ize suffix forming verbs..."
It's my impression that the -ise form is distinctly more common on this
side of the pond. In fact I can remember using no other. Whaddya mean
_even_ seen finalise ? ;-)
jd.
--
John Daragon - argv[0] ltd voice: +44 (0)181 743 0999
26 Perryn Road, London W3 7NA, UK fax : +44 (0)181 749 2524
[that's ARG-VEE-ZERO...]
From: Robert Dewar
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <3h41bh$f4r@gnat.cs.nyu.edu>
WARNING: this thread has departed from relevance to its origins, delete now
if you demand relevance :-)
It is indeed true that the -ise suffix has been frequently used (in fact even
in OED II, the quotations nearly all, and I think in the case of summarize,
*all* use the -ise suffix).
Nevertheless the main entry for both finalize and summarize inclues only
the z spelling (and as you can see from the quote from the old OED, even
there the ise spelling is considered the variant).
Of course in practice it is silly to say that the -ise spelling is wrong (I
did my previous post for surprise value). I first found this view of the OED
when John Barnes asked me if OED II *permitted* the ize spelling (ATTENTION
ATTENTION, minor programming language relevance).
He was *quite* surprised by the answer :-)
What the OED II spelling does say however, is that contrary to the impression
of many British writers, and of the original poster, there is nothing wrong
or un-British about using the ize suffix, and when we talk of finalization
in Ada, we may as well stick to the -ize suffix, even in English writing,
lessening the chance that some poor British Ada programmer will try to
override the Finalise primitive subprogram of controlled types.
From: Igor Chudov
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <3h8uit$la4@gateway.wiltel.com>
Robert Dewar (·····@cs.nyu.edu) wrote in comp.lang.eiffel:
: It is indeed true that the -ise suffix has been frequently used (in fact even
: in OED II, the quotations nearly all, and I think in the case of summarize,
: *all* use the -ise suffix).
What does it have to do with comp.lang.eiffel, comp.lang.lisp or
comp.object? Now, let's stop it, it is not funny anymore. Pleeez...
- Igor.
french is a nice language, but lisp is it too. Please start on
to discuss on our lisp!
Johannes
From: Fazl Rahman
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <792098253snz@hadronic.demon.co.uk>
In article <··········@gnat.cs.nyu.edu> ·····@cs.nyu.edu "Robert Dewar" writes:
> [deletia]
> Sorry, but the word in British English is summarize, the spelling summarise
> is a common mistake (you also find Brits making this error, not only with
> this word, but also with similar words, I have even seen finalise).
>
> The spelling with z is the only allowed one. If you need an authority
Incorrect, see below.
> other than me, try OED second edition, volume XVII, page 170. Interestingly
> a number of the citations use the s spelling, but it is not even listed as
> an acceptable alternative in the main heading.
Chambers English Dictionary (Chambers: Edinburgh, New York, Toronto) (1992)
has the following two relevant entries:
finalise, -ize (to put the finishing touches to: to put an end to completely.)
summ'arise, -ize (to present in a summary or briefly.)
I note in both these cases the -ise form is given first priority.
Sorry to rain on your pronouncements :-)
--
Fazl Rahman |
····@hadronic.demon.co.uk |
(+44 or 0) 171 328 9080 |
1 Barrett Hse, NW6 6QG, UK |
From: Robert Dewar
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <3h8jt6$2lm@gnat.cs.nyu.edu>
Fazl: few people would consider Chambers to be an authority to the extent
that the OED is accepted. The OED is the nearest thing Britain has to an
"Academie Anglaise", I bet Chambers even permits the misuse of moot :-)
From: Jeffrey Fries P865
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <3gqto9$i3n@crchh327.bnr.ca>
········@cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) wrote:
>
> Jeffrey Fries P865 <········@bnr.ca> writes:
> >When in Rome....speak Italian....When in USA, speak English.
>
> And when posting to announce a new journal that is in French, it seems
> reasonable to word the posting in French and prefix it with a short note
> in English to explain why the posting is in French.
>
> That, by the way, is what Bertrand Meyer (the original poster) did.
>
>
> Regards,
> Ciaran.
> --
> ---- Ciaran McHale (········@dsg.cs.tcd.ie)
> \bi/ Dist. Systems Group, Department of Computer Science, Trinity College,
> \/ Dublin 2, Ireland. Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-6772204
> http://www.dsg.cs.tcd.ie:/dsg_people/cjmchale/cjmchale.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess you know by now that I did not mean to get anyone upset
with me on my initial post. I'm extremely sorry. I don't know what
else to say. I guess, I'm used to watching Star Trek where English
is the universal language. I understand that this is an international
conference. I should be shot for not knowing French.
Sincerest Apologies,
Jeff Fries
From: Robert Dewar
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <3gpieq$ptm@gnat.cs.nyu.edu>
Maybe he thinks that internet should do automatic translation of messages
when they cross international boundaries (darn, it where ARE those
universal translator chips when we need them?)
In article <··········@gnat.cs.nyu.edu>, ·····@cs.nyu.edu (Robert Dewar) wrote:
> Maybe he thinks that internet should do automatic translation of messages
> when they cross international boundaries (darn, it where ARE those
> universal translator chips when we need them?)
Peut-etre il pense que l'Internet doive traduire automatiquement les
messages quand ils traversent les frontieres internationales (chut, ou
SONT ces chips traduisants quand on en a besoin?)
[Thank you for requesting EITS. Unfortunately, all pathways to the EITS server
are overcongested. In lieu of the EITS server, your request has been
routed to a intermittently buggy beta-test version of the EITS server. We
therefore accept no liability for damages you may suffer due to any errors
in translation. We hope the results were satisfactory.]
From: Kai-hsu TAI
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <3gtnbu$eaf@netnews.ntu.edu.tw>
Richard Shu (···········@anderson.ucla.edu) wrote:
: In article <··········@gnat.cs.nyu.edu>, ·····@cs.nyu.edu (Robert Dewar) wrote:
: > Maybe he thinks that internet should do automatic translation of messages
: > when they cross international boundaries (darn, it where ARE those
: > universal translator chips when we need them?)
: Peut-etre il pense que l'Internet doive traduire automatiquement les
: messages quand ils traversent les frontieres internationales (chut, ou
: SONT ces chips traduisants quand on en a besoin?)
Ta dagai xiang dang xinxi yao kuaguo guoji bianjie de shihou, Jiwang yinggai
zuo yixie xinxi zidong fanyi (Qutamade, dang women xuyao zhexie tongyong
fanyi jingpian de shihou, ta me paodao NALI qule?)
Thank you for using the Experimental Internet Translation Service
(EITS). We hope the results are satisfactory.
Xiexie nin shiyong Shiyan Jiwang Fanyi Fuwu (Shijifanfu). Women xiwang
jieguo ling nin manyi.
From: Jens Bergstroem
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <3h2kct$83g@nic.lth.se>
In article <··········@netnews.ntu.edu.tw>, ········@cc.ntu.edu.tw (Kai-hsu TAI) writes:
>Richard Shu (···········@anderson.ucla.edu) wrote:
>: In article <··········@gnat.cs.nyu.edu>, ·····@cs.nyu.edu (Robert Dewar) wrote:
>: > Maybe he thinks that internet should do automatic translation of messages
>: > when they cross international boundaries (darn, it where ARE those
>: > universal translator chips when we need them?)
>: Peut-etre il pense que l'Internet doive traduire automatiquement les
>: messages quand ils traversent les frontieres internationales (chut, ou
>: SONT ces chips traduisants quand on en a besoin?)
>Ta dagai xiang dang xinxi yao kuaguo guoji bianjie de shihou, Jiwang yinggai
>zuo yixie xinxi zidong fanyi (Qutamade, dang women xuyao zhexie tongyong
>fanyi jingpian de shihou, ta me paodao NALI qule?)
Kanske tror han att Internet ska g�ra automatiska �vers�ttningar av meddelanden
n�r de korsar de internationella gr�nserna (f�rbaskat, var finns de
universella �vers�ttningschipsen n�r vi beh�ver dem?)
>
>Thank you for using the Experimental Internet Translation Service
>(EITS). We hope the results are satisfactory.
>
>Xiexie nin shiyong Shiyan Jiwang Fanyi Fuwu (Shijifanfu). Women xiwang
>jieguo ling nin manyi.
Jens
····@maths.lth.se (Jens Bergstroem):
:In article <··········@netnews.ntu.edu.tw>, ········@cc.ntu.edu.tw (Kai-hsu TAI) writes:
:>Richard Shu (···········@anderson.ucla.edu) wrote:
:>: In article <··········@gnat.cs.nyu.edu>, ·····@cs.nyu.edu (Robert Dewar) wrote:
:>: > Maybe he thinks that internet should do automatic translation of messages
:>: > when they cross international boundaries (darn, it where ARE those
:>: > universal translator chips when we need them?)
:>: Peut-etre il pense que l'Internet doive traduire automatiquement les
:>: messages quand ils traversent les frontieres internationales (chut, ou
:>: SONT ces chips traduisants quand on en a besoin?)
:>Ta dagai xiang dang xinxi yao kuaguo guoji bianjie de shihou, Jiwang yinggai
:>zuo yixie xinxi zidong fanyi (Qutamade, dang women xuyao zhexie tongyong
:>fanyi jingpian de shihou, ta me paodao NALI qule?)
:Kanske tror han att Internet ska g�ra automatiska �vers�ttningar av meddelanden
:n�r de korsar de internationella gr�nserna (f�rbaskat, var finns de
:universella �vers�ttningschipsen n�r vi beh�ver dem?)
:Jens
Ehk� h�nen mielest��n internetin pit�isi automaattisesti k��nt�� viestit
niiden ylitt�ess� kansainv�liset rajat (hitto, miss� OVAT
yleisp�tev�t k��nt�j�sirut nyt kun niit� tarvitsi?)
++jhi;
From: Vassili Bykov
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <3gpjdv$kau@stratus.CAM.ORG>
Jeffrey Fries P865 <········@bnr.ca> writes:
>········@absolu.qc.ca (Gaetan Corneau) wrote:
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>When in Rome....speak Italian....When in USA, speak English.
>Rude...my butt!
Sorry, but as a multi-lingual north-american, I almost feel like
apologizing for the air-headed "When in Rome" crack. Almost...
The writer of the comment was dis-lingual (aka someone who
doesn't speak the language very well.)
I am infact writing this reply on the machine of a Russian
collegue and I am French speaking. (Why you t'ink I type
wit' dis OUTRAGEOUS accent!)
Sorry to get off topic but Internet is NOT USA.
On topic, does anyont know of an OOP language which also implements
relationships between objects (a la CODASYL network model?)
Merci (mage de la schnoutte, creature ignare:-) - Charles-Andre
From: Peter Hinely
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <D3D54q.MwI@news.hawaii.edu>
In article <··········@stratus.CAM.ORG> ······@CAM.ORG (Vassili Bykov) writes:
>
>On topic, does anyont know of an OOP language which also implements
>relationships between objects (a la CODASYL network model?)
>
I don't if this is of interest, but the makers of the BETA programming
language are working on a OODBMS for BETA.
BETA is available for the mac and you can make real mac apps (although
they are bloated in size.)
Check out comp.lang.beta
or
http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~beta/info
Enough with the various arguments about the language newsgroup messages
are written in! By my count, this thread has generated almost two dozen
replys, all being crossposted to more than a dozen COMPUTER LANGUAGE
newsgroups, and all completely off topic for any of them!
If you want to continue with the thread, please take it to an appropriate
newsgroup.
Thank you.
----------------------------------------------
Dave Sawyer
Senior Systems Engineer
Education Access/Random Access, Inc.
----------------------------------------------
Warning: Opinions contained herein may contain
undetected deviations from the facts
----------------------------------------------
In article <··········@stratus.CAM.ORG> ······@CAM.ORG (Vassili Bykov) writes:
From: ······@CAM.ORG (Vassili Bykov)
Newsgroups: comp.object,comp.software-eng,comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.lang.eiffel,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.oberon,comp.lang.modula3,comp.lang.lisp,comp.lang.dylan,comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.objective-c,comp.lang.sather,comp.lang.clos,comp.databases.object
Date: 1 Feb 1995 22:26:55 -0500
Organization: Communications Accessibles Montreal, Quebec Canada
On topic, does anyont know of an OOP language which also implements
relationships between objects (a la CODASYL network model?)
I believe that AllegroStore, a CLOS-based OODB from Franz Inc., offers
:SET and :INVERSE slot options that provide a kind of relationship
model. What specific capabilities do you need?
--
Lawrence G. Mayka
AT&T Bell Laboratories
···@ieain.att.com
Standard disclaimer.
In article <··········@stratus.CAM.ORG> ······@CAM.ORG (Vassili Bykov) writes:
Borris> On topic, does anyont know of an OOP language which also
Borris> implements relationships between objects (a la CODASYL network
Borris> model?)
In article <················@polaris.ih.att.com> ···@polaris.ih.att.com (Lawrence G. Mayka) writes:
Larry> I believe that AllegroStore, a CLOS-based OODB from Franz Inc.,
Larry> offers :SET and :INVERSE slot options that provide a kind of
Larry> relationship model. What specific capabilities do you need?
Harlequin's KnowledgeWorks offers a Prolog that operates over CLOS
objects (contact: ······················@harlequin.com).
You also might want to "start from the other side" and re-ask your
question in in comp.object.logic. A number of Prolog implementations
offer OOP extensions.
Jason
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
| Jason Trenouth, | EMAIL: ·····@uk.co.harlequin |
| Harlequin Ltd, Barrington Hall, | TEL: (0223) 872522 |
| Barrington, Cambridge CB2 5RG, UK | FAX: (0223) 872519 |
In article (Dans l'article) <··········@crchh327.bnr.ca>, Jeffrey Fries
P865 <········@bnr.ca> wrote (�crivait)�:
> ········@absolu.qc.ca (Gaetan Corneau) wrote:
> >
> >
> > >> [This message describes the launching of a new journal, in French,
> > >> entirely devoted to object technology.]
> > >>
> > >> Une nouvelle publication en langue francaise, la premiere a notre
> > >> connaissance a etre entierement consacree aux technologies objet, vient
> > >> d'etre creee:
> >
> > Snip! Snip!
> >
> > >> Bertrand Meyer - ISE, Santa Barbara, California
> > >> 805-685-1006, fax 805-685-6869, <········@eiffel.com>
> > >> Web home page: http://www.eiffel.com
> > >> ftp://eiffel.com
> >
> >
> > >What did ya say ?
> >
> > >huh ?
> >
> > Et TOI, qu'as-tu dit? (And YOU, what did you say?)...
> >
> > Yes: not every people on the planet (or in the universe) speak
english: real
> > life is not like Star Trek! ;-)
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > GAETAN CORNEAU
> > Software designer
> >
> > Absolu Technologies inc. Phone: (418) 650-5516
> > 360 Franquet, suite 70 Fax: (418) 650-0860
> > Quebec Metro High Tech Park E-Mail: ········@absolu.qc.ca
> > Sainte-Foy, Quebec, G1P 4N3 Compuserve: 73062,····@compuserve.com
> > Canada
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> When in Rome....speak Italian....When in USA, speak English.
>
> Rude...my butt!
What makes you believe that we are all in the United States? And even so,
there are many people who don't speak English in the United States (or
very little English)... Spanish and Native American languages...
John
From: Igor Chudov
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <3gufir$57f@gateway.wiltel.com>
John A. Magdaleno (········@leland.stanford.edu) wrote in comp.lang.eiffel:
: >
: > When in Rome....speak Italian....When in USA, speak English.
: >
: > Rude...my butt!
: What makes you believe that we are all in the United States? And even so,
: there are many people who don't speak English in the United States (or
: very little English)... Spanish and Native American languages...
Nihongo mo ii go de, nihongo e kiite kudasaj. Furansu go ga dekimasen,
rosia go to nihongo go ga sukoshi dekimasu. Meeru san no tegami wa totemo
omoshiroi deshita.
Sayonara,
- Igor:)
From: Paul Floyd
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <3h5uel$egm@yama.mcc.ac.uk>
In <··········@gateway.wiltel.com>, ·······@wiltel.com (Igor Chudov) writes:
>John A. Magdaleno (········@leland.stanford.edu) wrote in comp.lang.eiffel:
>: > When in Rome....speak Italian....When in USA, speak English.
>: > Rude...my butt!
>: What makes you believe that we are all in the United States? And even so,
>: there are many people who don't speak English in the United States (or
>: very little English)... Spanish and Native American languages...
>Nihongo mo ii go de, nihongo e kiite kudasaj. Furansu go ga dekimasen,
>rosia go to nihongo go ga sukoshi dekimasu. Meeru san no tegami wa totemo
>omoshiroi deshita.
>Sayonara,
> - Igor:)
Merde alors!
My (only) comment is: please stop this. Has anyone noticed that this futile
thread is crossposted to about 20 groups!!!
--
Paul Floyd, Information Storage Research Group, Division of Electrical
Electrical Engineering, School of Engineering, University of Manchester
Edification - the process of changing your name to be "Edward"
····@meed47.ee.man.ac.uk http://meed47.ee.man.ac.uk/paul.html
·······@meehpc.ee.man.ac.uk ·······@fs1.ee.man.ac.uk
From: Andy Robinson
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <792110371snz@hps1.demon.co.uk>
> Nihongo mo ii go de, nihongo e kiite kudasaj. Furansu go ga dekimasen,
> rosia go to nihongo go ga sukoshi dekimasu. Meeru san no tegami wa totemo
> omoshiroi deshita.
>
> Sayonara,
>
> - Igor:)
>
Watashi ga shiritai no wa, nihongo de 'Object-oriented' wa nan to iimasu ka?
--
Andy Robinson
····@hps1.demon.co.uk
In article <··········@gateway.wiltel.com> ·······@wiltel.com (Igor Chudov) writes:
: What makes you believe that we are all in the United States? And even so,
: there are many people who don't speak English in the United States (or
: very little English)... Spanish and Native American languages...
Nihongo mo ii go de, nihongo e kiite kudasaj. Furansu go ga dekimasen,
rosia go to nihongo go ga sukoshi dekimasu. Meeru san no tegami wa totemo
omoshiroi deshita.
You are evading the central issue: You have to choose between EUC, JIS or
unicode! Your solution would shock the average japanese :)
--
<A HREF="http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/brochure/SW/c-goetze.html">cg</A>
In article <··········@crchh327.bnr.ca>, Jeffrey Fries P865
<········@bnr.ca> wrote:
> [...]
>
> When in Rome....speak Italian....When in USA, speak English.
... and when on the network, speak the relevant pidgin so as to be understood.
Honestly, it is generally the case, but sometimes it is not.
--
Michel Gauthier - Laboratoire d'informatique - 123 avenue Albert Thomas
F-87060 Limoges - fax +33()55457315
----- Are the messages that objects exchange also objects ? -----
>> >> [This message describes the launching of a new journal, in French,
>> >> entirely devoted to object technology.]
>> >>
>> >> Une nouvelle publication en langue francaise, la premiere a notre
>> >> connaissance a etre entierement consacree aux technologies objet, vient
>> >> d'etre creee:
>>
>> Snip! Snip!
>>
>> >> Bertrand Meyer - ISE, Santa Barbara, California
>> >> 805-685-1006, fax 805-685-6869, <········@eiffel.com>
>> >> Web home page: http://www.eiffel.com
>> >> ftp://eiffel.com
>>
>>
>> >What did ya say ?
>>
>> >huh ?
It is clearly explained at the start of the article that it is only relevant
to people who can speak French, and therefore putting the rest of the message
in French is certainly acceptable to me.
What I would object to however, is if somebody posted some message that
was relevant to us all in some obscure language (I don't mind French, German
or Spanish, but that's because I can speak all of them ;-)), without any
explanation in English.
As the predominant language on USENet is English, we should all stick to
using English wherever the topic is not limited in interest to only those
who speak some other language.
This is further reinforced by the fact that English is probably the most
widely spoken second language in the world (with Chinese being the most widely
spoken first language) AFAIK - ie many more people will be able to understand
you if you speak English.
If you do not speak English, I would expect you to find USENet unusable
because of the large proportion of posts in English, so I would therefore
expect EVERYBODY using news to understand a post in English.
--
/* Julian R Hall ·····@csv.warwick.ac.uk
Flames should be redirected to /dev/null - I don't know what
I'm saying myself so don't expect it to make sense all the time! */
>>> >> [This message describes the launching of a new journal, in French,
>>> >> entirely devoted to object technology.]
>>> >>
>>> >> Une nouvelle publication en langue francaise, la premiere a notre
>>> >> connaissance a etre entierement consacree aux technologies objet, vient
>>> >> d'etre creee:
>>>
>>> Snip! Snip!
>>>
>>> >> Bertrand Meyer - ISE, Santa Barbara, California
>>> >> 805-685-1006, fax 805-685-6869, <········@eiffel.com>
>>> >> Web home page: http://www.eiffel.com
>>> >> ftp://eiffel.com
>>>
>>>
Since we all seem to be in agreement that Internet is International.
Also, since by the year 2050, 50% of the U.S. population will have
Spanish as it's first language. It is clearly time that we take some
time to socialize standard Class names and Method selectors to
determine whether we have any major "faux pas" coming down the
road.
Does anyone know if anybody has done any research in this area?
For example, being born in the U.S. I assume that Integer and String
have translations in most languages. This is not necessarily the case
for class names such as, PanelViewButton.
There are several issues here. One is that if we develop a standard
set of Class names and Method selectors, then we do not want to choose
words that have no mapping in other languages.
Another issue is that we do not want to chose words that have a direct
translation in another language that could be obscene. For example,
what if PanelViewButton in German without translation means "peeping tom".
It may not be desirable for German programmers to be working with an
English system with everyone running around putting peeping toms in
their windows.
Class names, which are usually nouns, are a different problem than method
selectors, which are usually verbs. As many people involved in large
OO efforts have found, the slection and organization of method selectors
is very important. Consistent use of method selectors can improve reuse.
If we have a language where an English verb maps into 6 different verbs
then this may cut down on reuse. Also, we should consider the possibility
that a language may exist where verbs like print, printOn, printIt all map
to one verb.
Has anyone addressed these issues in other large bases of OO software?
Jim Fleming
···········@bytes.com
Naperville, IL
Tortola, British Virgin Islands
From: Olivo Miotto
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <olivo.13.000F79DA@iss.nus.sg>
In article <··········@cayenne.csv.warwick.ac.uk> ·····@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Jules) writes:
>If you do not speak English, I would expect you to find USENet unusable
>because of the large proportion of posts in English, so I would therefore
>expect EVERYBODY using news to understand a post in English.
Historically, it is so, but only because so far Internet has almost been
confined to the USA, and to an English-speaking audience. This is changing,
and we can certainly expect a lot more activity, especially in newsgroups
located outside English-speaking countries, taking place in foreign languages.
It is probably true that this will lead to a usage of Internet which is very
different from the current one.
And no, Internet is not unusable to those who cannot speak English, just more
limited.
Olivo
-----------------------------------------------------
Olivo Miotto (·····@iss.nus.sg)
Institute of Systems Science,
National University of Singapore,
Heng Mui Keng Terrace, Tel: +65-772 6644
Singapore 0511. Fax: +65-778 2571
From: Paul English
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <PAULE.95Feb7122322@merlin.noname>
In article <··········@gnat.cs.nyu.edu> ·····@cs.nyu.edu (Robert Dewar) writes:
>
> WARNING: this thread has departed from relevance to its origins, delete now
> if you demand relevance :-)
Still irrelevant... ;)
[discussion of what OED II says about -ise and -ize deleted]
> What the OED II spelling does say however, is that contrary to the impression
> of many British writers, and of the original poster, there is nothing wrong
> or un-British about using the ize suffix, and when we talk of finalization
> in Ada, we may as well stick to the -ize suffix, even in English writing,
> lessening the chance that some poor British Ada programmer will try to
> override the Finalise primitive subprogram of controlled types.
OK, now for the Australian perspective.
From the Macquarie Student Writers Guide:
---- begin quote ----
-ise/-ize:
Many words can be spelled with either -ise or -ize at the end. For
the sake of consistency, you should decide to use either -ise or -ize
in all such words.
In the past, people have sometimes argued for one spelling or the
other in a particular word because of its history. But the arguments
are never clear-cut, and it is simpler to spell all one way or the
other. Still, there are one or two points to note.
1. If you choose -ise, as Australian newspapers and most government
offices do, you can use it in every case except capsize. It is the
only exception.
2. If you choose -ize as most Americans and some Britons and
Australians do, you have to remember quite a large number of
exceptions. There can, for example, be no -ize in:
advise chastise comprise compromise
demise devise despise enterprise
exercise improvise revise surprise
supervise televise
Because there are so many words which must take -ise, it is easier to
use -ize everywhere.
---- end quote ----
So there you have it, depending on your perspective it is less a
matter of right and wrong, and more a matter of either efficiency or
laziness! ;) Now that's settled we return to your usual programming.
For the record the Australian dictionaries I use consistently prefer
-ise, although some give -ize as an acceptable alternative. My spell
checker will only accept -ise.
Cheers,
Paul.
--
,-_|\ | Paul English (·········@nepean.uws.edu.au) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
/ \ | Associate Lecturer | PO Box 10 | Ph: +61 47 36 0607
\_.--_/ <- | Department of Computing | Kingswood 2747 | Fax: +61 2 678 5570
v | UWS - Nepean | NSW, AUSTRALIA |
<a href=http://www.st.nepean.uws.edu.au/~paule>My WWW Home Page</a>
From: John Sullivan
Subject: Re: L'OBJET: A new journal (in French) on object technology.
Date:
Message-ID: <JSULLIVA.147.00099A35@fhcrc.org>
>[discussion of what OED II says about -ise and -ize deleted]
STOP IT! STOP IT! SHUT UP! NO MORE! JUST KNOCK IT THE HELL OFF!!