In article <······················@wyvern.via.mind.org> ·······@wyvern.via.mind.org (Paul Williams) writes:
> Is it possible for a private person to be able to afford a true-to-
> Gohd Lisp Machine? It it a pain in the rectum? How much is the
> least-expensive-but-most-compatible?
There are many used Lisp Machines available pretty cheaply ($1-5K),
although Symbolics charges a $10K license transfer fee for the system
software. And you'll need to install a 20-amp power circuit for it.
If you can afford a bit more, $20K will get you a MacIvory, which is a
Symbolics coprocessor for a Macintosh II.
--
Barry Margolin
System Manager, Thinking Machines Corp.
······@think.com {uunet,harvard}!think!barmar
In article <············@early-bird.think.com> ······@think.com (Barry Margolin) writes:
>In article <······················@wyvern.via.mind.org> ·······@wyvern.via.mind.org (Paul Williams) writes:
>> Is it possible for a private person to be able to afford a true-to-
>> Gohd Lisp Machine? It it a pain in the rectum? How much is the
>> least-expensive-but-most-compatible?
>
>There are many used Lisp Machines available pretty cheaply ($1-5K),
>although Symbolics charges a $10K license transfer fee for the system
>software. And you'll need to install a 20-amp power circuit for it.
Symbolics used to routinely drop the license transfer fee on 36xx machines,
so I assume they still do. I know people who have gotten entire used machines,
both from Symbolics AND from third parties, with the license transfer, for
under $5K. As far as I know, for the last several years Symbolics has only
been charging the transfer fee on Ivory machines, and might waive it even there
in the case of an individual or someone associated with a university. Play it
safe and, if you go through a third party, be sure that a legal license
transfer is WRITTEN in as part of the contract.
Also, if you are affiliated with a University and can get the machine through
them, Symbolics has great software pricing: $500 for almost any of their
software packages, no matter the normal price. Much of my work is for the
Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Lab, where we get those prices all the time.
Good luck-
- Marty
------------------------------------------------------
····@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu, ···········@jhunix.bitnet, ..uunet!aplcen!hall
Artificial Intelligence Lab, AAI Corp, PO Box 126, Hunt Valley, MD 21030
(setf (need-p 'disclaimer) NIL)
······@think.com (Barry Margolin) writes:
>In article <······················@wyvern.via.mind.org> ·······@wyvern.via.mind.org (Paul Williams) writes:
>> Is it possible for a private person to be able to afford a true-to-
>> Gohd Lisp Machine? It it a pain in the rectum? How much is the
>> least-expensive-but-most-compatible?
>There are many used Lisp Machines available pretty cheaply ($1-5K),
>although Symbolics charges a $10K license transfer fee for the system
>software. And you'll need to install a 20-amp power circuit for it.
Are you sure you'd need a 20-amp power circuit for a used 3620? Or
are there very few used '20's on the market?
>If you can afford a bit more, $20K will get you a MacIvory, which is a
>Symbolics coprocessor for a Macintosh II.
...and probably much faster than any of the used LispM's, unless
1200's have hit the used market.
In article <············@early-bird.think.com> ······@think.com (Barry
Margolin) writes:
If you can afford a bit more, $20K will get you a MacIvory, which
is a Symbolics coprocessor for a Macintosh II.
for a bit less, you can get a mac ii with macintosh common lisp and be
way ahead of the game.
for a more roll your own solution (with currently much worse user
interface and debugging), you can put cmu common lisp on a sun or
decstation.
> for a more roll your own solution (with currently much worse user
> interface and debugging), you can put cmu common lisp on a sun or
> decstation.
i was very excited to hear that cmu cl ran on decstations. but it turns
out that it runs on decstations which are running cmu mach. cmu cl needs
a full-blown mmap() which ultrix does not have. osf/1 will have it, and
the cmu folks said that they would probably do a port at some point in the
future. but for now, cmu cl will not run on the common decstation since
the common decstation runs ultrix (bsd) rather than mach or osf/1.
--
Paul Vixie, DEC Network Systems Lab
Palo Alto, California, USA "Ready, Fire, Aim"
<·····@pa.dec.com> decwrl!vixie
<····@vix.com> vixie!paul
In article <···················@cognition.pa.dec.com> ·····@pa.dec.com (Paul A Vixie) writes:
>i was very excited to hear that cmu cl ran on decstations. but it turns
>out that it runs on decstations which are running cmu mach. cmu cl needs
>a full-blown mmap() which ultrix does not have. osf/1 will have it, and
>the cmu folks said that they would probably do a port at some point in the
>future. but for now, cmu cl will not run on the common decstation since
>the common decstation runs ultrix (bsd) rather than mach or osf/1.
Hmm. But Isn't mach a freebie for the decstation? I'm thinking
that there are free ports of mach3.0 for dec/risk and 386 platforms,
it's the sun and vax ports that need a licence.
I wouldn't swear to it, but it sounds right. I'll also observe
that DEC is reselling traded in 2100s for $1400 (no disk), it's only
20Mhz or so, but it might do in a pinch.
DECStation 2100 $1400
8Mb memory from 3rd party $500
200Mb SCSI disk $400
MACH 3.0 free
CMU CL free
It'll run rings around a mac2, and you get a decent (19" mono) monitor to boot.
DICLAIMER: The prices are right, but I'm not sure about mach. Interested
parties should ftp out to mach.cmu.edu and look at the README files.
--
################################# :alex.
#Disclaimer: Anyone who agrees # Systems Programmer
#with me deserves what they get.# University of Maryland Baltimore County
################################# ····@umbc3.umbc.edu